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Re: Scary
Very scary. Makes one wonder how safe the S/CL/SL is with risk of software crashes...gotta factor this risk into any safety analysis of Merc...or other software-intensive cars (like M5, etc.). P's relative simplicity is very appealing...although this PASM stuff involves lots of software that can crash... 
Re: Scary
Very scary. Makes one wonder how safe the S/CL/SL is with risk of software crashes...gotta factor this risk into any safety analysis of Merc...or other software-intensive cars (like M5, etc.). P's relative simplicity is very appealing...although this PASM stuff involves lots of software that can crash...
Re: Scary
Quote:
VKSF said:
...although this PASM stuff involves lots of software that can crash
VK,
Porsche's electronic suspension doesn't offer unlimited alternations so even if it would go mad there shouldn't be anything to worry about!
I have driven the electro-hydraulic brake equipped Mercedes models and they have some very strong advantages - though the disadvantages are very strong and not negligible to me.
Unfortunately the car makes you feel that it is in control of the situation and not you - no matter if it makes you fell better or worse.
I could imagine that both the mentioned brake system as well as various other systems have a lot of potential that just doesn't seem to be fully explored yet!
The ESP-system seems to be a good example to that, Porsche's and MB's route to setup this system couldn't be much more differing!
Re: Scary
Quote:
VKSF said:
...although this PASM stuff involves lots of software that can crash
VK,
Porsche's electronic suspension doesn't offer unlimited alternations so even if it would go mad there shouldn't be anything to worry about!
I have driven the electro-hydraulic brake equipped Mercedes models and they have some very strong advantages - though the disadvantages are very strong and not negligible to me.
Unfortunately the car makes you feel that it is in control of the situation and not you - no matter if it makes you fell better or worse.
I could imagine that both the mentioned brake system as well as various other systems have a lot of potential that just doesn't seem to be fully explored yet!
The ESP-system seems to be a good example to that, Porsche's and MB's route to setup this system couldn't be much more differing!
Re: Scary
Quote:
VKSF said:
Very scary. Makes one wonder how safe the S/CL/SL is with risk of software crashes...gotta factor this risk into any safety analysis of Merc...or other software-intensive cars (like M5, etc.). P's relative simplicity is very appealing...although this PASM stuff involves lots of software that can crash...
PASM changes automatically to the sportiest setup if the system malfunctions. Or it doesn't change to a softer setup when in sport mode. There is not much which can go wrong, especially since no height alterations are possible.
There are also several safety features programmed but I can't go into details. Only one thing: Porsche does a lot of the programming themselves, they have a special unit for that. And they are very anal about getting a bug free setup, even at the cost of some "innovative" or spectacular features. If they don't work 100%, they don't get implemented. Have you never wondered that Porsche never had real problems with electronics on their cars? Like for example BMW and Mercedes had?
A little birdie also told me that Mercedes started to update (flash) ALL control units (where it is possible) on the E55 AMG with the newest availabel software versions when customers bring their cars to the dealer. I also heard that this happens automatically without even telling the customer. Sounds good to me but it also indicates that there have been lots of problems in the past.
I know about this action regarding the E55 AMG in Germany only but I suppose similar actions are or will be taken for other models and of course in other countries too.
Re: Scary
Quote:
VKSF said:
Very scary. Makes one wonder how safe the S/CL/SL is with risk of software crashes...gotta factor this risk into any safety analysis of Merc...or other software-intensive cars (like M5, etc.). P's relative simplicity is very appealing...although this PASM stuff involves lots of software that can crash...
PASM changes automatically to the sportiest setup if the system malfunctions. Or it doesn't change to a softer setup when in sport mode. There is not much which can go wrong, especially since no height alterations are possible.
There are also several safety features programmed but I can't go into details. Only one thing: Porsche does a lot of the programming themselves, they have a special unit for that. And they are very anal about getting a bug free setup, even at the cost of some "innovative" or spectacular features. If they don't work 100%, they don't get implemented. Have you never wondered that Porsche never had real problems with electronics on their cars? Like for example BMW and Mercedes had?
A little birdie also told me that Mercedes started to update (flash) ALL control units (where it is possible) on the E55 AMG with the newest availabel software versions when customers bring their cars to the dealer. I also heard that this happens automatically without even telling the customer. Sounds good to me but it also indicates that there have been lots of problems in the past.
I know about this action regarding the E55 AMG in Germany only but I suppose similar actions are or will be taken for other models and of course in other countries too.
Re: Scary
RC, good to hear that P seems to have a more sensible approach to integrating software into their cars than Merc and Bimmer....though is this Cayenne throttle lag issue fundamentally a software problem?
Separately, I was amused by the primitive P software that US dealers seem to grapple with to place orders, esp w/cars w/options like deviating stitching, leather options, etc.....everyone else in the auto world seems to have a more efficient ordering system than does P...but it's hard to argue w/P's end result....some of the highest profit margins and most interesting driver's cars in the auto world
Separately, I was amused by the primitive P software that US dealers seem to grapple with to place orders, esp w/cars w/options like deviating stitching, leather options, etc.....everyone else in the auto world seems to have a more efficient ordering system than does P...but it's hard to argue w/P's end result....some of the highest profit margins and most interesting driver's cars in the auto world
Re: Scary
RC, good to hear that P seems to have a more sensible approach to integrating software into their cars than Merc and Bimmer....though is this Cayenne throttle lag issue fundamentally a software problem?
Separately, I was amused by the primitive P software that US dealers seem to grapple with to place orders, esp w/cars w/options like deviating stitching, leather options, etc.....everyone else in the auto world seems to have a more efficient ordering system than does P...but it's hard to argue w/P's end result....some of the highest profit margins and most interesting driver's cars in the auto world
Separately, I was amused by the primitive P software that US dealers seem to grapple with to place orders, esp w/cars w/options like deviating stitching, leather options, etc.....everyone else in the auto world seems to have a more efficient ordering system than does P...but it's hard to argue w/P's end result....some of the highest profit margins and most interesting driver's cars in the auto world
Re: Scary
Exactly the same thing happened to me 10 days ago on our SL55...engine shut down while I was driving on a higway (100mph or so) no electronic devices and, most important, no brakes at all!!!
Now the car is at the dealer...
After reading that this kind of failure is quite usual I think we will sell immediatly this car!
Now the car is at the dealer...
After reading that this kind of failure is quite usual I think we will sell immediatly this car!
Re: Scary
Exactly the same thing happened to me 10 days ago on our SL55...engine shut down while I was driving on a higway (100mph or so) no electronic devices and, most important, no brakes at all!!!
Now the car is at the dealer...
After reading that this kind of failure is quite usual I think we will sell immediatly this car!
Now the car is at the dealer...
After reading that this kind of failure is quite usual I think we will sell immediatly this car!
Re: Scary
Although to be fair, I suspect every car brand in world has a few cases of alleged systems failures, engine blowups, etc etc. (some more than others 
) Also should consider all the instances that some of these much-maligned complex systems, like anti-lock braking, stability ctrls, sophisticated head/side/front airbags, etc actually save drivers from injury/death. Virtually all complex software has bugs and systems crashes...the real question is the net benefit of these systems vs cars of the "pre-systems era".
) Also should consider all the instances that some of these much-maligned complex systems, like anti-lock braking, stability ctrls, sophisticated head/side/front airbags, etc actually save drivers from injury/death. Virtually all complex software has bugs and systems crashes...the real question is the net benefit of these systems vs cars of the "pre-systems era".
Re: Scary
Although to be fair, I suspect every car brand in world has a few cases of alleged systems failures, engine blowups, etc etc. (some more than others ) Also should consider all the instances that some of these much-maligned complex systems, like anti-lock braking, stability ctrls, sophisticated head/side/front airbags, etc actually save drivers from injury/death. Virtually all complex software has bugs and systems crashes...the real question is the net benefit of these systems vs cars of the "pre-systems era".
) Also should consider all the instances that some of these much-maligned complex systems, like anti-lock braking, stability ctrls, sophisticated head/side/front airbags, etc actually save drivers from injury/death. Virtually all complex software has bugs and systems crashes...the real question is the net benefit of these systems vs cars of the "pre-systems era".
Re: Scary
Quote:
MaxT said:
Exactly the same thing happened to me 10 days ago on our SL55...engine shut down while I was driving on a higway (100mph or so) no electronic devices and, most important, no brakes at all!!!
Now the car is at the dealer...
After reading that this kind of failure is quite usual I think we will sell immediatly this car!
At 100Mph
How did you manage to stop the car?
J.Seven
Re: Scary
Quote:
MaxT said:
Exactly the same thing happened to me 10 days ago on our SL55...engine shut down while I was driving on a higway (100mph or so) no electronic devices and, most important, no brakes at all!!!
Now the car is at the dealer...
After reading that this kind of failure is quite usual I think we will sell immediatly this car!
At 100Mph
How did you manage to stop the car?
J.Seven
Re: Scary
Quote:
VKSF said:
Although to be fair, I suspect every car brand in world has a few cases of alleged systems failures, engine blowups, etc etc. (some more than others
Not much consolation to anybody coming after the minus sign in the equation used to arrive at the net benefit featuring after the "equals" sign.
Sorry, was that post a little too mathematical?
Re: Scary
Quote:
VKSF said:
Although to be fair, I suspect every car brand in world has a few cases of alleged systems failures, engine blowups, etc etc. (some more than others
Not much consolation to anybody coming after the minus sign in the equation used to arrive at the net benefit featuring after the "equals" sign.
Sorry, was that post a little too mathematical?
Re: Scary
Fair point, fritz. However, if one excessively focuses on the stories of systems failures associated w/every car brand, it'll be fairly difficult to identify any brand/model that's truly "bulletproof" in safety/reliability....ultimately have to place own bets largely based on common sense evaluation of car's engineering and essentially anecdotal datapoints....
Re: Scary
Fair point, fritz. However, if one excessively focuses on the stories of systems failures associated w/every car brand, it'll be fairly difficult to identify any brand/model that's truly "bulletproof" in safety/reliability....ultimately have to place own bets largely based on common sense evaluation of car's engineering and essentially anecdotal datapoints....
Re: Scary
VK,
it's not about being bullet proof but about a certain amount of safety. Unfortunately MB sells a good amount of cars because of this features - I wouldn't even say that the electro-hydr. brakesystem is a bad feature but they cut down development time significantly in recent past. Other problems might not result in such a dramatic consequence and we should give them credit for the lack of mechanical problems...
How are you supposed NOT to stumble when you make the 2nd step before the 1st?
it's not about being bullet proof but about a certain amount of safety. Unfortunately MB sells a good amount of cars because of this features - I wouldn't even say that the electro-hydr. brakesystem is a bad feature but they cut down development time significantly in recent past. Other problems might not result in such a dramatic consequence and we should give them credit for the lack of mechanical problems...
How are you supposed NOT to stumble when you make the 2nd step before the 1st?
Re: Scary
VK,
it's not about being bullet proof but about a certain amount of safety. Unfortunately MB sells a good amount of cars because of this features - I wouldn't even say that the electro-hydr. brakesystem is a bad feature but they cut down development time significantly in recent past. Other problems might not result in such a dramatic consequence and we should give them credit for the lack of mechanical problems...
How are you supposed NOT to stumble when you make the 2nd step before the 1st?
it's not about being bullet proof but about a certain amount of safety. Unfortunately MB sells a good amount of cars because of this features - I wouldn't even say that the electro-hydr. brakesystem is a bad feature but they cut down development time significantly in recent past. Other problems might not result in such a dramatic consequence and we should give them credit for the lack of mechanical problems...
How are you supposed NOT to stumble when you make the 2nd step before the 1st?
Re: Scary
There is NO excuse for vital components failing. WIth a once untarnished reputation for bullet proof reliability and sound engineering, their cars are NOTHING like that today. They may have all the features in the world but stupid, annoying, little electrical faults have no place in such an expensive car. My A-class once broke down with a complete auto transmission failure coming off on the sliproad from the motorway/highway. I was then left on the road side for three hours! Total repair cost around 3500GBP. But luckily it was under warranty.
Here in the UK Merc offers all its new cars with "Mobilolife" a pan European 30 eyar breakdown and recovery service, it saved my buttt that time but every time since the repair I still have a gutless feeling wondering whether or not 1st gear will fail on me
Here in the UK Merc offers all its new cars with "Mobilolife" a pan European 30 eyar breakdown and recovery service, it saved my buttt that time but every time since the repair I still have a gutless feeling wondering whether or not 1st gear will fail on me
Re: Scary
There is NO excuse for vital components failing. WIth a once untarnished reputation for bullet proof reliability and sound engineering, their cars are NOTHING like that today. They may have all the features in the world but stupid, annoying, little electrical faults have no place in such an expensive car. My A-class once broke down with a complete auto transmission failure coming off on the sliproad from the motorway/highway. I was then left on the road side for three hours! Total repair cost around 3500GBP. But luckily it was under warranty.
Here in the UK Merc offers all its new cars with "Mobilolife" a pan European 30 eyar breakdown and recovery service, it saved my buttt that time but every time since the repair I still have a gutless feeling wondering whether or not 1st gear will fail on me
Here in the UK Merc offers all its new cars with "Mobilolife" a pan European 30 eyar breakdown and recovery service, it saved my buttt that time but every time since the repair I still have a gutless feeling wondering whether or not 1st gear will fail on me
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