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    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Gladstone:

    Silliest thread I have seen in ages. The curators versus the drivers, whether European or US. Quite entertaining.

    Do you drive it just to sell it before the warranty expires, or do you drive it until you kill it; or somethin inbetween?

    I drive it and I pay for it. If you have the luxury not to care about cost, lucky you. I still do care. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    My primary intent with the prior post was to try to "lighten" the tone on this thread. Like the Joker asked Batman "Why so serious?".

    As Jim pointed out, modifications will probably do nothing to invalidate a warranty in the US; However, 'track days' last I knew will invalidate a warranty immediately. So in a country which used to have a 55mph national speed limit and has recently gone as high as 75mph (except Montana and any other speed zones??)  do you risk your license or your warranty to have some real fun with a GT3?

    As far as spending money on driver training over car modifications, I would generally find that to be fine advice for the majority of the under 40 folks (not all). For the over 50 folks I recommend using the skills you have already aquired along with the visual acuity and reflexes that you still retain while you can. As for RC, I would like to place a large wager matching your driving skills against mine. However, nobody will think that I have given a fair effort when I bet on my opponent. (In other words, you have been overly modest lately in regards to driving)


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Gladstone:

     As for RC, I would like to place a large wager matching your driving skills against mine. However, nobody will think that I have given a fair effort when I bet on my opponent. (In other words, you have been overly modest lately in regards to driving)

    I'm not somebody bragging about my driving skills but since I run this forum for over 10 years now and many many people already know me personally, I think it would have been odd to run a sports car forum without proper driving skills. Smiley

    My recent "encounter", Panamera Turbo PK vs. 997 GT3 RS (driver was driving in the Alpenpokal a couple of times) left me with a grin on my face and the other one with a damaged rim. Smiley

    Give me a powerful AWD car and I do wonders. Smiley Not so talented with 2WD cars but I am learning (C63 AMG).

    Is that bragging good enough? Smiley Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    What an odd thread.heart

    Regarding the subject, if Savvy can get his price more power to him. I hope he does.


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    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    It is Nick.

    Too much hair pulling going on, bitch's..devil..


    --

    throt

    "I didn't do it"


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Savvy,

    to bring the discussion into another direction how did you like the individual modifications on the car? And what are you targeting next? Guess the logical step would be a Cup car...


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Ferdie:

    Savvy,

    to bring the discussion into another direction how did you like the individual modifications on the car? And what are you targeting next? Guess the logical step would be a Cup car...

    Ferdie, Everything pretty much turned out as I expected. Previous experience was having done a 2011 Boxster Spyder with MovIt's, Capristo valved system, Tarett suspension, Tech-1 forged wheels and Trofeos and a 2010 GT3RS with MovIt oversize rotors only, Akrapovic Evolution, Tech 1 forged wheels w/Hoosier R6 slicks, 4.0 clutch, welded coolant fittings, Tarett / Intrax suspension, Guard LSD and full Clubsport cage. So I had an excellent basis on which to decide how to do the 4.0.

    My goal was to maximize weight reduction so starting with a "stripper" spec 4.0, I shaved another approx 40 lbs of unsprung/rotating weight vs an OE steel brake spec car, and then another 55lbs of sprung weight. I do notice and very much enjoy the improved handling dynamics resulting from the weight reduction.

    After a track day I no longer have wheel vibration due to loss of wheel balance thanks to the knurled bead seats of the Rays wheels (tire don't rotate on rim). So those gave me great looks, increased strength, weight loss and keep my wheel balance. Obviously happy with that Smiley

    The Akrapovic with its 100 cell cats really accentuate the elastic nature of the 4.0 engine. Even though Porsche opened the stock exhaust with new 300 cell cats they were still a restriction. Also the quality of the port finishing on the Akrapovic headers was much smoother than the OE header which have a nasty flow interrupting  connection between the header flange and tube connections. No dyno, but no doubt in my mind the Akrapovic system really added power to the 4.0 along with massive weight reduction. The sound at WOT is of course glorious as anyone that has heard and Akrapovic system can testify to.

    The new brakes are of course heroic in their stopping power, but the beauty is in the ability to modulate for controlled trailbraking, consistent bite and pedal effort across the full range of temperatures or wet/dry. And no pad noise at all. It should go without saying it would be simply impossible to induce fade with even the most horribly abusive conditions. The pedal is rock hard 100% of the time, a contributing factor being the rigidity of the billet calipers. The OE Brembos are flexy and it can be felt in the pedal and show up in tapered pads. The one price to pay for F1 technology and true bombproof performance is that gravel can get between the wheel and caliper and scratch the barrel of the wheels as it works its way out. Purely cosmetic but a single downside.

    It is common knowledge (Carrera, where are you with that darn report?) 3.6's and 3.8's will kill OE LSD's in short order so it was a foregone conclusion that the 4.0 would kill the clutch pack in no time, so a proven-performance Guard LSD went in to get the power to the ground.

    Porsche did already install solid connections where it counted most: rear toe-control arms, bottom rear shock mounts, inboard rear LCA's, so no benefit in my mind, for my street car, to add more spherical ended bits and pieces. Handling and ride were already at a good compromise.

    Bottom line, I knew what I wanted to achieve, the ultimate drivers car, and was able to put a package together that wasn't hype and dreams, it was reality and performance. Increased reliability and handling dynamics. The car is now as Porsche would have built it were it not focused on producing marketing videos and being the most profitable car manufacturing company in the world.

    Next is a full-cage, track only car. Not a Cup- simply ridiculous operating cost per hour. Porsche has priced itself into the stratosphere and well beyond the value of the cars it manufactures. Parts and service costs are from 3-5 times those of comparable performing cars. Unless one simply enjoys lighting $1000 dollar bills on fire simply to watch the flames, there are many better choices than a Cup and more on the way over the next couple of years.


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    savvy:
    Porsche has priced itself into the stratosphere and well beyond the value of the cars it manufactures. Parts and service costs are from 3-5 times those of comparable performing cars. Unless one simply enjoys lighting $1000 dollar bills on fire simply to watch the flames, there are many better choices than a Cup and more on the way over the next couple of years.

    I kind of get the feeling that Porsche isn't for you... Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Clearly you know what you are talking about.Smiley

    Good luck on the sale of the car.


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    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    RC:
    savvy:
    Porsche has priced itself into the stratosphere and well beyond the value of the cars it manufactures. Parts and service costs are from 3-5 times those of comparable performing cars. Unless one simply enjoys lighting $1000 dollar bills on fire simply to watch the flames, there are many better choices than a Cup and more on the way over the next couple of years.

    I kind of get the feeling that Porsche isn't for you... Smiley Smiley

    He is the perfect guy for Porsche - where would be be if we be if everyone just blindly paid whatever Porsche asks for and did not question their prices, performance and longevity?  Do you think Porsche would be a better company if everyone just gave them cash without logical expectations?  If they can keep him as an interested customer then they are really trying, else they are just chasing the wallets of rich people who don't know any better.  Just my 2 cents.  GO Savvy - you do know what you are talking about.

     

     


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    I won't discuss the value of a Porsche with someone who uses all-season tires on his 911. Sorry. enlightened

    wink


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    Here in London, Porsche dealership labour costs per hour are the same as those for Mercedes, Audi, BMW and even VW.

    I agree that Porsche cars cost more to buy for the performance they provide (and there is a greater mark up) but buying a Porsche IMO is about more than hp per dollar calculations. It's about handling, feel, build quality, the depth of design/testing/engineering that goes into each model and many other intangibles. These things are easy to gloss over when comparing prices and performance figures but IMHO some people only realise what they are missing when they move to a rival marque.

    Parts costs are where IMO Porsche needs to become more affordable. Some of the prices are high compared to those for BMW, Audi, Mercedes etc. I can only assume this is because of the smaller volumes produced and the higher profit margins on spare parts.


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    RC:

    I won't discuss the value of a Porsche with someone who uses all-season tires on his 911. Sorry. enlightened

    wink

    Way to ENCOURAGE honest discussion!  RC you disappoint me.  You might as well not listen to me at all then and ban me from the forum since I don't agree with your un-founded opinion vs. my actual use of the tires.

    Your attacking my use of tires and belief that they work well for me is about as out there as Easy thinking I am concerned about Obama's birth place. Smiley

    My view of my ULTRA HIGH PERFORMANCE all season tires is based on a lifetime of Porsche ownership and a realistic understanding of what the car is used for here in the US.  Even if the N tires were to not cost 8X as much I would prefer the cold weather and wet handling ability of the tires I have.  We can agree to disagree but my opinion is based on having used and bought both for many years.  You have never tried the tires I speak of.  I trust the other members here can see there is a difference in our bias (or lack of it).

    I have put more miles on Porsches with N rated tires than you will do in your lifetime.  

    You clearly have some problem with the term all season or with my opinion after a lifetime of buying tires for Porsches.  To each his own.  Smiley


    Re: 997 GT3 4.0 - My dream car on eBay

    savvy:

    The new brakes are of course heroic in their stopping power, but the beauty is in the ability to modulate for controlled trailbraking, consistent bite and pedal effort across the full range of temperatures or wet/dry. And no pad noise at all. It should go without saying it would be simply impossible to induce fade with even the most horribly abusive conditions. The pedal is rock hard 100% of the time, a contributing factor being the rigidity of the billet calipers. The OE Brembos are flexy and it can be felt in the pedal and show up in tapered pads. [...]

    Next is a full-cage, track only car. Not a Cup- simply ridiculous operating cost per hour. Porsche has priced itself into the stratosphere and well beyond the value of the cars it manufactures. Parts and service costs are from 3-5 times those of comparable performing cars. Unless one simply enjoys lighting $1000 dollar bills on fire simply to watch the flames, there are many better choices than a Cup and more on the way over the next couple of years.


    Savvy,

    thanks a lot that you took the time and explained the process in detail. If I remember correctly, the OEM PCCBs have only a carbon-ceramic coating whereas some of the aftermarket offers such as the Movit variant are solid carbon-ceramic rotors? Why didn´t you go for Cup-spec steel brakes? Guess you felt the need to push the boundaries a bit.

    I have followed your reports on the GT3 RS, Spyder and GT2 RS but never really comprehended what was your main motivation to modify and subsequently sell these cars. Very curious to hear what comes next.

    Smiley


     
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