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    LMP1, LMP2, ALMS, GT1, GT3, GTE, WES..?!

    Can someone please explain how all this works..?  Which series are the dominant ones etc...?  It seems to be more in-unified than boxing..!

    As I understand it, World Endurance Series combines all the 6 and 24 hour classics, and LMP1, 2 and GT class cars compete.  But is that GT1 and GT3?  And what's GTE..?

    Is ALMS aligned, or completely separate to the European series..?

    Where do hybrids fit in..?

    What is the definitive sites to look at the series'..?  The FIA sites are rubbish and appear to be out of date and horribly un-helpful...

    The various series on,y appear to have about 6 or 7 races per season...  Why so?

    It seems that the FIA are keeping sportscar racing at bay, to protect F1 perhaps..?

     

     


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: LMP1, LMP2, ALMS, GT1, GT3, GTE, WES..?!

    Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but the way I understand it as such:

    ACO (24 Hrs LeMans), FIA, and ALMS are all separate organizing and sanctioning bodies. They do however have various mutually agreed up rules and regulations, but not all of them are the same.

    LMP1 is the top marque in all organizations. These are essentially your manufacturer backed, cutting edge prototypes. For all intents and purposes, consider them fully bodied F1 cars.

    LMP2 gets a little hazier. In some series this is resign for independent teams. Horsepower is lower. Tires are smaller. Sometimes they'll have a few authorized chassis manufacturers and engine packages you can use.

    LMPC is a completely spec'd class for LMP2. NASCAR for prototypes.

    GT (ne. GT1) used to be called GT1. Again, consider these heavily manufactured backed independents or factory works teams. The cars they race are silhouette in nature. Engines are not factory based (maybe the blocks are), but the position is different, transmission changed, etc. etc.

    GT3 is a bit more production based. This is where you could actually buy a car from the manufacturer and go racing with it. The Porsche GT3RSR would be in this class.

    Not sure what GTE is.

    WES is some kind of joint endurance racing venture between ACO and FIA.

     


    Re: LMP1, LMP2, ALMS, GT1, GT3, GTE, WES..?!

    Porsche GT3 RSR is not a GT3. GT3 R is.


    Re: LMP1, LMP2, ALMS, GT1, GT3, GTE, WES..?!

    Enzo II:

    Porsche GT3 RSR is not a GT3. GT3 R is.

    I have not kept up with changes in the GT car racing categories in recent years, but I suspect that what you wanted to   say was that the current Porsche racing car referred to as the GT3RSR runs in the current GT2 racing category, whereas in earlier times that car's predecessor, the Porsche GT3R, really did run in the GT3 racing class. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: LMP1, LMP2, ALMS, GT1, GT3, GTE, WES..?!

    Yes, thanks, that is what I wanted to say


    Re: LMP1, LMP2, ALMS, GT1, GT3, GTE, WES..?!

    Damn, i just put together a long reply with all the websites, etc, but lost the entire thing when I tried to post it.  Too late now to do it all over again - will try again tomorrow if I get a chance.  Smiley


    Re: LMP1, LMP2, ALMS, GT1, GT3, GTE, WES..?!

    A lot of people have been losing post on here when they hit send. This board has some rather weird quirks. As a precaution, I have gotten into the habit of hitting Ctrl+A then Ctrl+C and copying everything before I hit send.

    I think (my opinion, please don't take offense owners & mods) that it may be time to jettison whatever software you're using to run the forum and maybe try something with more support such as VBulletin.


    Re: LMP1, LMP2, ALMS, GT1, GT3, GTE, WES..?!

    fritz:
    Enzo II:

    Porsche GT3 RSR is not a GT3. GT3 R is.

    I have not kept up with changes in the GT car racing categories in recent years, but I suspect that what you wanted to   say was that the current Porsche racing car referred to as the GT3RSR runs in the current GT2 racing category, whereas in earlier times that car's predecessor, the Porsche GT3R, really did run in the GT3 racing class. 

     

    See, even I get confused. It's a mess. GT2/GT3 doesn't even exist in ALMS anymore. There's only GTC - which is Porsche spec series using Cup cars based on the GT3 RS. Smiley


    Re: LMP1, LMP2, ALMS, GT1, GT3, GTE, WES..?!

    The most knowledgeable person on the topic must be spyderidol. Please enlighten!


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: LMP1, LMP2, ALMS, GT1, GT3, GTE, WES..?!

    And I thought it was a stupid question..!


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: LMP1, LMP2, ALMS, GT1, GT3, GTE, WES..?!

    WEC (FIA World Endurance Championship) - being run for the first time in 2012.  Developed from the ILMC (Intercontinental Le Mans Cup), which was successfully run in 2010 and 2011.  An official FIA series in 2012, but run in collaboration with the ACO.  Website: www.lemans.org (official website is www.fiawec.com, but this is still "under construction).  Eight races planned for 2012, mainly in 6-hour format, except for 12 Hours of Sebring (shared with ALMS) and 24 Hours of Le mans.  Controversially, Petit Le Mans will not be shared with ALMS this year.  Classes: LMP1 (incl. the factory teams, e.g. Audi and Totyota, but sadly not Peugeot in 2012; Audi and Toyota entering hybrids) / LMP2 (privateer teams, running chassis from Oreca, Lola, Zytek, HPD, etc) / LM GTE Pro / LM GTE Am.  The E in GTE stands for Endurance and these classes have taken over from the old GT2, which is now defunct.  GTE Am teams have to include at least one amateur (gentleman) driver.  Porsche will compete with the GT3 RSR, with the Felebrmayr Proton team being the top Porsche team.

    ELMS (European Le Mans Series) - used to be known as the LMS (Le Mans Series) until 2011.  Run under the auspices of the ACO.  Five 6-hour races planned for 2012, all in Europe.  Website: www.lemans-series.com.  Classes: LMP2 (private teams only) / LMPC / LM GTE Pro / LM GTE Am / LM GTC.  LMPC and GTC are the "Challenge" classes and are meant to provide a cheaper entry into the series (LMPC runs the common-platform FLM (Formula Le Mans) cars.  No LMP1 in 2012.  Again, Porsche will be running the GT3 RSR in GTE Pro and Am classes, with Prospeed Competition being the primary Porsche team.

    ALMS (American Le Mans Series).  Similar technical and sporting regulations to those applied in WEC and ELMS.  Ten races took place in 2011, starting with Sebring (12 hours) and ending with Petit Le Mans (1,000 miles).  Website: www.americanlemans.com.  Classes: LMP1 / LMP2 / LMPC / GT / GTC.  GTC (GT Challenge) is again an entry-level class, and competitors raced the Porsche 911 GT3 Cup in 2011.  Porsche will enter the GT3 RSR, with the Flying Lizards being the top Porsche team.

    FIA GT1 World Championship - 10 races planned for 2012, including India, Argentina, etc.  Format is 1-hour races, with a qualifying race on Saturday and a championship race on Sunday.  Website: www.gt1world.com.  Big change in 2012, as the series' sporting and technical regulations are being unified with the GT3 European series - so, although called the GT1 championship, the cars will effectively be GT3 spec.  Porsche has not yet confirmed its participation, but if it does, it will most likely compete with the GT3 R.

    FIA GT3 European Championship - 6 races planned for 2012, all in Europe.  Same format as GT1 above.  Website: www.gt3europe.com.  Porsche will run the GT3 R in this series.

    Blancpain Endurance Series - only run since 2011.  6 races planned for 2012, following a 3-hour format, except for the 24 Hours of Spa (the showcase event of the series).  Organised in parallel with the GT3 European Championship and the GT4 European Cup - so classes are GT3 and GT4.  Website: www.blancpain-endurance-series.com.

    In addtion to the above major series, there are a host of other GT and endurance series which are worth following, inlcuding the GRAND-AM Rolex Sports Car Series, the International GT OPen, the ADAC GT Masters, British GT Championship, Japan Super GT, the VLN series at the Nurburgring, and of course the legendary Nurburgring 24h.

    Hope this helps.  Can be quite confusing, especially given the changes coming in 2012 (and I'm sure I got some things wrong).  We're still waiting for confirmation of events and entrants in some of these series.  Smiley


    Re: LMP1, LMP2, ALMS, GT1, GT3, GTE, WES..?!

    Sorry guys . I have been away in South Africa and have just arrived home 15minutes ago.

    PureBlue's above post  does a good job of explaining the various series.

    To Clarify GTE: GTE stands for "GT Endurance". It substitutes the "old" GT2 class (Where the RSR, 458, etc run)


    Re: LMP1, LMP2, ALMS, GT1, GT3, GTE, WES..?!

    Thanks Pureblue.  Very helpful - unlike the FIA websites.

    So would I be correct in thinking that some major unification (of series and categories) would improve things massively..?  And would I be correct in thinking that the FIA wouldn't like to see this..?

    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: LMP1, LMP2, ALMS, GT1, GT3, GTE, WES..?!

    Adding to Pureblue's helpful summary,  I think that GTE Am teams that have to include at least one amateur (gentleman) driver, also have to run the previous year's car. In comparison, GTE Pro run current cars with a fully professional crew. It was like that in 2011 at least.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: LMP1, LMP2, ALMS, GT1, GT3, GTE, WES..?!

    Grand Am racing is the France family trying to turn sports car racing into NASCAR. This is ment for the top classes not the GT cars.  I personally don't like their format.  They give all the cars a generic look and limit technology used in their cars, just like NASCAR.  I like the wide open use of technology in racing.  This has helped companies like Porsche, Audi, Ferrari, Puegeot, Toyota, Jaguar ect. that have raced on Sunday and sell on Monday mindset.  The cars have advanced so much because of this mindset and not the NASCAR mindset using heavy cars with old technologies and if you use a good new technology then you are a cheater.  Let the technology chips fall where they may and let us consumers decide what we want.


    Re: LMP1, LMP2, ALMS, GT1, GT3, GTE, WES..?!

    Budster:

    Thanks Pureblue.  Very helpful - unlike the FIA websites.

    So would I be correct in thinking that some major unification (of series and categories) would improve things massively..?  And would I be correct in thinking that the FIA wouldn't like to see this..?

    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

    Not necessarily.  I think the FIA would probably love to see all of the series unified under their control - but I don't think this would necessarily be an improvement.  I think the very fact that some of these series are run outside of FIA control provides a greater degree of variety - and provides more potential entry points for teams who want to go racing, but perhaps can't afford the expenses necessitated by complying with FIA regulations.

    As an aside, it was interesting (and somewhat surprising) to see an agreement being struck between the FIA and ACO to include the Le Mans 24 hr in the FIA-branded WEC.  My understanding is that relations between those two bodies have been tense at times, with the ACO understandably guarding its valuable Le Mans brand.  If I remember correctly, the agreement specifically provides for the ACO to retain control over Le Mans, while co-managing the race with the FIA.

    Also, while the GT1 World and GT3 European championships are official FIA-sanctioned championships, they are managed by the SRO Motorsports Group (i.e. the Stefane Ratel Organisation), together with the Blancpain series (which is "approved" by the FIA, but not an official FIA series).


    Re: LMP1, LMP2, ALMS, GT1, GT3, GTE, WES..?!

    Oh dear! I made a  massive post that explained all this, but it seems to have disappeared. I'l try and find some time tomorrow to explain it all again.

     


    Re: LMP1, LMP2, ALMS, GT1, GT3, GTE, WES..?!

    PureBlue:
    Not necessarily.  I think the FIA would probably love to see all of the series unified under their control - but I don't think this would necessarily be an improvement.  I think the very fact that some of these series are run outside of FIA control provides a greater degree of variety - and provides more potential entry points for teams who want to go racing, but perhaps can't afford the expenses necessitated by complying with FIA regulations.
    Spyderidol:
    Quite true, but there are cases where two competing series take away teams, car counts, fans and finances from each other. A case in point is Grand Am and ALMS.
    PureBlue:
    As an aside, it was interesting (and somewhat surprising) to see an agreement being struck between the FIA and ACO to include the Le Mans 24 hr in the FIA-branded WEC.  My understanding is that relations between those two bodies have been tense at times, with the ACO understandably guarding its valuable Le Mans brand.  If I remember correctly, the agreement specifically provides for the ACO to retain control over Le Mans, while co-managing the race with the FIA.
    Spyderidol:
    Your understanding is correct. The FiA is seen by many sportscar fans as the body responsible for almost killing off Sportscar racing in order to promote F1.
    Unfortunately my post explaining all this disappeared. Essentially if you want to have a World Championship, you need to have FiA involved. ACO are the organizers of Le Mans, but the sporting rules are FiA based.
    The FiA is responsible for Sporting Regulations . The ACO regulations are responsible for classification and definitions of the cars competing in the WEC. I'l explain more later.
    PureBlue:
    Also, while the GT1 World and GT3 European championships are official FIA-sanctioned championships, they are managed by the SRO Motorsports Group (i.e. the Stefane Ratel Organisation), together with the Blancpain series (which is "approved" by the FIA, but not an official FIA series).
    Spyderidol
    ....But remember that the FiA provides the International Sporting Code for almost all motor racing.

     


     
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