Crown

...successful model. I'm pretty sure about it.

Some facts: So far it seems that most Cayenne and Panamera sitting on my dealer's parking lot, are...Diesel. Amazing.

I know for a fact that the Cayenne Diesel has a 9-12 months delivery time, probably one reason why Porsche Leipzig plans to raise production by one third early next year.

The price tag of a nicely optioned Cayenne Diesel is around 90000 EUR, the one of a nicely optioned Cayenne S almost 135000 EUR and the one of a Cayenne Turbo almost 165000 EUR. Huge price difference and you still get the same look and Porsche badge on the Diesel.

Today I got a BMW 520d from my local BMW dealer as a loaner, there is a recall for my X5M, they need to exchange a water pump responsible for cooling the turbo chargers. The fuel tank of the loaner was almost empty and I actually wanted to get mad because of it since I really didn't have the time to drive to the next fuel station. Then, I remembered. Diesel. I checked out the trip computer and remaining distance with fuel capacity was...180 km. Again...the needle of the fuel tank gauge is in the far left corner. I checked the average fuel consumption and no, I didn't drive like a granny and again the typical Diesel consumption shock....7.7 liters / 100 km. Wow. The 520d is not a small or light car, impressive. I also never had the feeling in the speed range below 120 kph that the car is actually slow, on the contrary, the huge torque is amazing.

Bottom line is: If Porsche puts a small SUV on the market, a Porsche SUV, with a powerful Diesel engine and if they succeed to keep the weight below 1800 kg, this SUV will rock. If the price is right too, it has to be priced at least 7000-8000 EUR below the bigger brother Cayenne, the Cajun will sell like crazy.

To summon it up: Porsche, SUV, powerful Diesel engine (even the 245 hp engine would be enough for a start), low Diesel consumption and attractive price tag, we have a winner.

I'm pretty sure that the Cajun will hurt Cayenne sales pretty hard but I'm also sure that this smaller Porsche SUV will be more profitable for Porsche than the current Cayenne. It doesn't need to be 100% off-road capable like the Cayenne is and I can even imagine a 2WD version of the Cajun.

You may not like what I wrote here but I think that everybody knows that I am right. 

I just hope that Porsche never forgets their roots...

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

100% agree will be a success - just they have to get the leasing model right!

I'm sure you're right - the Cajun will be the mass market Porsche and kill the X3 and it's sibling the Q5 especially.

I'm surprised at the 90EUR price you quoted though - I've just paid only R800,000 (about EUR80,000 at the exchange rate when I ordered it), which was EUR69,000 list with EUR11,000 of extras - I can't believe you're suggesting Eur21,000 or extras?)  The wait was only(!) six months too.

It's a real pity of course - I think we'd all love it if Porsche only made 911's, but it's just us being sentimental...  And also, I wouldn't have the wonderful Cayenne Diesel in my garage!

Oh, and you might change your mind about the Cajun being the No1 seller if the Pajun comes out with a 2.0l engine...  It would be a sad day indeed...  

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

Cayenne Diesel base price is almost 62000 EUR in Germany.

Wait list depends on markets, in Germany, the Diesel sells very well.

Personally, I would only consider a Cayenne Diesel if they make it very powerful. The current 245 hp Diesel is a joke, I would buy the Audi Q5 instead (lighter, practically same engine but better performance).

I can imagine that the Cajun will get two top engines: A supercharged (or turbo charged) V6 and the powerful Audi Diesel with over 300 hp. Both engines will probably have a similar power output. I would love to see the V8 of the Cayenne S in the Cajun but I heard various rumors that this ain't going to happen.

In the beginning however, as far as I heard, the powerful Audi Diesel will remain reserved solely for the Cayenne and Panamera, the Cajun gets it later. If ever.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I think you are 100% right.

The Cajun will be a very big success indeed. It will take away some sales from the Cayenne for sure, but ultimately it'll be good for the group.

I have heard so far that the design is lot more aggressive than the Cayenne.

I agree - the Cajun will take some Cayenne sales rather like the Cayman took some Carrera sales but overall, more cars were sold. The trick is to offer more choice at minimal extra cost. The choice plus some attractive pricing will make this a success IMO.

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

It will have 3 or 5 doors?

And what about the "Mini-Panamera" (sedan)? Has green light for production?

pjd:

It will have 3 or 5 doors?

And what about the "Mini-Panamera" (sedan)? Has green light for production?

Apparently the Cajun will be 3 and 5 doors but another source told me that it is going to be 5 doors only. We will know soon enough... 

As to the Pajun, I don't have a clue. Right now, Porsche apparently concentrates on a top model between the 911 top model (which would be the Turbo S, disregard the RS model) and the 918. It makes sense but I would also want to see a nice two door GT Coupe in the same or slightly less expensive segment, as a direct competitor to the BMW 6 series and Mercedes CL.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

Cayenne Diesel base price is almost 62000 EUR in Germany.

You stated 90 EUR earlier - typo, or lots of extras..?!

The current 245 hp Diesel is a joke, I would buy the Audi Q5 instead (lighter, practically same engine but better performance).

You mean the Q7?  Yes, it's not a very powerful unit at all, but it goes to show who they are aiming this at - for my wife, it's the perfect vehicle: a sufficiently torquey school-runner, which is the height of luxury vs. the other SUVs on the market - and great value compared to them (again, I wouldn't compare it to the Q5 - it's up against the Disco 4, the Q7, the X5 and the Merc ML range).

It's also a perfect family vehicle for holidays up the coast - no autobahns in sight, so cruising at a steady 160kms is fine.  She doesn't think it's a joke at all, so it's "horses for courses" I suppose...

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

RC:

pjd:

It will have 3 or 5 doors?

And what about the "Mini-Panamera" (sedan)? Has green light for production?

Apparently the Cajun will be 3 and 5 doors but another source told me that it is going to be 5 doors only. We will know soon enough... 

As to the Pajun, I don't have a clue. Right now, Porsche apparently concentrates on a top model between the 911 top model (which would be the Turbo S, disregard the RS model) and the 918. It makes sense but I would also want to see a nice two door GT Coupe in the same or slightly less expensive segment, as a direct competitor to the BMW 6 series and Mercedes CL.

 

Maybe the 3 door version will go for production depending on the sucess of the new BMW X4. No doubt that the 5 door version will be a HUGE sucess (with the correct price....).

Although it would be very exciting to see a model between the 911 and the 918, i would prefer a GT model, a real  928 sucessor.

A real 928 successor is something many people are waiting for, including myself. As far as I know, Porsche wanted to offer a Coupe based on the Panamera but since they apparently plan to use the VW A8/Bentley platform for the next gen Panamera, it may not be profitable to offer the Coupe now before the next Panamera gen shows up. I don't know...

There is a market for such a car, I actually would rather produce a Coupe than a car between the 911 Turbo and 918... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I was waiting for a smaller Porsche SUV for a long time... I am surprised they decided to give the project a green light so late...

There is no try. Just do.

RC:

A real 928 successor is something many people are waiting for, including myself. As far as I know, Porsche wanted to offer a Coupe based on the Panamera but since they apparently plan to use the VW A8/Bentley platform for the next gen Panamera, it may not be profitable to offer the Coupe now before the next Panamera gen shows up. I don't know...

There is a market for such a car, I actually would rather produce a Coupe than a car between the 911 Turbo and 918... 

The GT coupe won't happen with the current Panamera platform. Possibly in 2015-16 when the Gen II car appears.

The "supercar" in the 458 class OTOH is expected to add to Porsche prestige (needed in view of the move to lower models), and it will give a good participant in the GT motorsport classes. Besides such cars are very lucrative and PAG always have a good eye for profit.

"Form follows function"

I once again agree reginos.

The Cajun will be a success but only if it will be sporty, trendy and fuel efficient.

I can imagine something like the MLK, sporty trendy for urban environments, but also very good in rain and the woods.

If Porsche can pull a great driver car, with trend setting design and high-tech engines coupled with RWD and AWD, it should do fine.

I actually think it's most important for this model to go to Dakar rally and do something amazing with fuel efficiency or Porsche Intelligent Performance, a hybrid of some sort.

indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 

I agree RC, I think it will be a success.  I'm interested in one myself.  This is the market segment that's hot right now.  I hope they bring a diesel to the US.  If I recall correctly, the expansion of the Leipzig plant will allow the Cajun to be more fully assembled by Porsche, not relying so much on VW or Audi.

RC:

In the beginning however, as far as I heard, the powerful Audi Diesel will remain reserved solely for the Cayenne and Panamera, the Cajun gets it later. If ever.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Are you sure the twin-turbo 3.0 tdi will find its way to the Panamera? I thought it was stated this engine did not fit in the Panamera?

If it does fit, I reckon it would be a perfect match for that car...

I agree. The Cajun will be a major success. 

_________________________________________________________________ 

"Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.

Porker:

RC:

In the beginning however, as far as I heard, the powerful Audi Diesel will remain reserved solely for the Cayenne and Panamera, the Cajun gets it later. If ever.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Are you sure the twin-turbo 3.0 tdi will find its way to the Panamera? I thought it was stated this engine did not fit in the Panamera?

If it does fit, I reckon it would be a perfect match for that car...

Who stated it ? Maybe I've overlooked something. 

Fact is: Most Panamera I see on the street or at parking lots are Diesel. They have that Diesel badge on the side and the black brake calipers. So why would Porsche not want to put a more powerful Diesel into the Panamera ?

The engine bay of the Panamera is huge, I wonder why the Audi Diesel shouldn't fit ? There are always possibilities...

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Just got this in, sorry, forgot to tell you guys:

There are rumors that Audi plans a Q5 plant in the US and now hold your breath, apparently they plan to take Porsche with them on that ride... 

Nothing is final yet but currently, VW is seriously considering a SUV manufacturing plant in the US. Apparently they already have people in the US checking for various possibilities (locations, support from local government, legal issues, etc.).

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I've heard that the Cayenne and Panamera Diesel "S" models will be released in 2012.

"Form follows function"

We don't see that many Panemeras in the UK but those that I have seen are mostly Panamera Turbos and Panamera S models.

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

Seems like the market in UK is very similar to the one here! 

And ''similarities'' rise during summer I guess...

easy_rider911:

We don't see that many Panemeras in the UK but those that I have seen are mostly Panamera Turbos and Panamera S models.

Diesel all the way over here. Surprisingly, the Hybrid doesn't seem to sell too well too.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Last month I went for a 1000miles trip with a hybrid Cayenne. Nice car, much better than I expected, much more fun than the diesel Cayenne. All types of roads (inkl. 15% fast Autobahn, 60% with speed limits (140km/h), 25% side-roads driven fast). Fuel consumption less than 11l/100km, not bad for such a heavy car.

Christian,

Any idea yet how the Cajun is going to be marketed?

In the Netherlands, I didn't notice a lot of difference between the marketing of for example BMX X3 vs X5, Audi Q5 vs Q7. It just seems that people want an SUV. Not so much money: X3 / Q5, more money: X5 / Q7.

When I think about the Cajun, my fantasy goes wild and I start seeing images of a small roxster kind of concept. That would in my opinion be a potential concept.

If the Cajun is going to be marketed just like the Q5 / X3 however, it will end up to be some sort of soul less spinoff, rather than a model with right of existense in itself, which would be a shame in my opinion.

Porsche, like any other car manufacturer in the world, wants to earn money. I don't know how they are going to make the Cajun "special", from a marketing point of view but I guess they are going to market it as some sort of sports car for the family. I doubt they are going to market it as a sports car / SUV crossover, like the Cayenne, it wouldn't make too much sense in my opinion. They could also market the Cajun as the family Porsche. I know that many consider the Cayenne to be the family Porsche but keep in mind that the Cayenne is still pretty expensive for a second family car. The Cajun could close that gap, allowing Porsche sports car owners to get another Porsche, a family Porsche for less money. It makes sense. Even my wife thinks about getting a Cajun and she knows that I'm going to go for the Cayenne Turbo. She needs a smaller car for the city with a lower fuel consumption plus enough room for the kids and the Cajun Diesel would be perfect.

The question is: How is the Cajun going to look, will it have 3 or 5 doors or both and what will it's price tag be ? I just hope Porsche is clever enough to understand that making the Cajun almost as expensive as the Cayenne would do them no good. The Cajun needs to be accessible, it is a new model. On the other hand, it will be difficult for Porsche because they can't sell it at the same price level as Audi does with the Q5. Porsche needs to differentiate themselves using a sportier look and of course a different chassis and engine setup. Not easy because even the current Q5 is pretty good.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I do not worry at all - I guess it is just going to be a "model boasting impressive performance and dynamic looks, exuding unadulterated driving pleasure"....

d997h:

I do not worry at all - I guess it is just going to be a "model boasting impressive performance and dynamic looks, exuding unadulterated driving pleasure"....

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

The question is: How is the Cajun going to look, will it have 3 or 5 doors or both and what will it's price tag be ? I just hope Porsche is clever enough to understand that making the Cajun almost as expensive as the Cayenne would do them no good. The Cajun needs to be accessible, it is a new model. On the other hand, it will be difficult for Porsche because they can't sell it at the same price level as Audi does with the Q5. Porsche needs to differentiate themselves using a sportier look and of course a different chassis and engine setup. Not easy because even the current Q5 is pretty good.

RC, I think that they could very well go after the X6 and or Evoque, a sporty looking SUV.

It makes sense because in this case it would slot inbetween the Q5 and Q7. Also, I doubt Audi will make a Q6, sort of a sporty/trendy model like the A7. They might just leave that to Porsche with the Cajun to help to firm reach maximum sales figures for all VW Group models.

This is actually also the reason Porsche hasn't done a Panamera Coupe.. The Audi A5 is too close. Maybe next gen.
 

indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :)