Crown

2003 Cayenne Turbo

RC what you are experiencing is years of socialism in Europe. It's run amok and it will be very hard to reverse it. Social justice for everyone!!!

nina:

RC what you are experiencing is years of socialism in Europe. It's run amok and it will be very hard to reverse it. Social justice for everyone!!!

I am inclined to believe it is not socialism per se which is at fault. Cars in Europe, especially in Germany, are are a symbol of status unlike a symbol of success in North America or the emerging markets in Asia. Just as your manners, clothing or housing situation it reflects your position and should fit accordingly. While small business owners such as RC or Beltar drive comparatively expensive cars for their job position, a head physician in a hospital that I happen to know has a significant collection of Porsche and other premium brands and nobody, not even his direct employees, are making strange remarks about it.

As much as I can relate to this incfelicitous situation, those are the roles one has to play by.

Ferdie:

I am inclined to believe it is not socialism per se which is at fault. Cars in Europe, especially in Germany, are are a symbol of status unlike a symbol of success in North America or the emerging markets in Asia. Just as your manners, clothing or housing situation it reflects your position and should fit accordingly. While small business owners such as RC or Beltar drive comparatively expensive cars for their job position, a head physician in a hospital that I happen to know has a significant collection of Porsche and other premium brands and nobody, not even his direct employees, are making strange remarks about it.

As much as I can relate to this incfelicitous situation, those are the roles one has to play by.

Rules ? What rules ? Are they written down somethere ?

There are no rules. People of course are more cautious with making snappy remarks with people they actually need/work for or people who they may need sometimes in the future. My wife has less problems with her friends than I have. She is a doctor and usually our friends or people we know, including neighbors, are her patients. If you get my point. I am just another business owner, they can choose other businesses. They don't need me. It plays a huge role in how people behave.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

Ferdie:

As much as I can relate to this incfelicitous situation, those are the roles one has to play by.

 

Rules ? What rules ? Are they written down somethere ?

 

  Whether Ferdie meant "roles" or "rules", I couldn't agree more.  Who has the right to make rules for others or to decide what roles they should play in life?  As long as your behaviour doesn't infringe on the rights of others, you shouldn't have to conform to their idea of what is socially acceptable.  "Political correctness" runs the risk of turning our lives into grey facsimiles of numbing boredom and uniformity, especially when we don't have the courage to challenge the pettiness and prejudice that comes from group-think.

Mmm, feel better now that I've got that off my chest. 

RC:

Ferdie:

While small business owners such as RC or Beltar drive comparatively expensive cars for their job position, a head physician in a hospital that I happen to know has a significant collection of Porsche and other premium brands and nobody, not even his direct employees, are making strange remarks about it.

As much as I can relate to this infelicitous situation, those are the roles one has to play by.

Rules ? What rules ? Are they written down somethere ?

There are no rules. People of course are more cautious with making snappy remarks with people they actually need/work for or people who they may need sometimes in the future.

Sorry,

was a bit in a hurry writing that comment. I did mean rules but funny enough roles just fits as well. Of course anybody living in society lives by a certain set of rules, I guess there is no denying of that. There is no written rule that we have to wait in line and nonetheless we agree on that. My post shouldn´t come across in a way that it should be condemnable to drive a bigger, louder or faster car than people would expect from one. My personal opinion is certainly far from that yet I do know quite a few of people who link the status of an individual to their choice of transportation. I do not believe that it is envy in a traditional sense that keeps these people making odd remarks about one´s cars. I do not think that the same comments come from those people if one spends their money for a proper appartment or house or if one spends the money for a Porsche on their private recording studio at home. Why have cars such as the Volkswagen Golf or the Dacia Logan been such a huge success in Germany? The former has traditionally been the only car that has not been connected to any social status (an attribute that has been widely considered). The later is a car that is clearly lacking any social status or fashionable relevance which, at least to me, explains its success here. Have you seen the most current TV advertisments for this car?

PureBlue:

Whether Ferdie meant "roles" or "rules", I couldn't agree more.  Who has the right to make rules for others or to decide what roles they should play in life?  As long as your behaviour doesn't infringe on the rights of others, you shouldn't have to conform to their idea of what is socially acceptable.  "Political correctness" runs the risk of turning our lives into grey facsimiles of numbing boredom and uniformity, especially when we don't have the courage to challenge the pettiness and prejudice that comes from group-think.

PureBlue,

I absolutely share your opinion. My comment was solely intended to explain the underlying pattern. You cannot imagine how many people I know that store one or more expensive cars in their garages yet do not communicate this in public. A female friend of mine received an Audi A4 as a company car, one of her male colleagues remarked that this car is not on the list of available models for him. She explained to him that she has a different choice of models as she is in a higher income category than him, since then he does not talk to her anymore. Others friends are driving full-optioned cars that appear like an entry level model from the outside. As I said, it is part of the rules.

Ferdie:I absolutely share your opinion. My comment was solely intended to explain the underlying pattern. You cannot imagine how many people I know that store one or more expensive cars in their garages yet do not communicate this in public. A female friend of mine received an Audi A4 as a company car, one of her male colleagues remarked that this car is not on the list of available models for him. She explained to him that she has a different choice of models as she is in a higher income category than him, since then he does not talk to her anymore. Others friends are driving full-optioned cars that appear like an entry level model from the outside. As I said, it is part of the rules.

Isn't this a very very sad thing ? People being ashamed for their success, having to fear other people who are less successful ? This...and the weather over here...are the two major motives I want to immigrate from Germany. I never cared about other people's business (meaning: wealth), so why would they care about mine ?! On the contrary, there are so many really rich people over here in the forum and I don't envy them, I admire them. I didn't steal from anybody but I always have to justify how I earned my money. I hate it.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

Isn't this a very very sad thing ? People being ashamed for their success, having to fear other people who are less successful ? This...and the weather over here...are the two major motives I want to immigrate from Germany. I never cared about other people's business (meaning: wealth), so why would they care about mine ?! On the contrary, there are so many really rich people over here in the forum and I don't envy them, I admire them.

To be honest, I find it very... funny. I don´t care what people think of my ways of transportation (and luckily don´t have to) but also have to say that I have not gained negative experiences. I stick to my assumption that the choice of cars is significantly related to status in Germany and a completely different scenario than, let´s say in the US, and also a subject that everybody can relate to. Would they care as much if one would spend the money on other, less common objects? I know a pharmacist with his own private plane, two entrepeneurs with own appartments on an Mediterranean island. None of them is experiencing any problems with it. Yet I also know of someone who has parked his orange 911 Turbo in front of his business and doesn´t seem to have much issues with envy either. Maybe it is a cultural thing?

For you, RC, living in Florida and storing one or two sportscars in Germany for intermittend trips through Europe would be the way to go...

Ferdie:

For you, RC, living in Florida and storing one or two sportscars in Germany for intermittend trips through Europe would be the way to go...

One of our moderators did this but in the end decided to stay in Florida for good (I wonder why ? ), maybe I'm going to try this myself but unfortunately I don't have the necessary financial means right now (or ever for that matter... ).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Been a long time since I posted on this forum but thought I could contribute something of an update to the discussion is Cayenne Turbo S, forthcoming or not; I have just placed an order for a Cayenne Turbo with the upgrade power option (this will be a replacement for my 2006 Cayenne Turbo S).

Having read through the threads on this and other forums, I asked my UK dealer (with whom I have a GOOD RELATIONSHIP, having bought 6 Porsche cars off him over the years, and the last one was my very highly specced 2009 GT2) about  a forthcoming Turbo S configuration in 2012. He checked with Porsche Product Planning, and no release is planned in the first quarter of 2102, at earliest.

I have placed my order with said dealer for a Turbo with powerplus option, on the premise that should the factory decide to release an S configuration, then my order will be cancelled and replaced by an order for an S model. I have been given a build date of April 2012, which suits me fine.

As far as I heard, the Cayenne will be "upgraded" with new models in the following timely order:

Cayenne Diesel S (early 2012) 

Cayenne GTS (mid 2012)

Cayenne Turbo S (late 2012)

Please take these "rumors" with a grain of salt but these models have already been "green lighted" as far as we heard.

I'm actually very interested in the Cayenne Turbo S but trust me, performance-wise, the Turbo with powerkit is practically the same thing. The Turbo S however could include some standard options which could save some money though. Unfortunately I heard the rumor that the PCCB will not be a standard option on the Cayenne Turbo S.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

2102..? That's a 90 year wait - I've been struggling with a 6 month wait...

Hey RC.  Based on my 09 Cayenne Turbo S, PCCB will not be standard.  There are some nice standard options on an S model over and above a Turbo with powerkit, but in the end the price differential will be about $15-$17 K U.S. over the powerkit model.  Guess it really comes down to whether one wants to pay that premium for the top of the line model.  I made that decision and would do it again.  So beware--once you get hooked on that level, it is hard to go "back".  Guess I am just the type of sucker that Porsche is aiming for with an S model..

Christian,so restyling in late year 2013 or year 2014?

997TT RS Tuning stage II,2011 Cayenne Turbo

Wonderbar:

Hey RC.  Based on my 09 Cayenne Turbo S, PCCB will not be standard.  There are some nice standard options on an S model over and above a Turbo with powerkit, but in the end the price differential will be about $15-$17 K U.S. over the powerkit model.  Guess it really comes down to whether one wants to pay that premium for the top of the line model.  I made that decision and would do it again.  So beware--once you get hooked on that level, it is hard to go "back".  Guess I am just the type of sucker that Porsche is aiming for with an S model..

Yes, the Turbo S models were always tempting, no matter if 911, Cayenne or now the Panamera.

To be honest, I would love to get the Panamera Turbo S, it is the closest thing (for me as a family person) I could get to the 911 Turbo but since money matters (and also my customers, who wouldn't be too delighted with a Panamera in front of my office), I think I have to go for a Cayenne Turbo (S). The powerkit version of the Cayenne Turbo would be just fine too but if there isn't a huge (price) difference between both, I surely would go for the Turbo S.

My wife also needs a lot of space in the car, luggage, seating...the Panamera has a smaller luggage compartment and only four seats. Just yesterday, we were talking about her getting a Cajun or Cayenne Diesel (she is really upset with fuel prices and her car runs in her company's name, thus she has to pay for fuel herself) and me getting a Cayenne Turbo (S). On the other hand, if she has a car with five seats, why would I need one too? 

I still have time to decide but my deadline is sometimes around May or June 2012 because my dealer needs to order the car in time. Right now, the Cayenne has a waiting time of more than 6 months.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

For a Porsche family car, no doubt that the Cayenne is better then the Panamera.

The Cayenne Turbo it`s a fantastic car (i tested one last year... i love it...), but with fuel prices rising i think that a Cayenne S Diesel would be just perfect as well... but, if can have both that is more then perfect 

You mentioned the Cayenne Diesel. The S Diesel isn`t an option for you? Will this be "more expensive" then the normal Diesel?

According to rumors, the Diesel S will only be another model in the Cayenne model line, it will not replace the current Cayenne Diesel. Thus...it is going to be more expensive.  

For my wife, the Diesel would be just fine. She wants a nice family car for the city and I think the Cayenne Diesel would suit her well, same goes to the Cajun Diesel. Since I hate Diesel cars, the only way to go for me would be the Cayenne Turbo (S). An alternative could be the Panamera Turbo S but it attracts too much attention (which I don't need) and it is also aprox. 20k EUR more expensive than the Cayenne (considering similar options).

In the end, I will go for the Porsche which offers the better deal. I just hope that Porsche Financial starts some sort of incentives next year because right now, there is nothing for the Cayenne and only a very low incentive for the Panamera. Since Porsche plans to raise Cayenne production capacity by almost 1/3 next year, chances are good for a good lease deal on the Cayenne.

Yes, fuel prices will very likely go up (unless Germany enters a recession next year, which is possible...) but so do Diesel prices right now. On the other hand, I drove a X5 3.0d yesterday and fuel (Diesel) consumption was merely 10 liters / 100 km while my X5 M eats up 20 l / 100 km. Ouch.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

To be honest, I would love to get the Panamera Turbo S, it is the closest thing (for me as a family person) I could get to the 911 Turbo but since money matters (and also my customers, who wouldn't be too delighted with a Panamera in front of my office), I think I have to go for a Cayenne Turbo (S). The powerkit version of the Cayenne Turbo would be just fine too but if there isn't a huge (price) difference between both, I surely would go for the Turbo S.

RC, I'm curious about something you've said before (and repeated above): Why would it considered acceptable - by your customers - to drive a large, expensive Porsche SUV (the Cayenne), but not acceptable to drive a large, expensive Porsche sedan (the Panamera)?

This seems like a strange, and somewhat artificial, distinction to make - given that both are large and conspicuous, both consume a lot of fuel, both are expensive, and both are Porsches - but the SUV is "acceptable", whereas the sedan is not. 

There are less Panamera`s on the road then Cayenne`s. 

SUV market still growing. With the global crisis, brands like Porsche are "betting" in inferius segments (Cajun is certain for production, 550 spyder only if global crisis continue...). 

So we will continue to see many SUV`s on the street. In terms of looks (compared with sedans) they are very desirable, more practical... that`s why we see many of them on the streets...

In Lisbon, it`s very common to see a Cayenne, X5, ML... The Panamera is a rare car. I noted that people "turn" their heads more when they see a Panamera because of that.... I don`t know if that the case that RC trient to mentioned, besides the fact that is more expensive then a Cayenne....

PureBlue:

RC, I'm curious about something you've said before (and repeated above): Why would it considered acceptable - by your customers - to drive a large, expensive Porsche SUV (the Cayenne), but not acceptable to drive a large, expensive Porsche sedan (the Panamera)?

This seems like a strange, and somewhat artificial, distinction to make - given that both are large and conspicuous, both consume a lot of fuel, both are expensive, and both are Porsches - but the SUV is "acceptable", whereas the sedan is not. 

Have you seen the Cayenne in person ? Have you seen the Panamera in person ? Huge difference in size perception, the Panamera just looks huge. Once you sit behind the steering wheel of the Panamera, this car feels agile and very Porsche-like but the exterior perception is the one of a huge mass and this is something I really don't need (or want).

The Cayenne has another advantage: The somehow "japanese" look makes it dive into the masses of many many japanese or korean cross-overs here on the streets in Germany. Remove the Porsche badges and most people won't even know. I once saw a black Cayenne Turbo on a parking lot of a restaurant, even the front Porsche badge had been replaced by a black cover, it looked just like another ordinary cross-over SUV, nothing special. Amazing. I care most about the interior (I sit in this thing, right ?) and of course about the performance. Do you really think somebody would guess that this puppy has 540 horses ? Nope. This is one of the reasons I went for the BMW X5 M. Most people think this is just an ordinary X5 and since the X5 is some sort of Volks-SUV over here in Bavaria, I'm a very happy person. 

If I would live in Miami, I would very likely drive this puppy (or maybe a white Panamera Turbo S with black wheels and PCCB):

My wife loves the Bentley GT...the perfect daily commuter for the family...in Miami. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Conny997:
I hope I'm not wrong but based on my information the Cayenne Turbo S will appear along the next facelift in late 2013, early 2014. The increasing build capacities of the Cayenne, which mostly will affect the Diesel versions, are not leading in an earlier facelift.

I'm afraid you could be right, Porsche badly wants the stronger Diesel, so I think that the Turbo S will be delayed.

I don't care too much though...I have to take a decision next year around spring and right now, I have three cars on my agenda:

1. Cayenne Turbo with Powerkit

2. Panamera Turbo (S) or Powerkit

3. 997 Turbo S (don't be surprised about this one, if I get a 911 again, it has to be the fastest one I can afford and by spring 2012, Porsche Financial surely will have some lease incentives to move this baby...if Porsche still produces it).

Most likely is number one though. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC...Here's a car you might consider

2006 997 C2S Cab, Triple Black,  2006 Cayenne Titanium Iceland Silver Metalic New York

bobr:

RC...Here's a car you might consider

 

Funny enough, my wife doesn't like the Cab.  I'm also not sure if a Cab is really something she wants in Florida, her hair and skin are very important to her.  

Well...since we live in cold Germany.... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Budster:

Having read through the threads on this and other forums, I asked my UK dealer (with whom I have a GOOD RELATIONSHIP, having bought 6 Porsche cars off him over the years, and the last one was my very highly specced 2009 GT2) about  a forthcoming Turbo S configuration in 2012. He checked with Porsche Product Planning, and no release is planned in the first quarter of 2102, at earliest.

2102..? That's a 90 year wait - I've been struggling with a 6 month wait...
 

Typo of course!

I cannot think of much more that Porsche would offer on a CTS over a Cayenne Turbo with powerkit. I have ticked all the boxes I want on the configuration I have filed and can only think that they may 'standardise' some of the transmission/suspension options, e.g., PDCC, PTPP & PCCB and interior trim levels.

I personally don't like the styling package option that has recently been added.

And of course they may add engine refinements which will decrease fuel consumption, emissions, etc.

Cayenne GTS...official presentation in Detroit or Geneva, for mid 2012 availability.

Technical data (engine) is very similar to Panamera GTS.

Rumored price tag is 91000 EUR (incl. 19% german VAT).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

And the Cayenne S Diesel?

Thanks 

RC - do you think that GTS's will now be a feature across the ranges instead of being an end-of-model feature?  Surely the 958 Cayenne isn't anywhere near end-of-model yet, so why would a GTS come out so early?  I presumed that the Panamera GTS has arrived because a new model is nearing.  I'm really asking from a point of ignorance here, so I love your view on this - especially as I'm picking up my 997 GTS today(!) and would be interested to see if a 991 GTS were to be released in a year or two already!!

Yes, there will be a 991 Carrera GTS as far as I heard... no release date though but I suppose it won't come before 2013. Earliest !

The Cayenne GTS is a different story. Since Porsche introduced the GTS engine to the Panamera, it just makes sense to offer the very same engine in the Cayenne too. Both, the Panamera and the Cayenne are manufactured on the same production line, it makes a lot of sense.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4