Crown

You are right of course  looks like a typo

2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN

I think you are still on the right track, though.  Look at the 100-160 km/h on a Ruf 600...so how much power is the Champion tune making? 

Great googlie mooglie!  $250K US?!?

champion.pdf

www.dupontregistry.com/autos/Search/DRauSearchDetails.aspx?itemid=783507

You know I like Ruf but that RT 600 did not do very good times for some reason ?

Accelerates like a 550hp 997tt looking at those times.....

--

2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN

bbywu:

Great googlie mooglie!  $250K US?!?

champion.pdf

www.dupontregistry.com/autos/Search/DRauSearchDetails.aspx?itemid=783507

Bob, great goolie mooglie is right! I'll even add a Holy Macaroni -- I don't think this kit as is will sell well.

I posted this question below. What do you think about the carbon parts? Are they necessary for flow? Can't they just make an aluminum unit for less cost?

Artur, there is a separate thread on the turbo somewhere that I am too busy to look now (watching basketball). Search there, you'll find it.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Wow that's a lot of $$$. But to be fair, one could concentrate on the performance portion only, which is the "engine" section below.

It would be nice to know what just the engine improvement costs? I also wonder if you could further get rid of the 2 carbon pieces and not affect performance much? It's carbon for the weight saving, not for any functional improvement, no?
If you do these things, then you would be down to the core of this package: GIAC tune, turbo, intercooler, header. I imagine one could even switch out the Tubi for any preferred 200 cat exhaust.

Engine
- CMS Billet Compressor turbochargers with 68mm 7 blade wheels
- CMS (new for 2010) intercooler upgrade, including silicon hoses and hardware
- *********Werks1 carbon Y-pipe for 2010 cars
- CMS compressor inlet adapters (increased flow)
- ********* Werks1 carbon air box for 2010 cars
- CMS exhaust manifolds, 3 into 1 equal length headers
- *********Tubi Style Race exhaust system
- GIAC high performance software proprietary to CMS

Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

sorry...

i just think these results are under my expectation...

a stock 997TT pdk does the quarter in 11 flat sec....

a really modded TT pdk with larger turbos and everything else did 10,6....

lots of money and changes for 0,4 sec????

a ECU TUNED AND EXHAUST TT pdk probably will  do this kind of numbers...

im talking about     0-60, 0 -100  and quarter....

NOT IMPRESSED AT ALL.

artur777:

 factory leak - absolutely

780 nm is the limit of GTR tranny

790 nm is the limit of PDK TT

Would you know the limit for teh Carrera S PDK? Would love to know that info.

J.Seven

xandi911:

sorry...

 

 

i just think these results are under my expectation...

 

a stock 997TT pdk does the quarter in 11 flat sec....

 

 

a really modded TT pdk with larger turbos and everything else did 10,6....

 

lots of money and changes for 0,4 sec????

 

a ECU TUNED AND EXHAUST TT pdk probably will  do this kind of numbers...

 

im talking about     0-60, 0 -100  and quarter....

NOT IMPRESSED AT ALL.

We can extrapolate the 60-130mph time from the data they gave:

0-60mph:  2.6s

0-133.2mph: 10.6s

So 60-130mph in ~7.8s

Now factor back in 3 gear manual gearchanges ~0.9s

We get 60-130mph in 8.7s (note this does not allow for the massively beneficial effect of the boost staying up during PDK changes)

I am still thinking this car has no more than 550PS

2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN

TB993tt:

 

We can extrapolate the 60-130mph time from the data they gave:

0-60mph:  2.6s

0-133.2mph: 10.6s

So 60-130mph in ~7.8s

Now factor back in 3 gear manual gearchanges ~0.9s

We get 60-130mph in 8.7s (note this does not allow for the massively beneficial effect of the boost staying up during PDK changes)

I am still thinking this car has no more than 550PS

Very good and interesting point. Whatever acceleration test that eliminates the advantage of PDK during a shift will show the true merit of the engine & the tuning.
But...  there is one shift, namely 3rd to 4th, with a 60-130 run, no?

Personally, I wouldn't pay too much attention to the power of this kit though. They already point out the tune is limited by the PDK (nothing to do with the tune). That said, then I have one question: is all that hardware then necessary? Do you really need a intercooler and a a larger turbo when power is ceiling'ed by PDK? Intercooler yes, but larger turbo too when torque is limited to a relatively low 790 Nm/580 ft lbf?

The problem I see with this kit is the $$$, not the PDK related limited power. They need to get rid of the carbon "bling" (Toby's lingo ) in the engine bay.
 

Criticism about $$$ aside, this kit remains the number one choice among the US tuners IMHO. 2.6 sec 0-60 in a limited tune is un-real and again points out the astounding synergy of PDK and turbo.

--

Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

I think a 997tt.1 needs 5th gear to do a 60-130..... standard they do 127mph in 4th....

Agree on the unreal 2.6s 0-60 it is truly mind bending isn't it ?

I am not necessarily trying to be critical here, just cutting through the "fluff" (Tuners always quote whatever hp numbers they want, AWE think you can get stock 997tt.1 turbos to 650hp which is nearly 100hp more than any of the top Euro boys) to estimate what power is really being produced since it forms part of the discussions we have had on the reliability threshold of the new Dfi motor.

The 997tt.1 with RS engine dyno 544PS/798NM (like Alex's) did 100-200kph through manual 2nd 3rd and 4th in 7.1s so ~0.6s in gearchanges and (non PDK) boost drop. Do we think this car is faster than 6.5s ?

2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN

G97.50 6speed manual transmission
iZ 3.818, 2.136, 1.481, 1.181, 0.974, 0.791
iA 3.444

1st gear
Manual 41.5 mph
Auto 49.69 mph

2nd gear
Manual 74.2 mph
Auto 81.45 mph

3rd gear
Manual 107 mph
Auto 126.51

4th gear
Manual 134.2 mph
Auto 178.38

5th gear
Manual 162.7 mph
Auto 214.91 mph

6th gear
Manual 200.3 mph

So..technically, you could do a single shift to fourth.

On another note, I suspect that PDK is limiting the tuning on this car...I wouldn't be surprised that this car is slightly detuned to prevent slipping.  Until that problem is solved, I have a feeling this may be a limiting factor.

xandi911:

sorry...

 

 

i just think these results are under my expectation...

 

a stock 997TT pdk does the quarter in 11 flat sec....

 

 

a really modded TT pdk with larger turbos and everything else did 10,6....

 

lots of money and changes for 0,4 sec????

 

a ECU TUNED AND EXHAUST TT pdk probably will  do this kind of numbers...

 

im talking about     0-60, 0 -100  and quarter....

NOT IMPRESSED AT ALL.

Did you read this part ?

All runs experienced some level of wheel spin, and results on a proper drag strip may be improved.

bbywu:

G97.50 6speed manual transmission
iZ 3.818, 2.136, 1.481, 1.181, 0.974, 0.791
iA 3.444

1st gear
Manual 41.5 mph
Auto 49.69 mph

2nd gear
Manual 74.2 mph
Auto 81.45 mph

3rd gear
Manual 107 mph
Auto 126.51

4th gear
Manual 134.2 mph
Auto 178.3
5th gear
Manual 162.7 mph
Auto 214.91 mph

6th gear
Manual 200.3 mph

 

So..technically, you could do a single shift to fourth.

On another note, I suspect that PDK is limiting the tuning on this car...I wouldn't be surprised that this car is slightly detuned to prevent slipping.  Until that problem is solved, I have a feeling this may be a limiting factor.

From Sport Auto test I have maximum speed per gear at:

1st 68kph = 42mph

2nd 116kph = 72,1mph

3rd 163kph = 101.3mph

4th 205kph = 127.4mph

5th 258kph = 160.3mph

6th 310kph = 192.6mph
 

These are measured speeds at rev limiter

--
 

2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN

The numbers I posted are based on gear and final drive ratios with a 6750 RPM limit gears 1-5, and 6800 RPM 6th gear.  But fuel shut off is 7000 RPM.  When I sat down at at Excel, my numbers were a little off, but it still seems that a 3rd gear roll on into 4th would be fine.  I think the reason we don't see these 4th gear 130mph limit is because most cars runing these numbers are tuned, raising the RPM limit to 7200ish. 

Tire info, 305/30-19

305 = tire width in millimeteres

30 = aspect ratio (% of width for sidewall depth)

19 = wheel diameter

G97.50 6speed manual transmission

iZ 3.818, 2.136, 1.481, 1.181, 0.974, 0.791

iA 3.444

Fuel shut off is 7000 RPM

TD = ((width(mm) * aspect ratio(%) x 2) / 25.4) + Wheel Diameter

TD = 26.2 inches

GR = iZ * iA

MPH = (RPM * TD (Tire Diameter from above)) / (GR * 336)

MPH based on fuel shut off and 6750/6800 redline

1st 41.5 mph with fuel shutoff, 40.0 mph at redline

2nd 74.2 mph with fuel shutoff, 71.5 mph at redline

3rd 107.0 mph with fuel shutoff, 103.2 mph at redline

4th 134.2 mph with fuel shutoff, 129.4 mph at redline

5th 162.7 mph with fuel shutoff, 156.9 mph at redline

6th 200.4 mph with fuel shutoff, 194.6 mph at redline

Bob & Toby, didn't eclou have a vbox documented run that shows 1 gear 3-4 shift? I don't have it with me here but can post later when I am home.

Also, a friend :-) seems to think that there is no need to shift out of fourth to get to 130 in his car. No vbox document but he thinks the limiter cuts in at around 132 or so, assuming speedometer is correct and assuming it's not limiter cutting in before 132, and momentum carrying further to 132.

--
 

Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

BiTurbo:

xandi911:

sorry...

 

 

i just think these results are under my expectation...

 

a stock 997TT pdk does the quarter in 11 flat sec....

 

 

a really modded TT pdk with larger turbos and everything else did 10,6....

 

lots of money and changes for 0,4 sec????

 

a ECU TUNED AND EXHAUST TT pdk probably will  do this kind of numbers...

 

im talking about     0-60, 0 -100  and quarter....

NOT IMPRESSED AT ALL.

Did you read this part ?

All runs experienced some level of wheel spin, and results on a proper drag strip may be improved.

yes i did...
 

BTW, that EVOMS PDK  with only ECU and exhaust will be faster than this car with no DOUBT.

and about the wheel spin i saw the video of the test in the quarter... and the place where they did the test has a nice grip

Here´s EVOMS tuned car results, amazing performance.

000-300 km/h:
997 GT2 (Stock) = 36.2s
997TT.1 (Stock) = 40.7s
997TT.2 (Stock) = 41.9s
997TT.2 (EVOMS Tuned) = 29.90s
 

200-300 km/h:
997 GT2 (Stock) = 22.1s
997TT.1 (Stock) = 28.5s
997TT.2 (Stock) = 31.1s
997TT.2 (EVOMS Tuned)= 19.85s
 

J.Seven

bbywu:
.....

G97.50 6speed manual transmission
iZ 3.818, 2.136, 1.481, 1.181, 0.974, 0.791
iA 3.444
Fuel shut off is 7000 RPM 

TD = ((width(mm) * aspect ratio(%) x 2) / 25.4) + Wheel Diameter
TD = 26.2 inches
GR = iZ * iA

MPH = (RPM * TD (Tire Diameter from above)) / (GR * 336)

MPH based on fuel shut off and 6750/6800 redline

1st 41.5 mph with fuel shutoff, 40.0 mph at redline
2nd 74.2 mph with fuel shutoff, 71.5 mph at redline
3rd 107.0 mph with fuel shutoff, 103.2 mph at redline
4th 134.2 mph with fuel shutoff, 129.4 mph at redline
5th 162.7 mph with fuel shutoff, 156.9 mph at redline
6th 200.4 mph with fuel shutoff, 194.6 mph at redline

Wow... nice/impressive analysis. As mentioned, my friend thinks he saw 132 in 4th gear, so I do believe that you don't need to shift out of 4th for a 60-130 run.

Bob/Toby, the VBox data from eclou is below, showing what looks like a single 3-4 shift? (I believe eclou got a ticket and suffered a flat tire from this run. It's an expensive chart.) BTW, my note on it says: eclou, GIAC stage 2,  blended race fuel 104-93, no wind, 85F.

--

Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

J.Seven:

Here´s EVOMS tuned car results, amazing performance.

000-300 km/h:
997 GT2 (Stock) = 36.2s
997TT.1 (Stock) = 40.7s
997TT.2 (Stock) = 41.9s
997TT.2 (EVOMS Tuned) = 29.90s
 

200-300 km/h:
997 GT2 (Stock) = 22.1s
997TT.1 (Stock) = 28.5s
997TT.2 (Stock) = 31.1s
997TT.2 (EVOMS Tuned)= 19.85s
 

J.Seven

something wrong... if the GT2 took 36,2 sec to 300km/h   

and 200 to 300  in 22,1 sec 

so  36,2 - 22,1 = 14,1 sec in the 0 to 200km/h ????

J.Seven:

Here´s EVOMS tuned car results, amazing performance.

000-300 km/h:
997 GT2 (Stock) = 36.2s
997TT.1 (Stock) = 40.7s
997TT.2 (Stock) = 41.9s
997TT.2 (EVOMS Tuned) = 29.90s
 997tt.1 (Cargraphic 544PS/798NM) = 29.2s (manual gearbox - like Alex's)

200-300 km/h:
997 GT2 (Stock) = 22.1s
997TT.1 (Stock) = 28.5s
997TT.2 (Stock) = 31.1s
997TT.2 (EVOMS Tuned)= 19.85s
 997tt.1 (Cargraphic 544PS/798NM) = 18.8s (manual gearbox - like Alex's)

J.Seven

They say the weight is 1630kg with full fuel and driver + passenger
Like I said ~550PS is what these guys are getting on the road......

That 997GT2 test should be 25.1s 200-300kph

--
 

2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN

TB993tt:

J.Seven:

Here´s EVOMS tuned car results, amazing performance.

000-300 km/h:
997 GT2 (Stock) = 36.2s
997TT.1 (Stock) = 40.7s
997TT.2 (Stock) = 41.9s
997TT.2 (EVOMS Tuned) = 29.90s
 997tt.1 (Cargraphic 544PS/798NM) = 29.2s (manual gearbox - like Alex's)

200-300 km/h:
997 GT2 (Stock) = 22.1s
997TT.1 (Stock) = 28.5s
997TT.2 (Stock) = 31.1s
997TT.2 (EVOMS Tuned)= 19.85s
 997tt.1 (Cargraphic 544PS/798NM) = 18.8s (manual gearbox - like Alex's)

J.Seven

 

They say the weight is 1630kg with full fuel and driver + passenger
Like I said ~550PS is what these guys are getting on the road......

That 997GT2 test should be 25.1s 200-300kph

 

 How credible do you think the above data is? I mean: 997TT with 544hp/PDK doing 0-300 in 29s  I don't believe this to be true. Most likely the test car (not a regular customer car, right?) had more like 600hp  

MKSGR:

 

 How credible do you think the above data is? I mean: 997TT with 544hp/PDK doing 0-300 in 29s  I don't believe this to be true. Most likely the test car (not a regular customer car, right?) had more like 600hp  

I think we discussed all these CG numbers before a while back and I share your sceptisism that the tests took place as advertised.

The 544PS package was magazine tested 0-100 in 3.3s and 0-200 in 10.4s, not sure about the 0-300, it wasn't published in that test.

I think it is correct however: consider my 993tt with wide 993GT2 wheel arch extensions. standard 993tt is Cd: 0.34 and CdA 0.656 so mine would have been quite a bit worse - with 577PS it dod 0-300kph in 28.9s

The 997tt was measured by Sport Auto Cd: 0.29 and CdA 0.59 - it is a very slippy car. My experience says the 0-300kph number is right.

We need alex to do an independant RT test for us, I'll try and get him on board for the next UK vmax event

2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN

cannga:

Bob/Toby, the VBox data from eclou is below, showing what looks like a single 3-4 shift? (I believe eclou got a ticket and suffered a flat tire from this run. It's an expensive chart.) BTW, my note on it says: eclou, GIAC stage 2,  blended race fuel 104-93, no wind, 85F.

It's funny how many time Gene's data keeps popping up.  :)

You'll have to ask him, but I think his version of the GIAC tune at the time had a raised rev limiter to 7200, which would easily reach  130 mph.

TB993tt:

MKSGR:

 

 How credible do you think the above data is? I mean: 997TT with 544hp/PDK doing 0-300 in 29s  I don't believe this to be true. Most likely the test car (not a regular customer car, right?) had more like 600hp  

I think we discussed all these CG numbers before a while back and I share your sceptisism that the tests took place as advertised.

The 544PS package was magazine tested 0-100 in 3.3s and 0-200 in 10.4s, not sure about the 0-300, it wasn't published in that test.

I think it is correct however: consider my 993tt with wide 993GT2 wheel arch extensions. standard 993tt is Cd: 0.34 and CdA 0.656 so mine would have been quite a bit worse - with 577PS it dod 0-300kph in 28.9s

The 997tt was measured by Sport Auto Cd: 0.29 and CdA 0.59 - it is a very slippy car. My experience says the 0-300kph number is right.

We need alex to do an independant RT test for us, I'll try and get him on board for the next UK vmax event

I also think the rating of 798 torque is optimistic for a non-intercooler kit and not what a real customer car sees. Stock Turbo clutch slips around 750 is what I've been told by tuners. If Alex's car has 798 torque, I would think his car's clutch would slip, no?
 

Regards,
Can
997 Turbo + Bilstein Damptronic "Stage 2" ( Review ) + GIAC ECU Tune ( Fast as a torpedo & reversible to stock - Review ) + Cargraphic Exhaust ( Oh heavenly noise! )

TB993tt:

J.Seven:

Here´s EVOMS tuned car results, amazing performance.

000-300 km/h:
997 GT2 (Stock) = 36.2s
997TT.1 (Stock) = 40.7s
997TT.2 (Stock) = 41.9s
997TT.2 (EVOMS Tuned) = 29.90s
 997tt.1 (Cargraphic 544PS/798NM) = 29.2s (manual gearbox - like Alex's)

200-300 km/h:
997 GT2 (Stock) = 22.1s
997TT.1 (Stock) = 28.5s
997TT.2 (Stock) = 31.1s
997TT.2 (EVOMS Tuned)= 19.85s
 997tt.1 (Cargraphic 544PS/798NM) = 18.8s (manual gearbox - like Alex's)

J.Seven

 

They say the weight is 1630kg with full fuel and driver + passenger
Like I said ~550PS is what these guys are getting on the road......

That 997GT2 test should be 25.1s 200-300kph

 

so you are telling me that the cargraphic 544PS  will SMOKE in any condition the all powerfull GT2???
 

almost the same power with almost 200kg more and SMOKE the gt2?

xandi911:

so you are telling me that the cargraphic 544PS  will SMOKE in any condition the all powerfull GT2???
 

almost the same power with almost 200kg more and SMOKE the gt2?

 

+1

No graph.  No slope.  No ambient temps.  Headwind?  Tailwind?  Not enough data.

For a technical forum, we seem awfully wiling to accept this data because it comes from a reputable magazine.

From the graphs the CG/RS 544/798 kit has ~510hp from 5000rpm to the limiter so under full acceleration it will have a lot more torque than for example the 997GT2 which has only ~470hp at 5000rpm.

Edit: And don't forget the aero - the GT2 really slows after 260kph - do I have to post my "pulling teeth trying to get to 200mph graph" again ?

--

2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN

TB993tt:

 

Edit: And don't forget the aero - the GT2 really slows after 260kph - do I have to post my "pulling

 

--

 

2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN

SLOW?!?!?!?!
 

that thing STOCK is able to 347-350km/h STOCK in SPEEDO!!!!!!

SLOW?????????????????????

Yes SLOW accelerating over 260kph - relative to the low drag 997tt - huge difference in CdA

My Gt2 stock took ~1.5km to go from 260-300kph and took so long to get to 200mph that I almost gave up !!

2009 997 GT2 659PS/827NM DIN