Crown

Fritz, I think you've hit the nail on the head - which is why I think I'll have to settle for Aqua Blue (if I want a blue GTS).

Worse things have happened...

PureBlue:

Doug, thanks for the feedback.  As I mentioned in my original post, reading the reviews from yourself and John has really fired up my interest in the GTS.  Outside of the GT3 / GT3 RS, I have little doubt that it is the pick of the 997s.

I guess I have only two niggling doubts left before making the final call:
1.  Is it sufficiently different from my current 997.1 C2S (with Sport Chrono, PSE, PASM) to be a compelling buy?
2. Given how close we are to the introduction of the 991, wouldn't it make sense to wait for the new model?

Decisions, decisions!!!

 Personally I would wait for the 991 at this point of time, especially if you already own a 997.1.

Cayenne S White/Espresso delivery Oct 2011

PureBlue:

Doug, thanks for the feedback.  As I mentioned in my original post, reading the reviews from yourself and John has really fired up my interest in the GTS.  Outside of the GT3 / GT3 RS, I have little doubt that it is the pick of the 997s.

I guess I have only two niggling doubts left before making the final call:
1.  Is it sufficiently different from my current 997.1 C2S (with Sport Chrono, PSE, PASM) to be a compelling buy?
2. Given how close we are to the introduction of the 991, wouldn't it make sense to wait for the new model?

Decisions, decisions!!!

I drove a GTS Cab(PDK, PCCB, LSD, sport bucket seats, Sport Chrono Plus, amazing combo) last weekend for around 200 km and I owned a 997 Carrera S (first gen) with 20 mm sport chassis, so maybe I can give my take on this one: The GTS is just a fantastic Carrera, the sound of the PSE is also amazing and I still wonder if the car I drove didn't have a faulty PSE because there was no cut-out in the lower speed range(unless I was applying full throttle) and the exhaust sounded really nice. Compared to the 997.1 C2S, the GTS is a rocket, you get over 50 horses more, there is no doubt about the power plus. 

The question is however: Do you really need a 997 GTS right now or could you wait another 6-12 months? No doubt, the GTS is probably the most refined 997 Carrera ever built and it is a good Porsche and an even better 911 but the 991 is just around the corner and you need to think very well about it. 

Personally, I would probably lease a GTS for the shortest period of time possible(12, 18 or 24 months) and then go for the 991. A buying decision is more difficult since the 997 will surely loose value as a used car as soon as the 991 is introduced.

Decisions... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

PureBlue:

Doug, thanks for the feedback.  As I mentioned in my original post, reading the reviews from yourself and John has really fired up my interest in the GTS.  Outside of the GT3 / GT3 RS, I have little doubt that it is the pick of the 997s.

I guess I have only two niggling doubts left before making the final call:
1.  Is it sufficiently different from my current 997.1 C2S (with Sport Chrono, PSE, PASM) to be a compelling buy?
2. Given how close we are to the introduction of the 991, wouldn't it make sense to wait for the new model?

Decisions, decisions!!!

Welcome to the board and soon to GTS owners...

1. IMO remarkable move vs 997.1 CS... PASM/SPASM is highly defined now and motor gives you 53 hp extra, which are noticable.

2. I had been thru the same decision... just moving from a 997.2 Carrara S to a GTS or 991!? A year ago I always thought going straight to the 991. I changed that due to the GTS, which is 911 Carrara as I always wanted it to be. Further  991 is coming just really by almost end of year in germany (September). Likely all options are not available from start.  991 will be a step performance wise, maybe mainly from suspension. Pure hp or torque shoulnd´t be that different to GTS, may be drivebility.   Aside to that I had the switch from 993 to 996 in mind... 991 will be huge from dimension standpoint.   At the end, I decided for the GTS and I am really happy with it!  For me its the perfect car... Mine will be delivered in few days. Can´t wait for it.   Either way...997 or 991...its a 911, which is never a wrong choice.

Paint to sample... I had that in mind also, was kean to go for a unique color. I skipped that due to the unconfirmed delivery dates...I didn´t want to have the car in late summer.

Welcome to the forum, PureBlue! The decision for or against a GTS should be centered around the financial outlay as hardly anything would speak against it if you are able and willing to afford it.

Regarding the presentation of the 991 model at the end of the year, I would hesitate to [special] order a car and be even more inclined to check with dealer inventories. Me, as others mentioned above, would not get a new model within its first year of production if it can be avoided. That way you would have a a timespan of one to two years to enjoy the car before considering the step towards the 991.

Last but not least, I am not a huge fan of Aqua Blue on the 911 as I find this colour to flashy but not as straightforward as the PTS solid blues such as Pure Blue or Riviera. On a sidenote, I was under the impression that the colours as well as some options [such as the painted headlight surrounds] on the Sport Classic and Speedster editions remain unobtainable for the regular 997 models. As attractive as I find Aqua Blue on the Boxster and Cayman, I would choose Dark Blue on all 911 models except of the GT3.

PureBlue:

Doug, thanks for the feedback.  As I mentioned in my original post, reading the reviews from yourself and John has really fired up my interest in the GTS.  Outside of the GT3 / GT3 RS, I have little doubt that it is the pick of the 997s.

I guess I have only two niggling doubts left before making the final call:
1.  Is it sufficiently different from my current 997.1 C2S (with Sport Chrono, PSE, PASM) to be a compelling buy?
2. Given how close we are to the introduction of the 991, wouldn't it make sense to wait for the new model?

Decisions, decisions!!!

 To be honest, I would rather wait for the 991. The Carrera and Carrera S are the first two models they normally introduce.

First 991 Carrera and Carrera S should be available at german dealers in December.

There are also some rumors saying that Porsche could actually start 991 deliveries right after the IAA in September but we had no confirmation for this.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

Regarding the presentation of the 991 model at the end of the year, I would hesitate to [special] order a car and be even more inclined to check with dealer inventories. Me, as others mentioned above, would not get a new model within its first year of production if it can be avoided. That way you would have a a timespan of one to two years to enjoy the car before considering the step towards the 991.

 

Ferdi...

PureBlue, I fully understand  your indecision regarding the GTS vs the coming 991.  I agonized over the same decision for a while myself , however, I came from a Boxster S not a 911 so my decision was easier, for sure!

Personally, I always wanted a GT3 or GT3 RS, however, I always felt they were bit too hardcore for me, not too mention that I loved the open top Boxster S and was certain I would sorely miss the sunshine (with a GT3) when I am cruising along all the beautiful "Porsche roads" we are blessed with here in California!

Anyway, when the GTS came out it was the perfect cross between GT3 and Carrera for me!   

Now, is it really more of a Carrera than a GT3?  YES, by all means!  However, as many drivers of both and written articles have stated, "that is NOT necessarily a bad thing"! 

I purchased my GTS and yes, it will depreciate rapidly at first but I will likely not make another move within the next 4 or 5 years so leasing does not make sense to me, however, if you prefer to dump a new car every couple of years, go for the GTS and turn in in for a 2013 or 2014 991, after the 991 has been out for awhile...and after you get tired of driving the GTS! 

...just kidding (sort of)   

IMHO, with you coming from a 911 it is understandable that you would most prefer to have the new technology "991-S" perhaps. However, I agree with others that it is more of a financial decision rather than a driving decision.   You can always lease ("rent") the GTS for a couple of years and dump it after the 991 has been out for awhile...if money is no big concern. 

Anyway, the answers will come as they do for us all...when you are ready! 

Thanks to everyone for all the comments and advice - can't say they've made the decision much easier, but they've certainly given me a lot to think about.

Will let you know which way I ultimately decide to go.

 PureBlue

I also wanted to get PTS, but the dealer scared me saying that it might add another 2-3 months. I was a little undecided as to whether I should wait for 991 or not, but then I decided that I would get the 991 after its mid-cycle update. So for now I am happy with my GTS order. 

I would go for the GTS - absolut stunning car....and unless you want a interior closer looking to a Panamera/Cayenne designwise in the 991. Engine wise there will be a couple of HP difference and yes the 2nd generation PDK might be faster - but despite long waiting times mostsurely you have to consider the price difference of a nicely specced 991 vs a actual GTS...

I decided mainly engine wise for the RS - I wanted a Mezger-engine and no DFI and 3.8 Liter 450hp sounded just fine  

It all depends on how often someone changes cars. I would go for the GTS if I planned to keep the car for 1-2 years. But for longer term ownership I'd wait for the 991.

"Form follows function"

I think the decision depends on whether one plans to get a 991 and if so, then when.

Those buyers who plan to get a 991 soon after its launch or within a relatively short time, for them, a GTS purchase is debatable.

For those buyers who will wait till the 991 is well into its lifecycle, getting a GTS to last till then makes a lot of sense.

RT Moderator - 997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

Ferdie:

Welcome to the forum, PureBlue! The decision for or against a GTS should be centered around the financial outlay as hardly anything would speak against it if you are able and willing to afford it.

Regarding the presentation of the 991 model at the end of the year, I would hesitate to [special] order a car and be even more inclined to check with dealer inventories. Me, as others mentioned above, would not get a new model within its first year of production if it can be avoided. That way you would have a a timespan of one to two years to enjoy the car before considering the step towards the 991.

@ PureBlue...I totally agree with Ferdie on this and it was exactly the rationale that prompted me to order a GTS when it was first announced last September..

Mine, and other current GTS owner's sentiments, are well documented in this thread.  I would only add that, as my previous car was a C2S with a similar spec' to yours, believe me you will definitely notice a huge difference between the two..

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

Welcome to the forum PureBlue! A great introduction I love blue cars as well btw.

As for your dilemma, really ask yourself what this GTS is for? 

Will you keep it forever? Or could you see yourself itching to get the 991 just as you did with the Carrera? Also, how important is PTS for you, because if you lease you won't have that option likely. I would opt for leasing a GTS if you can see yourself at all wanting to move to the new 911. The GTS is fantastic, so definitely go for one, but consider what/how long you will use it for before jumping. Indeed if you buy a specced GTS, it will cost you if you sell on in just a couple of years. If you know you will want to keep it, that just get it.

indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 

PureBlue, if you are still asking the question after all the replies, then I suggest you wait for the 991...

Then the next question will be,,, just how many variants of the 991 will there be.....

Good luck with your decision.

throt

"I didn't do it"

Throt, no worries, I think the decision's pretty much made.  Lots of good points in all the replies, but I think we all know that when it comes to buying a new 911, it's not about what we NEED, but about what we WANT.  Of course I don't need a GTS right now, but I sure as hell want one!

Heading over to the OPC tomorrow - will post an update when I get back.

Don't forget your chequebook - have fun

RT Moderator - 997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

So...I've taken the plunge and decided to join the growing ranks of soon-to-be Carrera GTS owners.  Signed the order and paid the deposit today, now I'm just waiting for confirmation of a build slot to get a better idea of likely delivery date - looks like I'll have to wait until Oct/Nov.  BTW here's an eye-watering fact for those of you buying Porsches in Europe or the US - given the level of import duties and other taxes in South Africa, the GTS (as specced below) is going to set me back 1.25 million rand, which equates to around 112000 sterling, 125000 euro or $182000.  Yikes! 

Along the lines of some of the wise advice above, I decided that it would not be a good idea to order a 991 in its first year of production.  Although I think that we're all eventually going to end up loving (and lusting after) the 991 - after some inevitable initial misgivings - I'm happy to drive the GTS for the next 2 years or so and perhaps buy a 991 after its mid-cycle update (and after any initial teething problems have been ironed out).

Unfortunately I wasn't able to order the GTS in my preferred PTS colour of Pure Blue and decided not to pursue my other PTS blue preferences (Maritime, Adriatic, etc) as a result of the signifcant uncertainty this would imply for delivery time.  I considered Aqua Blue as an alternative, but decided against this as it is just too bright and flashy a colour for the GTS IMO.  (I specifically wanted a non-metallic blue).  In the end I decided to go with Carrara White.  I think it was John H who said something along the lines of "this car was born to be white with black interior", and I have to agree.  (BTW while I'm not normally a fan of bright red cars, the GTS also seems to look fantastic in Guards Red - have a look at the car featured on the front page and pp 6-13 of Total 911 issue 73).

Full spec as below: 911 Carrera GTS with manual transmission

The standard stuff:
     B4     Carrara White
     78     Black leather interior, seats leather/alcantara
     422   19 inch RS Spyder wheel with centre lock
     176   Sports exhaust system
     P77   Sports seats
     685    Rear seats

The cool stuff:
     640    Sport Chrono Package Plus
     P17    PASM sports chassis (-20mm) with limited slip rear differential lock
     482    Tyre pressure monitoring system (TPM)

...and some fluff:
     619    Preparation for mobile phone
     810    Floor mats
     567    Windscreen with grey top tint

BTW while I'm not usually too fussed about interior aesthetics, I just couldn't live with the crappy plastic (leatherette?)  on the dashboard and doors - hence the leather interior option, which brings back the stitched leather I'm used to in these areas, but leaves the alcantara intact on the seatbacks, steering wheel, handbrake, etc.  The best of both worlds IMO.

Here's an interesting titbit: the dealer told me that they've sold about 30 GTSs in Cape Town to date - and every single one of those was ordered with PDK.  They actually tried to talk me out of getting a manual.  Astonishing (or at least I thought so).  Looks like I'm going to have the only manual GTS in town.

Now the only question is: How the hell am I going to make it through the next 5-6 months? 

Congratulations!

Your wait will be rewarded with a great car...

(Maybe plan some unpleasant stuff for the next few months? Such things tend to come up pretty quick.)

cdixon:

John H:

I am thinking about trying black rear stone chip guards a la the Speedster.  The clear ones are difficult to keep clean particularly on the edges..

 

You can clean the film using a white wall tyre cleaner (Duragloss #701 WTC) and the edges of the film can be kept clean using a wooden tooth pick, or an Autoglym plastic sponge (magic sponge). 

Chris, I ordered the Autoglym "Magic Sponges" from Amazon and they arrived today..

I then washed and dried my car and, sure enough, dirt remained on the edges of the stone guards...so it was out with a magic sponge and it worked an absolute treat..

Absolutely no sign of dirt remained on the edges with very limited effort.  That was a great tip you gave...many thanks..

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

 Congrats !!! White and manual - very good choice !  

BjoernB:

 Congrats !!! White and manual - very good choice !  

 
+1  Sincere congrats - you are going to love this car 

RT Moderator - 997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

PureBlue:

BTW here's an eye-watering fact for those of you buying Porsches in Europe or the US - given the level of import duties and other taxes in South Africa, the GTS (as specced below) is going to set me back 1.25 million rand, which equates to around 112000 sterling, 125000 euro or $182000.  Yikes! 

 Congratulations! Don't worry, I feel the same pain 

PureBlue, congrats on your buy, buddy.

Enjoy it in good health.........

throt

"I didn't do it"

Congrats PureBlue

Great choice & spec. The only thing I suggest you consider is the Carerra Sport Wheels especially since you intend to occassionally track the car. The RS wheels need to be re-tourqed before & after each track session & can only be done at the OPC. A pain in the a-- IMO. A seperate thread on Rennteam discusses this at length.

At least you have your current 911 to ease the waiting time

Thanks to all for the good wishes.

Gilmour, I did consider that issue i.r.o. the RS wheels.  I understood they had to be torqued to around 500 for road use, but 600 for the track.  I discussed this with the dealer, who told me that in terms of a recent technical directive from PAG, they've been told to torque to 600 for road AND track use.  This is what they do now - torque to 600 on delivery.

It would be interesting to hear if anyone else has further info on this issue.

 Cape Town must be the perfect place to enjoy the GTS! 

2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso delivery Oct 2011

PureBlue,

Congrats!!!   You will love this truly classic 911  ...and we may be the only two owners with manual transmissions! 

It was my opinion that the GTS was "born to be white"...and IMHO it is a totally stunning look!  I had to wait 5 months too...

Hang in there!! 

John,

If you keep a nice bead of wax around the edges of your stone chip guards, they are easier to keep clean.  I have the clear armour protection all over the front of the car, headlights, side view mirrors, door edges, handles, thresholds and wheel wells and keeping wax along the edges is the key to keeping them clean looking!    

I love the clear armour and the new formula they used does not yellow!   

John H:

cdixon:

John H:

I am thinking about trying black rear stone chip guards a la the Speedster.  The clear ones are difficult to keep clean particularly on the edges..

 

You can clean the film using a white wall tyre cleaner (Duragloss #701 WTC) and the edges of the film can be kept clean using a wooden tooth pick, or an Autoglym plastic sponge (magic sponge). 

Chris, I ordered the Autoglym "Magic Sponges" from Amazon and they arrived today..

I then washed and dried my car and, sure enough, dirt remained on the edges of the stone guards...so it was out with a magic sponge and it worked an absolute treat..

Absolutely no sign of dirt remained on the edges with very limited effort.  That was a great tip you gave...many thanks..

 

 No problem, they were recomended to me by Tom at Paintshield.  Also they work very well at getting scuffs out of the plastic door entry guards make sure you dampen them first.