Crown

This is all a bit strange.

A bit strange? This is very weird to point of bing non-sensical. How can the GT2 RS which is the lightest, most powerful and has the stickiest tyres (mentioned on the video) not win?

More to the point, how can the McLaren with the second most powerful engine, second lightest (debatable), stiffest chassis (with brake-steer capability), most advanced suspension set-up be beaten by a convertible Gallardo?

The Ferrari being 1.7 seconds a lap quicker than the McLaren is far too quick to make sense. Half a second perhaps but not this distance.

I would have put my money also on the GT2 RS - but probably because he disabled all electronics he could not put the power as early as he would have leaving the TC on and let the car get max HP to the wheels.....- in this case maybe the RS would be faster with some electronics still on - also as commented by WalterR once...

BjoernB:

I would have put my money also on the GT2 RS - but probably because he disabled all electronics he could not put the power as early as he would have leaving the TC on and let the car get max HP to the wheels.....- in this case maybe the RS would be faster with some electronics still on - also as commented by WalterR once...

 That could be an explanation 

Don´t think these results are accurate, 458 being faster than GT2, SLS being so slow and Lambo spyder being faster than McLaren is weird to say at least.

Anyway it´s amazing how the old 7 years old Bull still matches on every category these new hightech powered beasts, even Gallardo look which some how is a bit dated, is still better than any other on this test,  the McLaren next to it looks plain to say at least, and that engine sound  my God

J.Seven

Mclaren have responded to their poor result over on mclarenlife.com

Quote: andy c;1552
i have contacted Mark Kavanagh at the MTC today about our concerns about the test.he kindly emailed me this response after speaking to him at some  length,i have reduced it as im not the best at typing.
the car suffered a suspension failure and it was found to be between two sections of hydraulic pipe not torqued correctly and taking in air.this meant that the damping control was not optimal.the loss of roll stiffness and optimal damping therefore allowed the car to roll much more freely in braking/turn in phase causing a balance-change which was triggering a pre-mature ABS intervention.
The car used was PP18 ,This is a pre-production car and although representative of a production car was assembled in the protoype area. We understand that this problem may cause concern amongst our customers but please be assured this specific error cannot occur online with production cars as this build process is done using a digital tool that monitors torque pressures.
With just eighteen hours notice, three cars return to Rockingham later that week (including PP18) and, as witnessed by two journalists from car magazine, set the faster time reffered to at the end of their video. Infact, three laps with three cars set times of between 1:27.5 and 1:28.1. This was all timed and fed back to car magazine who were offered the GPS data for the record.
The cars used were standard cars representative of production cars with configurable corsa tires. We belive that the cars tested by the media should be as can be bought by the customer. Therefore, these cars were in no way set up for track lap times.They were simply the three remaining cars that were from our fleet.
I noticed it was implied int the video that the traction control cannot be disingaged, for the record this is not the case.
Me again,what does this tell us
1,the 12c is up to 1.3 seconds faster than a Gt2 rs around a short circuit,so what will it be on a longer one??
2,As far as im aware these are the first lap times to come from the MTC and if anyone is not sure please email me and i will forward you the original
3,Will anyone who has a 458 be prepared to contact Ferrari and get a personnal response on why their car has suddenly started beating the Gt2rs,when it has been nowhere near in the past,and how they can get their car to do the same(sorry tried not to put that in)
4,KRZYS,dont you dare give up your deposit!!!!!!!!!!
5,will car magazine put any of this in the mag tommorow

I'm not convinced by that explanation just as I'm sure few people on mclarenlife would be if Ferrari had tried the same thing had they been off the pace. At best it shows sloppy work (highly unlikely I'd venture) by a team of people who are reknowned for excellent levels of prep in F1 and whose attention to detail and QC control is probably unrivalled. I'm guessing CAR didn't feel comfortable with it either or they'd have changed their figures knowing how important the test results potentially can be both to their own reputation and that of Mclaren.

Draw your own conclusions ;)

If anything, I'm more suspicious now than before. So it suffered a failure, so what explains the results from the other magazines, more sneaky failures? and then they inmediately come up with 2 cars they "just had laying around" of course that conveniently record the fastest lap times after driving more laps than the other cars had a chance to and driven by themselves.... yeah, suuuure! If Ferrari gave the same story we would all be on the floor...

The usual McLaren lies and manipulation. (i.e. in the Spygate case: "Ferrari data? What Ferrari data?", in the Liegate case: "Lews didn't brake, that pesky Italian overtook our boy under caution!"). Nothing to see here people, please dispurse! 

A priceless post from Fchat which I thought you guys would find amusing

werewolf

To all future 12C owners : Your car may have a suspension failure, causing excessive body roll in braking and turning, and ultimately leading to premature ABS intervention. However, all these symptoms will go unnoticed by you, and your closest McLaren mechanic (making it quite difficult to diagnose), ... since they went unnoticed by an expert driver on a closed track. The only thing you might notice, is that your car is slower than a Lambo convertible. Have a nice day

 I am not sure what to make in all of this. I suspect the truth is somewhere in between. Bottom line is the 12C is a new sport car with tremendous potential. However, presently it is not what the builders represented it to be.

I still do not understand how the RS was spanked by the 458. 

nberry:

 I am not sure what to make in all of this. I suspect the truth is somewhere in between. Bottom line is the 12C is a new sport car with tremendous potential. However, presently it is not what the builders represented it to be.

I still do not understand how the RS was spanked by the 458. 

 spoke to some people that were.. hum.. there and lets just say that we should ignore those 458 results. Or we can actually count them against the potential of the upcoming scud version since this test car appears to carry some naughty components from the challenge series that add power and reduce weight..

MP4 did have a failure (my test drive car had similar hydraulic failure) but still i think the rest of the comments suggest that they have some more tweaking to do. MP4 is slightly quicker than 2RS while 458 is in reality comfortably behind those 2 with same tires. (when comparing customer non-press cars cars).

Not trying to convert the ferraristi here (REAL ZEUS etc) but the reality will come out in a few months when we see more tests. Or actually when some of us buy this car and try it real life against a 458..

GT:

 spoke to some people that were.. hum.. there and lets just say that we should ignore those 458 results. Or we can actually count them against the potential of the upcoming scud version since this test car appears to carry some naughty components from the challenge series that add power and reduce weight..

MP4 did have a failure (my test drive car had similar hydraulic failure) but still i think the rest of the comments suggest that they have some more tweaking to do. MP4 is slightly quicker than 2RS while 458 is in reality comfortably behind those 2 with same tires. (when comparing customer non-press cars cars).

Not trying to convert the ferraristi here (REAL ZEUS etc) but the reality will come out in a few months when we see more tests. Or actually when some of us buy this car and try it real life against a 458..

These tests are becoming ridiculous. don't know who to trust (besides Porsche of course ).

 well let's say that 911 458 m12 have similar performance but achieved in a different way, then it is only personal reasons that makes you choose ..... so no one is superior, just little different?!  ????

993 c2

There is no try. Just do.

So, any news from the crash at the nurburgring?

GT:

 spoke to some people that were.. hum.. there and lets just say that we should ignore those 458 results. Or we can actually count them against the potential of the upcoming scud version since this test car appears to carry some naughty components from the challenge series that add power and reduce weight..

MP4 did have a failure (my test drive car had similar hydraulic failure) but still i think the rest of the comments suggest that they have some more tweaking to do. MP4 is slightly quicker than 2RS while 458 is in reality comfortably behind those 2 with same tires. (when comparing customer non-press cars cars).

Not trying to convert the ferraristi here (REAL ZEUS etc) but the reality will come out in a few months when we see more tests. Or actually when some of us buy this car and try it real life against a 458..

There are 4 tests already (Evo, CAR, Autocar and AutoExpress) and Ferrari won all 4 of them. Remember, that is just the british press!  I guess that national pride is clouding your judgement mate...

GT:
Not trying to convert the ferraristi here (REAL ZEUS etc) ...

C'mon, you did not really believe seriously that you could do that, did you?

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

ISUK:

A priceless post from Fchat which I thought you guys would find amusing

 

werewolf

To all future 12C owners : Your car may have a suspension failure, causing excessive body roll in braking and turning, and ultimately leading to premature ABS intervention. However, all these symptoms will go unnoticed by you, and your closest McLaren mechanic (making it quite difficult to diagnose), ... since they went unnoticed by an expert driver on a closed track. The only thing you might notice, is that your car is slower than a Lambo convertible. Have a nice day

 

REALZEUS:

GT:

 spoke to some people that were.. hum.. there and lets just say that we should ignore those 458 results. Or we can actually count them against the potential of the upcoming scud version since this test car appears to carry some naughty components from the challenge series that add power and reduce weight..

MP4 did have a failure (my test drive car had similar hydraulic failure) but still i think the rest of the comments suggest that they have some more tweaking to do. MP4 is slightly quicker than 2RS while 458 is in reality comfortably behind those 2 with same tires. (when comparing customer non-press cars cars).

Not trying to convert the ferraristi here (REAL ZEUS etc) but the reality will come out in a few months when we see more tests. Or actually when some of us buy this car and try it real life against a 458..

 

 

There are 4 tests already (Evo, CAR, Autocar and AutoExpress) and Ferrari won all 4 of them. Remember, that is just the british press!  I guess that national pride is clouding your judgement mate...

Four tests McLaren vs Ferrar 458 

Did I miss something? Which tests are you referring to?

 The four different tests of the british press MKSGR...

--
FERRARI RULES!!!

REALZEUS:

 The four different tests of the british press MKSGR...

 

 Could you possibly post the results (lap times)? I did not know there are already four comparison tests with lap times available 

MKSGR:

REALZEUS:

 The four different tests of the british press MKSGR...

Could you possibly post the results (lap times)? I did not know there are already four comparison tests with lap times available 

Naughty you, Markus...

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Rossi:

MKSGR:

REALZEUS:

 The four different tests of the british press MKSGR...

Could you possibly post the results (lap times)? I did not know there are already four comparison tests with lap times available 

 

Naughty you, Markus...

Only two of the tests posted lap times - EVO and CAR. In both of those the Italia was quicker. Top Gear magazine, Autocar and AutoExpress all ran comparison tests and both Top Gear and Autocar said the Mclaren was faster on the road but every one of the 5 reviews has said they'd take the keys of the 458 in preference to the Mclaren for real world driving. All of them suggested that the Mclaren is somewhat soul less between 5/10ths and 8/10ths which is where most owners will drive their cars in terms of real world usage.

It is personal choice at this level I agree and all are great cars. I'm looking forward to seeing Mclaren's next model to see what design influence Frank Stephenson has had after he arrived too late to do very much other than tweaking of the 12C.

REALZEUS:

GT:

 spoke to some people that were.. hum.. there and lets just say that we should ignore those 458 results. Or we can actually count them against the potential of the upcoming scud version since this test car appears to carry some naughty components from the challenge series that add power and reduce weight..

MP4 did have a failure (my test drive car had similar hydraulic failure) but still i think the rest of the comments suggest that they have some more tweaking to do. MP4 is slightly quicker than 2RS while 458 is in reality comfortably behind those 2 with same tires. (when comparing customer non-press cars cars).

Not trying to convert the ferraristi here (REAL ZEUS etc) but the reality will come out in a few months when we see more tests. Or actually when some of us buy this car and try it real life against a 458..

 

 

There are 4 tests already (Evo, CAR, Autocar and AutoExpress) and Ferrari won all 4 of them. Remember, that is just the british press!  I guess that national pride is clouding your judgement mate...

same 458 car.. So not surprising

The Italia that Evo used is the new UK demo car. So you can discharge any conspriracy theories as it is not a prototype being hidden back in Italy! You can go and drive it and buy it if you like! I find this mistrust in Ferrari products appalling... On the other hand everyone is happy to take Ron the Liar at face value... go figure!!!

REALZEUS:

On the other hand everyone is happy to take Ron the Liar at face value... go figure!!!

+1
 

ISUK:

Only two of the tests posted lap times - EVO and CAR. In both of those the Italia was quicker. Top Gear magazine, Autocar and AutoExpress all ran comparison tests and both Top Gear and Autocar said the Mclaren was faster on the road but every one of the 5 reviews has said they'd take the keys of the 458 in preference to the Mclaren for real world driving. All of them suggested that the Mclaren is somewhat soul less between 5/10ths and 8/10ths which is where most owners will drive their cars in terms of real world usage.

It is personal choice at this level I agree and all are great cars. I'm looking forward to seeing Mclaren's next model to see what design influence Frank Stephenson has had after he arrived too late to do very much other than tweaking of the 12C.

 

 Did the EVO test also include the GT2RS? 

 No, the Evo test included the Turbo S instead.

REALZEUS:

 No, the Evo test included the Turbo S instead.

Ah, best allround sportscar of the world.
 

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.