Crown

JimFlat6:

That is a terrific review.

For someone whose daily life is spent thinking and speaking in German, has a wife, children, a business to run with customers, employees and vendors needing attention, a internet forum to deal with, investments to watch, a trouble prone Porsche dealer and having had to get into close communication with the Porsche Factory about the lateness of a new car delivery etc... You have had a very busy time! How you find time to do it all is amazing. Impressive really.

To take time out to write up such a excellent review in English so soon with all of that you have going on is appreciated.

I fully agree with Jim's summary - fantastic effort from you Christian and very much appreciated..

Almost as good as I could have written it in German!   

One point - I notice your loaner has PDK buttons?  I presume your own car will revert to paddles..

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

Thanks RC! 

Does this loaner have the powerkit?  If you have driven a Panamera Turbo, can you compare it with one a powerkit?

So glad you are having fun! 

RC, amazing review. I do not think that there was a review about panamera better than yours. They were all lame. Can't wait for you to write a reciew comparing Pana Turbo vs Pana Turbo S.

One thing - if you take your cars to over 300mk/h stop complaining about consumtion :) it is insane speed to take a road car even on a straight stretch autobahn :)

Thank you so much for this wonderful, informative and competent report.
The Panamera is without any doubt the sportiest four-door car with AWD on the market.

I agree with you in all your findings as far as I can judge it. I had several Panamera Turbo at different times as a test car, each for 1-3 days.

Unfortunately, the Panamera has a downside as described by you also. Therefore I couldn’t decide to order a Panamera yet, but I have to explain this.

First of all, the Panamera is very distinctive and not suitable at least for my business. This of course is primarily a matter of personal opinion.

The fuel consumption is comparable much to high at least compared to the competitors.

The directness of the steering at high speeds requires a lot of attention, like you described.

The sound unfortunately isn’t as good as one might wish for, even without insulated glass.

The PDK isn’t perfect under all circumstances. I noticed even with my 997 Turbo S the slow response time in manual mode and even worse some hard kicks in certain situations.

The turbo lag is definitely noticeable and runs through the entire V8 engine range. Other car manufacturers (BMW V8 biturbo AMG V8 biturbo) solved this much better, their engines are recognizable more modern which is also reflected in reduced consumption. 

Last but not least there are a number of equipment issues which are so typical Porsche like.
Example is the steering wheel. If you want to have the steering wheel with function keys, you only get  the PDK buttons but no paddles. Why? That can’t be explained.
The handling of the navigation system and the small naviscreen is outdated, at least for me. A head up display isn’t available, although this of course is also a question of personal needs.

Not to mention a number of other electronic gadgets which are especially BMW- standard.

All in all, the Panamera is clearly showing his age and the upcoming facelift is not just a matter of optics, also a technical revision would be desirable at some points.

What remains is a sensational chassis, excellent traction and also the pure data ​​for speeding are unbeatable for a four-door sedan.

Of course on this point it must be allowed to think about the "normal" needs on a 4-door car. From my personal perspective, I need a powerful business car for everydays use, a typical DD.

This said it seems to be less relevant that the Panamera drives in tight bends with higher speeds than a M5. If you aren’t always in „race modus“ while driving your  daily business you will feel comfortable with a „slow M5“ as well.

Really useful on the other hand would be the RTTI (Real Time Traffic Info) from BMW, which for anyone who travels a lot, can be extremely valuable. Can you order this or something similar for Porsche? No, of course not. This isn’t currently available.

Finally:
the Panamera will cost 70.000, - € more than a fully-equipped BMW M5, without really to excel him in all aspects. Under the line, these are my ONLY PERSONAL reasons why I can’t decide to order a Panamera Turbo (S) yet. Of course each has its own requirements.
Overall the Panamera is a great car with a incredible handiness, this remains without any doubt. Those who own a Panamera have a lot of reasons to be very satisfied.

And especially your Panamera Turbo S is one of the best sportsedans in the world with a very exclusive appearance. I’m totally convinced you’ll have a lot of fun with it. 

Conny, this summons it up pretty well  but I really don't miss the driver assisting gadgets...well...maybe the HOLD function of my C63 AMG.

Today we were heading to the airport (I'm in Paris right now) at around 320 kph on the speedo. Car was fully loaded and you wouldn't believe how safe and stable it felt all the time. Amazing high speed stability, nothing I ever encountered from ANY Porsche I drove in the past. I got used to the sensitive steering at higher speeds. At 320 kph on the speedo, I was still able to talk to my wife, the noise level is bearable. 

Speaking of fully loaded: The trunk is good for two midsized trolleys, another one had to ride in the interior. Not really what we expected but I am getting the special Porsche trolleys, which (4 pieces) should fit quite nicely. I'm also glad I did not order the automatic rear trunk option. When it sensors only a little bit of resistance, it stops closing. I prefer the manual trunk.

Yes, this Turbo officially has the powerkit with 540 hp but since it is a factory test car and since it is amazingly fast, I doubt that this power figure is accurate. At 320 kph on the speedo, boost pressure shows 0.9 bar. Not sure if this is normal at that speed. Usually, boost pressures at Vmax are in the 0.6 bar range or so but I may be wrong.

My wife and kids are in love with this car, something not happening very often (they don't like the X5M much and hated the 997 Carrera GTS Cab). Of course this "hate" was based on some lame reasons but still...them loving the Panamera gives me a break...from all the bitching about the air in the car or the bad rear seats.

Only downside for ME (the size isn't really that much of an issue, you get used to it fast):  The "appearance" of the car. This is not a car for a small town folk  and the presence on the street is quite spectacular with the 20'' wheels, PCCB and the 911-like shape and look, especially from the rear. The white color of my loaner Is actually worse because the shape of the car is more obvious.

Everything else doesn't really matter, I finally found my family "911".

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Hi RC thank you for the review. Very very interesting to read it from someone who is highly experienced and knowledgeable about high performance cars .

I have a question:  after your first drives with the Panamera Turbo how do you compare it with the Cayenne Turbo on highspeed autobahn driving? Thank you.

997 Club Coupe, 72' 911 Targa 2.4 S, 12' Audi S4 Avant

RC:

The "appearance" of the car. This is not a car for a small town folk  and the presence on the street is quite spectacular with the 20'' wheels, PCCB and the 911-like shape and look, especially from the rear. The white color of my loaner Is actually worse because the shape of the car is more obvious.

Black will be much more discrete then the white and make the car less ' into your face' and softening the lines. There must be 2 or 3 black ones in my village, and they still look big, but do not look ' worst ' then a MB  class S

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Gnil:

RC:

The "appearance" of the car. This is not a car for a small town folk  and the presence on the street is quite spectacular with the 20'' wheels, PCCB and the 911-like shape and look, especially from the rear. The white color of my loaner Is actually worse because the shape of the car is more obvious.

Black will be much more discrete then the white and make the car less ' into your face' and softening the lines. There must be 2 or 3 black ones in my village, and they still look big, but do not look ' worst ' then a MB  class S

Funny thing is that nowadays the Mercedes S-Class is less showy than the Panamera.
S-class has more the appearance of wealth but with a stuffy touch. The Panamera is more provoking like "here I am and I'm very rich". Most of the people doesn't know that even a diesel engine is available for the Panamera. Just my opinion.

RC:. 

Speaking of fully loaded: The trunk is good for two midsized trolleys, another one had to ride in the interior. Not really what we expected but I am getting the special Porsche trolleys, which (4 pieces) should fit quite nicely. I'm also glad I did not order the automatic rear trunk option. When it sensors only a little bit of resistance, it stops closing. I prefer the manual trunk.".

Just as a hint: If you have the automatic tailgate you can at a resistance of course still close the door manually, as you would do so with the manual door anyway. 

Just little joking. I wish you and your family a nice holiday in Paris. Pics are always welcome...

In my U.S. locale, Panameras look surprisingly small since they are much lower than many cars...

RC - Great ride you have there. See it positively, you can try the limits with that car and you dont waste your own one with it 

Apparently, some so singing "VIPs" got their Panamera Turbo S delivered ("Graf" from the Band "Unheilig"). By the way he is a huge Porsche fan - owns 3 Porsche - "Bernd".... are you here on Rennteam?

He also owns a green Turbo(S)... and a black one, maybe a Cayenne or a GT-car.... ! :-) but I only heard bad stuff about the PZ Aachen, a lot of guys from this area are customers of our local PZ wich is around one hour away!

picture is from www.bild.de I think when the CayenneTurboS will be out he will get one too!

Lars997:

RC - Great ride you have there. See it positively, you can try the limits with that car and you dont waste your own one with it 

Apparently, some so singing "VIPs" got their Panamera Turbo S delivered ("Graf" from the Band "Unheilig"). By the way he is a huge Porsche fan - owns 3 Porsche - "Bernd".... are you here on Rennteam?

 

All Turbo S deliveries have been blocked until further notice (aprox. since mid/early end of May). So if he got his car earlier, which I think he did, he shouldn't necessarily be happy about it. 

My Turbo Powerkit loaner has been reserved for me until June 15th but I have no aprox. delivery date. My car has a priority notice "attached" to it, so I hope I will get it soon. The loaner is great but white is kind of flashy on this type of car and it lacks Burmester.

Stupid question: The are those 4 perfectly fitting Porsche suitcases for the Panamera trunk space. Does somebody, by any chance, have the size (height, width, length) of these suitcaes? I really don't want to spend 600 or 800 EUR for each, when I can get a Samsonite of the same size for 150 EUR or so.  The suitcases will be used for car travel only.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

m4ever:

Hi RC thank you for the review. Very very interesting to read it from someone who is highly experienced and knowledgeable about high performance cars .

I have a question:  after your first drives with the Panamera Turbo how do you compare it with the Cayenne Turbo on highspeed autobahn driving? Thank you.

Thank you. The Cayenne Turbo feels safe at Vmax (I remember I did 289 kph or so on the speedo) but the Panamera is different, it feels like on rails at 320 on the speedo, very impressive. Very safe feel but like I said, the steering could be a bit too light for beginners at that speed. The Panamera Turbo is somewhere between the  997 Turbo and the Cayenne Turbo but closer to the 997 Turbo because of the fantastic chassis and AWD setup. At higher speeds, the Panamera Turbo feels even better (safer) than the 997 Turbo, the car just  sits on the road as if it is glued to it, very safe drive feel. My wife and kids did not feel the speed, my wife was actually shocked how fast I was because she was talking to me and at one point, I told her that we are going 320 kph.  The loaner I have has the noise insulating glass, so maybe this is another reason why this car is so quiet at that speed but I ordered my Turbo S without it because I want to enjoy the exhaust/engine sound.

I was always and still are a "fan" of the Cayenne Turbo but the difference in performance from 0-200 kph between it and the Panamera Turbo S is 3-4 seconds according to various reviews and I cannot ignore that. Also in tight curves and turns, the Panamera really feels and handles like a 911, while the additional 200 kg of the Cayenne are felt always. Also my wife wanted to try something new after the two Cayenne (Turbo Powerkit and Turbo S) we owned but the latest Cayenne Turbo is really a very nice SUV. Only real downside of both, the Cayenne and the Panamera Turbo: The turbo lag is almost always noticeable, Sport Chrono package is a must have option (it improves throttle response, thus reducing the turbo lag feel under most circumstances).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Conny997:

RC:. 

Speaking of fully loaded: The trunk is good for two midsized trolleys, another one had to ride in the interior. Not really what we expected but I am getting the special Porsche trolleys, which (4 pieces) should fit quite nicely. I'm also glad I did not order the automatic rear trunk option. When it sensors only a little bit of resistance, it stops closing. I prefer the manual trunk.".

Just as a hint: If you have the automatic tailgate you can at a resistance of course still close the door manually, as you would do so with the manual door anyway. 
 

So what's the point of an automatic tailgate then?  Now I think you know why I didn't order it and yes, I closed it manually. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

John H:

JimFlat6:

That is a terrific review.

For someone whose daily life is spent thinking and speaking in German, has a wife, children, a business to run with customers, employees and vendors needing attention, a internet forum to deal with, investments to watch, a trouble prone Porsche dealer and having had to get into close communication with the Porsche Factory about the lateness of a new car delivery etc... You have had a very busy time! How you find time to do it all is amazing. Impressive really.

To take time out to write up such a excellent review in English so soon with all of that you have going on is appreciated.

I fully agree with Jim's summary - fantastic effort from you Christian and very much appreciated..

Almost as good as I could have written it in German!   

One point - I notice your loaner has PDK buttons?  I presume your own car will revert to paddles..

 

No, unfortunately no paddles. I really tried to get paddles with the carbon steering wheel but it isn't certified and Porsche won't do it.  This is my family car, so I won't use manual too often anyway but it would have been nice to have the paddles, I really hate the buttons.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

Stupid question: The are those 4 perfectly fitting Porsche suitcases for the Panamera trunk space. Does somebody, by any chance, have the size (height, width, length) of these suitcaes? I really don't want to spend 600 or 800 EUR for each, when I can get a Samsonite of the same size for 150 EUR or so.  The suitcases will be used for car travel only.

In the "Selection" catalogue there are all the luggage combinations (Aluframe, PTS trolleys etc)for each Porsche model. The dimensions for each size of luggage are there too.

--

"Form follows function"

Thanks. I got a PM with the right sizes, I guess I was too lazy to look it up. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Just to get this straight - you drive 320km/h with your wife and kids on board?!!!

dxpetrov:

Just to get this straight - you drive 320km/h with your wife and kids on board?!!!

I always drive at Vmax whenever possible and in this particular case, the Autobahn was quite empty (3 lanes).

This may sound crazy for certain countries but this really isn't something special over here.

I have certain high speed driving rules though, I am very anal about the tires (condition, pressure), brakes and I have a 175% vision sharpness which allows me to see if other drivers on the right are moving their heads or hands.

To make it short: This is nothing special for me...us. I am married almost 20 years and I've never driven differently.

I know who's car the loaner is, otherwise I wouldn't drive that fast with a loaner. I usually do not trust rentals or loaners because I don't know how the tires have been "treated". I also drive only that fast with cars which have a tire pressure monitor, this is something I learned from a Posche engineer. Tires never blow suddenly, they start loosing some pressure before they blow. Same goes to punctured (screws, etc.) tires, they always loose a little bit of pressure before they blow or loose air suddenly.

Of course there is always a risk but I'd say that it is safer to drive 320 kph with me than 200 kph with most drivers out there. You should see how some drivers take curves at 200 kph or even at lower speeds, I always get goosebumps.

Btw: The Autobahn is the safest road in Germany.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

Lars997:

RC - Great ride you have there. See it positively, you can try the limits with that car and you dont waste your own one with it 

Apparently, some so singing "VIPs" got their Panamera Turbo S delivered ("Graf" from the Band "Unheilig"). By the way he is a huge Porsche fan - owns 3 Porsche - "Bernd".... are you here on Rennteam?

 

All Turbo S deliveries have been blocked until further notice (aprox. since mid/early end of May). So if he got his car earlier, which I think he did, he shouldn't necessarily be happy about it. 

My Turbo Powerkit loaner has been reserved for me until June 15th but I have no aprox. delivery date. My car has a priority notice "attached" to it, so I hope I will get it soon. The loaner is great but white is kind of flashy on this type of car and it lacks Burmester.

Stupid question: The are those 4 perfectly fitting Porsche suitcases for the Panamera trunk space. Does somebody, by any chance, have the size (height, width, length) of these suitcaes? I really don't want to spend 600 or 800 EUR for each, when I can get a Samsonite of the same size for 150 EUR or so.  The suitcases will be used for car travel only.

Hi,

the size you can get by looking at the Tequipment online shop. The suitcases are made by Rimowa. They are not standard. In mine I can put three middle Rimowas and two smaller one .

    3 x     63 L    892.63               51/2011 Limbo Sealgrau 63 Liter

     2 x     30 L    892.52              05/2012 Limbo Sealgrau 30 Liter IATA

AM
www.aldo-yachting.de

RC:

m4ever:

Hi RC thank you for the review. Very very interesting to read it from someone who is highly experienced and knowledgeable about high performance cars .

I have a question:  after your first drives with the Panamera Turbo how do you compare it with the Cayenne Turbo on highspeed autobahn driving? Thank you.

Thank you. The Cayenne Turbo feels safe at Vmax (I remember I did 289 kph or so on the speedo) but the Panamera is different, it feels like on rails at 320 on the speedo, very impressive. Very safe feel but like I said, the steering could be a bit too light for beginners at that speed. The Panamera Turbo is somewhere between the  997 Turbo and the Cayenne Turbo but closer to the 997 Turbo because of the fantastic chassis and AWD setup. At higher speeds, the Panamera Turbo feels even better (safer) than the 997 Turbo, the car just  sits on the road as if it is glued to it, very safe drive feel. My wife and kids did not feel the speed, my wife was actually shocked how fast I was because she was talking to me and at one point, I told her that we are going 320 kph.  The loaner I have has the noise insulating glass, so maybe this is another reason why this car is so quiet at that speed but I ordered my Turbo S without it because I want to enjoy the exhaust/engine sound.

I was always and still are a "fan" of the Cayenne Turbo but the difference in performance from 0-200 kph between it and the Panamera Turbo S is 3-4 seconds according to various reviews and I cannot ignore that. Also in tight curves and turns, the Panamera really feels and handles like a 911, while the additional 200 kg of the Cayenne are felt always. Also my wife wanted to try something new after the two Cayenne (Turbo Powerkit and Turbo S) we owned but the latest Cayenne Turbo is really a very nice SUV. Only real downside of both, the Cayenne and the Panamera Turbo: The turbo lag is almost always noticeable, Sport Chrono package is a must have option (it improves throttle response, thus reducing the turbo lag feel under most circumstances).

Thank you for your reply RC. I am getting more and more tempted by the Panamera and your reviews contributes to it! There is just the "social acceptance" issue of this car (I believe it is not only a German peculiarity);  it is a remarkably visible car and on this front the latest Cayenne might be the more "sensible" choice (and there are plenty of them on the roads which is not bad).

911 Club Coupe, 72' 911 Targa 2.4 S, 12' Audi S4 Avant

Even with brand new tires on a deserted track, I would never drive v-max speeds with kids on board. 

To each their own, I suppose. 

I wish you save trips!

spudgun:

Even with brand new tires on a deserted track, I would never drive v-max speeds with kids on board. 

To each their own, I suppose. 

I wish you save trips!

 

Just out of curiosity: Why not? 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

You're amazed why someone wouldn't drive 320 km/h with kids onboard?

ALDO:

the size you can get by looking at the Tequipment online shop. The suitcases are made by Rimowa. They are not standard. In mine I can put three middle Rimowas and two smaller one .

 

    3 x     63 L    892.63               51/2011 Limbo Sealgrau 63 Liter

     2 x     30 L    892.52              05/2012 Limbo Sealgrau 30 Liter IATA

Best regards

 

Thank you, Adnan. 

The thing is: They are pretty expensive and I really would use these luggage pieces for the Panamera only. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

spudgun:

You're amazed why someone wouldn't drive 320 km/h with kids onboard?

I am actually wondering why someone would wonder? 

With kids onboard, would 200 kph will be more appropriate? Or 150? Or 100? Just curious.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

spudgun:

You're amazed why someone wouldn't drive 320 km/h with kids onboard?

I am actually wondering why someone would wonder?   With kids onboard, would 200 kph will be more appropriate? Or 150? Or 100? Just curious.

I'm with Spudgun on this, as I'm sure most people on the forum would be wondering.  Yes, it would be more appropriate to drive slower with your kids on board IMO, as the risk of killing them along with yourself is completly eliminated.  (Sadly we're ignoring other peoples' kids). 

What speed would be less risky?  Any speed reduction would be (down to about 130kms, which is the recommended speed, or perhaps 150km, which is perhaps the averave).  I don't know, but if you are travelling "significantly" faster than other cars that you are negotiating, then the risk is elevated - as you say yourself...

At 320, if you are overtaking cars travelling at 160km/hr, it's ecquivalent to them being stationary with you travelling at 160km.  Approaching at a differential of about 22 metres per second, it would be a challenge to see their hands move.  Many drivers are completely inexperienced at judging an approaching car at that speed differential, and might think they have time to pass another car before you bear down. 

You did point out that the autbahn was relatively empty (I presume at 4am it would be almost completely empty), but your observation about watching other drivers' hands suggested to me that you would be negotiating at least some traffic?

Apart from the risk, with even the greatest kids in the world being at an impressionable stage, I wouldn't display this kind of speed to my kids.  But as spudgun says, each to his own.

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

Despite the fact that the average traffic travels at speeds between 140 and 180 kph over here when traffic isn't really dense and people are used to higher speeds, there is of course always a risk involved. Like that crazy guy who suddenly moved from the far right lane over three other lanes to the left lane where I was traveling at 290 or so on the speedo in my X5M. Due to a proper reaction, a good car and good eyes, nothing happened but this was actually the only really risky incident in my high speed driving experience.

I never drive that speed when more than one car is on the right lane, the danger of someone suddenly moving to my lane is just too big. I also drive with my lights on, my car is clearly visible from a greater distance and of course I do not pass other cars at 320 kph, this would be too dangerous but when there is no car on the right lane... 

I am also very careful when I pass cars with non-german license plates, some of them are used to these speeds and better to be safe than sorry.

For me, driving at these speeds is nothing special but I can see how others have issues or concerns with that.

Btw: 99% of the high speed Autobahn accidents over here happen because the driver hits something (not being hit by something) or because of a blown tire or any other technical issue.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4