Crown

JimFlat6:

If Nick has been taken hostage by the San Diego Porsche Club, we can expect a ransom demand soon!

Carlos from Spain:

JimFlat6:

If Nick has been taken hostage by the San Diego Porsche Club, we can expect a ransom demand soon!

If we all dug into our pockets we should be able to get together enough money to get them to keep him. 

fritz

nberry:

Many good points but human nature being what it is it still falls back to the old and thoroughly untrue adage "you are what you drive". Sadly, people view it that way. Otherwise, Ferrari's, Lambo's and other super rich cars would not exist.

I didn't have you down as insecure Nick   Just buy a Boxster and have them make this bumper sticker for you by way of apology for downsizing 

GM Austin:

ADias:

And BTW... power is not everything. The S has plenty of power/torque to be fun. All out power is crucial for Vmax. For back road driving not so important.

Right. It's all relative. The classic 73 Carrera RS had a 2.7 l motor with around 210 hp. Even the basic Boxster has more than that. 

But the Boxster weighs around 40% more...

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello

ISUK:

nberry:

Many good points but human nature being what it is it still falls back to the old and thoroughly untrue adage "you are what you drive". Sadly, people view it that way. Otherwise, Ferrari's, Lambo's and other super rich cars would not exist.

 

I didn't have you down as insecure Nick   Just buy a Boxster and have them make this bumper sticker for you by way of apology for downsizing 

hahahahahahaha amazing Made my day.

The Boxster is amazing, it will be my next Porsche i am sure of it.

indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 

Grant:

GM Austin:

ADias:

And BTW... power is not everything. The S has plenty of power/torque to be fun. All out power is crucial for Vmax. For back road driving not so important.

Right. It's all relative. The classic 73 Carrera RS had a 2.7 l motor with around 210 hp. Even the basic Boxster has more than that. 

But the Boxster weighs around 40% more...

That's certainly true, the 73 Carrera was very lightweight in comparison.  But the power to weight in the Boxster S is about the same.

Hilarious!

2005 997S Blk/Blk

Very Funny! 

I am very secure but I was speaking as an outsider. I would buy a Boxster in a heartbeat if it had more hp regardless of perception. Just give me an option to pay more for 30% more hp. But alas we then compromise the untouchable; the 911 which can never be compromised within the Porsche models.

I understand why from Porsche's point of view but will never understand it from a customer point of view.

Fritz, the Porsche Club cannot handle me. There is not enough money in the world which would persuade them to keep me.

--

Back in the day of the 550 Spyder, was it a "girl's car" too??

Gladstone:

Back in the day of the 550 Spyder, was it a "girl's car" too??

Definitely not, but the 550 was also allowed to go racing. 

fritz

nberry:

I understand why from Porsche's point of view but will never understand it from a customer point of view.

Simple: the flagship 911 allows them to charge a premium for everything else.  It's an icon.  Without it, all the other models would have to be pitched against their Audi, BMW and MB rivals.  The buyers of the Cayenne, cayman, Pana and cayman WANT to be associated with the 911 and they WANT the exclusivity. 

--

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

Content wise, the new 911 is ridculously overpriced. If you dont really use its full potential all the time you might as well get a new BMW 650.

nberry:

AS you may or not know I have been rather critical of the Boxster because it was small, lacked power and conveyed an image of a girl car. I posted earlier today on the thread dealing with the new Boxster that my objection to the Boxster was so strong that I haven't driven my wife's Boxster S even though she has had for almost two months.

After posting that I decided that at the least I should drive it once. So it being a nice day in San Diego (sunny about 80F) I took it out.

In my many years of driving and owning all type of sport cars, I have been fortunate to experience driving pleasures which many have not had an opportunity to do so. I know good sport cars and I also know bad sport cars having owned both.

But I must admit that the Boxster S is by far the best handling car I have driven in my life. I was blown away with its balance, nimbleness and feeling of being planted even under the most extreme driving conditions. Without my wife in the car, I was able to take to areas where there are difficult tight turns. At speed the car just carve out those turns like hot knife through butter.

My Ferrari's and the Turbo did not take the turns as well as the Boxster S. Much may have to do with their greater hp and the feeling of possibly loosing control. But the Boxster S went into those turns as fast if not faster all with a balance and stability I have not experienced with any other car. It truly is a remarkable car. It is so good that I take back every negative post I made regarding the Boxster. 

I would buy one for myself if only they would provide me with another 150hp. Nothing, nothing compares to a Boxster in handling and driving pleasure.

Told you!

965 3.3turbo/  993 targa / 996 cab /997S cab

Audi R8  //  Audi A5 S-line 3.0tdi Quattro/ RR 4.4i

Okay, now I am curious... RC can you unblock Nick for me?

JAMS:

Okay, now I am curious... RC can you unblock Nick for me?

He posted nothing you want to know. That wasn't Nick. It was someone pretending to be Nick.

JimFlat6:

Content wise, the new 911 is ridculously overpriced. If you dont really use its full potential all the time you might as well get a new BMW 650.

Which is like saying that anyone who lives in a city might as well not bother with a car at all...  I don't think it's anything about using it's potential...

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

nberry:

Many good points but human nature being what it is it still falls back to the old and thoroughly untrue adage "you are what you drive". Sadly, people view it that way. Otherwise, Ferrari's, Lambo's and other super rich cars would not exist.

Jim, you are one funny guy.

 

Well it confirms why you owned a Ferrari, but not sure "what you are if you drive one" but you are way to smart to believe it Give it a few more years and Nick will not remember even driving a Ferrari or understand why one would want to own one

I am already there. But I can say that about most cars. I remain hopeful that Porsche will develop a competitor to the 458.

I have owned 5 Porsches since 1973, four of which were 911's and one of which was a Boxster S (2001).  in August 2009 I landed an incomparable deal on a 2007 997 C4S for $66K with 9,000 miles which originally stickered for $106K.  It had nearly every option on it that was available in "07.  I sold the Boxster, flew out to Porsche of Colo. Springs and picked up the car from the Porsche dealer there and drove home to Ashland, Oregon.  Somehow the car never fit and I have always missed the handling prowess of the Boxster, even though stylistically the 997 Carrera had been the car of my dreams.  It feels heavy and cumbersome relative to the Boxster S, and this was glaringly evident on some fast two lane twisty back roads here in Oregon that I used to delight in driving the Boxster.  The mid engined platform remains in my estimation the finest driving experience to be had in a Porsche.  Don't take my word for it.  Go test drive one for yourself.  The 911 definitely is the prestige car of the Porsche family and it has great presence and admiration by most.  It is after all the iconic car that continued the Porsche mystique once the 356 series was completed.  I have no doubt that the new 991 will continue in this tradition and uphold the Porsche standard well into the 21st century.  But it has become so capable and so far reaching in the upper reaches of the speedometer that, for me, I can no longer justify the higher performance and its attendant price tag.  If I lived in Germany, no doubt I would be able to (legally) explore the higher limits of the car but here in America such a car has become a non necessity.  For nearly 40K in savings the mid engined cars are every bit as capable for the roads we drive and in my  experience more fun to drive..............

Dave63:

I have owned 5 Porsches since 1973, four of which were 911's and one of which was a Boxster S (2001).  in August 2009 I landed an incomparable deal on a 2007 997 C4S for $66K with 9,000 miles which originally stickered for $106K.  It had nearly every option on it that was available in "07.  I sold the Boxster, flew out to Porsche of Colo. Springs and picked up the car from the Porsche dealer there and drove home to Ashland, Oregon.  Somehow the car never fit and I have always missed the handling prowess of the Boxster, even though stylistically the 997 Carrera had been the car of my dreams.  It feels heavy and cumbersome relative to the Boxster S, and this was glaringly evident on some fast two lane twisty back roads here in Oregon that I used to delight in driving the Boxster.  The mid engined platform remains in my estimation the finest driving experience to be had in a Porsche.  Don't take my word for it.  Go test drive one for yourself.  The 911 definitely is the prestige car of the Porsche family and it has great presence and admiration by most.  It is after all the iconic car that continued the Porsche mystique once the 356 series was completed.  I have no doubt that the new 991 will continue in this tradition and uphold the Porsche standard well into the 21st century.  But it has become so capable and so far reaching in the upper reaches of the speedometer that, for me, I can no longer justify the higher performance and its attendant price tag.  If I lived in Germany, no doubt I would be able to (legally) explore the higher limits of the car but here in America such a car has become a non necessity.  For nearly 40K in savings the mid engined cars are every bit as capable for the roads we drive and in my  experience more fun to drive..............

Agree. The Boxster/Cayman is what any man could ever need from a sportscar. Drive this and you will enjoy every minute in it, without feeling guilt as you would if had bought something a lot more expensive with only fractionally better performance. 

This is objectively the best car you can ever have, penny for penny, cent for cent. 

Objectively, it's difficult to disagree with the previous two posts.  My first Porsche was a Cayman S and I loved driving it.  However, I've owned two 911s since then and there is still something truly special and unique about the 911 - perhaps it's precisely because of its "imperfections" (especially the unigue driving dynamics imparted by its rear-engined configuration).  I certainly never felt either my C2S or GTS to be "heavy and cumbersome", but perhaps that's because both were RWD rather than AWD.  On a track or twisty mountain road, there is no substitute IMO for the power of the 911's 3.8 l engine, coupled with the driving dynamics imparted by lowered sport suspension and a properly-sorted LSD.

BTW if you like the driving experience provided by a Boxster, do yourself a favour and test drive a Cayman R - I had the pleasure of doing this late last year and all I can say is that it takes the mid-engined Porsche experience to a whole new level. 

I think it really comes down to which experience one seeks.

With the mid-engined choice, the Boxster and Cayman cars offer a superb, neutral handling experience.

With the rear-engined choice, the 911 doesn't offer neutral handling but instead offers more scope for playing with weight re-distribution under braking and powering out of corners with the increased traction provided by having the engine over the rear axle.

There's an open choice of which pleasure one prefers.

Personally, I'm hooked on that second one :)

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

easy_rider911:

I think it really comes down to which experience one seeks.

With the mid-engined choice, the Boxster and Cayman cars offer a superb, neutral handling experience.

With the rear-engined choice, the 911 doesn't offer neutral handling but instead offers more scope for playing with weight re-distribution under braking and powering out of corners with the increased traction provided by having the engine over the rear axle.

There's an open choice of which pleasure one prefers.

Personally, I'm hooked on that second one :)

+1 - That sums it up perfectly for me...

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

John H:

easy_rider911:

I think it really comes down to which experience one seeks.

With the mid-engined choice, the Boxster and Cayman cars offer a superb, neutral handling experience.

With the rear-engined choice, the 911 doesn't offer neutral handling but instead offers more scope for playing with weight re-distribution under braking and powering out of corners with the increased traction provided by having the engine over the rear axle.

There's an open choice of which pleasure one prefers.

Personally, I'm hooked on that second one :)

+1 - That sums it up perfectly for me...

I would say the Boxster/Cayman mid-engined platform offers easier (more natural) corner entry whereas the rear-engined 911 offers better exit from mid-corner onwards. I choose 911and this has nothing to do with perceived image

--

"Form follows function"

I remember I was at an event a couple of years ago in which I had the oportunity to test on a very tight and technical track were HP was irrelevant a BoxsterS, CaymanS, 997C2, 997C4S and 997TT back to back. The Boxster and Cayman were very easy to drive fast, very neutral and noble at the limit, very effective. The 997TT was a bit on the heavier side for such a tight track and its HP/torque was no advantage in that track and the lag didn't help in the on/off throttle of succesive corners one after the other so it was the least effective and fun, even with PSM off, it was just not the right scenario for its aptitudes. The 997C4S was better but still a bit too sluggish in the steering and understeer, but the 997S was the one that made me walk out of with the biggest smile on my face, I was as fast as the Boxster or Cayman, but took a bit more effort to do so since you had to play with it a bit more, with how you entered and exited the turns, etc  (I have many many thousands of miles with 911 so I'm very used to its handling and so it was the "natural" to me, if I didn't maybe my impression would be different) and it was that handling character and steering of the RWD mixed with the RWD that made it so rewarding and entertaining. A character that I have not found in any other car I have ever tried.

Anyway those were my own personal observations in my case. I can see though how some may prefer the Boxster/Cayman, some well experienced in the both 911 and Boxster/Cayman yet they just like the character of its beautiful mid-engine chasis, but I suspect that others are because they are not used to the 911 and haven't adapted yet to its particular driving dinamics, while the Boxster/Cayman does not need such an adaptation, you "get it" from day one.

Very good analysis

"Form follows function"

For the argument that people buying Boxster/Cayman can't afford or perceived to be unable to afford a 911, I offer a simple solution, raise the price and content of Boxster/Cayman to be inline with 911.

Then maybe more 'men' will buy them because there is no more excuses for such a wonderful handling car.

Porsche make more money and develop better cars for us, win win for everyone.

Is it April 1st already?

Whoopsy:

For the argument that people buying Boxster/Cayman can't afford or perceived to be unable to afford a 911, I offer a simple solution, raise the price and content of Boxster/Cayman to be inline with 911.

Then maybe more 'men' will buy them because there is no more excuses for such a wonderful handling car.

Porsche make more money and develop better cars for us, win win for everyone.

DIdn't they do that already?  Isn't the new 991 a quasi-rear engined 911 crossed with a mid-engined Cayman?  Throw in the cab, and it's got some Boxster in as well.  Oh, and the dashboard is Panamera, and the C4 is 4WD, which will get you out of the mud.

In fact, the 911 is such an accomplished car now, you can drop the rest of them altogether.  Then maybe add just one new one - the 959 for REAL offroad and super car ability.

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)