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    Dec 18, 2005 10:40:06 PM

    RCA
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    Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    444 Users voted for 480 or more horsepower.
    97% of the votes were in favor of 480 horsepower or more.
    189 Users even voted for 500 HP, making it a whopping 41% of the total number of voters.

    And now the most interesting part:
    126 Users even voted for more than 500 HP, a total of 27%.

    Conclusion: if Porsche really offers less than 500 HP in the new 997 Turbo, a lot of people will be disappointed.
    And if they dare to offer less than 480 HP, the 997 Turbo will be a marketing desaster, not to speak about the sales figures.
    I highly doubt that people would buy a 997 Turbo with less than 480 HP. Unless Porsche succeeded in making the new 997 Turbo at least 100 kg lighter than the "old" one.

    And finally, remember: the poll wasn't about how much power people want to see on the new Turbo, the poll was about how much power they expect to see on the new Turbo. A huge difference in my opinion.

    It is up to Porsche now, they shouldn't say they haven't been "warned".

    Dec 19, 2005 4:44:46 AM

    Hurst
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    Not to burst your bubble, but from a statistical standpoint, this isn't very conclusive.

    If you put a set of choices (A,B,C,D,E) and put the question, "which one would you perfer," the most alluring choice will almost undoubtedly be picked.

    I think there should be some concessions for the 480+ figure. For example:

    If Porsche gears the 997TT to 480+ hp, would you pay X amount more than if it were to have 460?

    Porsche, as a car maker, has to factor in competition, brand appeal, loyalty, marketing, price, usability in their design, besides sheer performance.

    Don't get me wrong, I would love to see it with 490hp and I believe (if I remember correctly) that I voted for 480, but I won't be shocked if it is 460.

    Although you've done a marvelous job of championing a push for more power, RC, I believe that in the end, the only thing that would change Porsche's mind would be a loss in sales. To do this, boycotting the 997TT might in effect make changes for the 998TT.

    It really comes down to the bottom line

    Dec 19, 2005 5:11:35 AM

    chuck
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    Reply to: Hurst

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    Myself, if it's less than 500 will look else where.
    I have no brand loyalty for a company that could care less about us and just work the numbers for "Gross" profit because they know you guys will pay 20K for 20 more horse power.

    Dec 19, 2005 6:45:36 AM

    jonquiljo
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    Reply to: chuck

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    It will be a barometer of the "balls" of Porsche. If they come out less than 500 hp, they are testing the opposition. It will tell me that their arrogance is at an all time high.

    Dec 19, 2005 7:39:13 AM

    OCEAN
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    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    Quote:
    If they come out less than 500 hp, they are testing the opposition


    The percentage of Porsche buyers that is obsessed about things like horsepower is I think very small . When the 996TT came out the turbo kind of went mainstream and it seemed like todays turbo buyer is someone who just wants the top of the line Porsche and will probably not ever come close to the kind of driving that the car is really capable of . I hate to say it but here in the US the turbo seems to be more of a kind of fashion statement , when I look at the average guy driving a 996TT they really do not know to much about the car and all of the performance details .

    Dec 19, 2005 8:00:18 AM

    Hurst
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    Reply to: OCEAN

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    Quote:
    If they come out less than 500 hp, they are testing the opposition


    The percentage of Porsche buyers that is obsessed about things like horsepower is I think very small . When the 996TT came out the turbo kind of went mainstream and it seemed like todays turbo buyer is someone who just wants the top of the line Porsche and will probably not ever come close to the kind of driving that the car is really capable of . I hate to say it but here in the US the turbo seems to be more of a kind of fashion statement , when I look at the average guy driving a 996TT they really do not know to much about the car and all of the performance details .



    I agree with this sentiment. From a business standpoint, Porsche cannot cling onto the 911 Turbo as its performance flagship; they deversified moreso with the emphasis on the GT3, GT2 and Carerra GT.

    It simply doesn't make sense, business wise, to really press too hard performance wise on the TT... Sad but true

    Dec 19, 2005 10:09:04 AM

    ALDOM
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    Reply to: Hurst

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    I agree with Hurst and Ocean,

    I love performance and I love Porsche.

    I had only once a Porsche turbo, it was a 996 tt. At the moment I have been deciding about this car I didn't had in my mind any other brand. It was only a question between different Porsche models. So having 20 or 40 hp more was not so important. I have tested the car and the performance was more then enough for me. Having more hp would be nice but I wouldn't pay extra money for that.

    Now I have bought a 997 and have chosen X51 only to have a car between 997 S and my old 996 tt. I didn't want to fall to much back.

    AM

    Dec 19, 2005 10:38:23 AM

    Nick_Athens Offline
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    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    Rc make a poll on how many people are going to buy the 997TT without DSG as they wont have the option to order it, if they know that on 2007 they will be able to order it with DSG gearbox....

    And send the results to Porsche...

    Dec 19, 2005 10:52:48 AM

    mish
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    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    RC, I don't understand something - why WOULDN'T Porsche put out the most HP that they could in their Turbo / Turbo s?

    Is it because the Turbo would then drag down the sales of their GT lineups? If that's the case, why don't they just drop the GT's and have the Turbo as the daddy?

    The only other reason I could think of is perhaps they fear that Turbo could / would outperform the infinitely more pricey CGT?

    I don't get it - please explain!

    Dec 19, 2005 11:09:44 AM

    OCEAN
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    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    Quote:
    why WOULDN'T Porsche put out the most HP that they could in their Turbo / Turbo s?



    It is more profitable to stretch it out over a few different models over a few years to keep people always buying the latest best thing . You can bet that they have the top of the line most HP ready but we will not see it on this first model , that would not be the most profitable move for them . They are going to spread it out over S models and power packages . I hate the way the real deal top of the line model does not come until the end of a model run . I hate that feeling of buying Porsche products and a year later they come out with somthing that make you wish you had the new model .

    Dec 19, 2005 11:15:48 AM

    FutchM
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    RC,
    I understand your enthousiasm and your anxiety my friend, but I really doubt that Porsche cares much about that poll.
    You have to remember this is the internet and you've also experienced it the hard way.
    My assumtion is of the 480 users who have voted, a good 3/4 have never driven a Porsche, and a majority are also young kids whose parents own or not a Porsche and there's nothing wrong with that, it's the internet, and as a result, it makes the poll hardly conclusive.
    Also, on the users that are actually potential buyers, we are Rennteamers, which means we know how to drive, we know how to put the power down on the road (you'd hope so...) etc etc etc...
    Most future Turbo buyers (or Porsche buyers for that matter), as Ocean wrote, only want their Porsche to say Turbo on the boot, don't care about power and will probably order their car with a Tiptronic transmission.
    When the 996 Turbo came out, it had a wooping 30 hp LESS than the lastest of the previous generation (The 993 Turbo S)!
    And yet went on to become the huge success we all know.
    Then the competition showed up, they were all more powerful (575, SL55, Vanquish, etc.) and yet, Turbo sales were still strong.
    I'm not speculating on the 997 Turbo, the more power the better (personally) but I am also aware that my type of buyer (the real amateur, the one that knows what he's driving) represents a pretty huge minority.
    One thing I don't know is the Turbo's power figure. One thing I DO know is that even with 460 hp, it'll still be a huge success, trust me on that.
    You and a few hundred Rennteamers might cancel their orders but that won't stop the thousands of others who only want to say they drive a Porsche 911 Turbo.
    You aske them what it VGT and they'll ask you if it's an abreviation for vegetable fuel, I promise you, it'll be impressive if they know the power of their car!
    And finally, another thing I do know for sure is that Porsche model line up is planned on a 10 year basis by the board of directors, so whatever the Turbo power figure is, is was decided probably about two or three years ago, I doubt one has any influence on it's power figure now.

    Dec 19, 2005 11:51:21 AM

    OCEAN
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    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    Quote:
    probably order their car with a Tiptronic transmission.


    I do see this on so so many 996TT , now that you bring it up Fanch , this was something you never saw with TT's in the years before . A 996TT with Tiptronic transmission and wood interior with some guys wife driving up to Neiman Marcus and handing the keys to the valet as she and the kids get out ..........

    Dec 19, 2005 11:53:50 AM

    zzbobaA
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    Reply to: FutchM

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    RC,
    I understand your enthousiasm and your anxiety my friend, but I really doubt that Porsche cares much about that poll.
    You have to remember this is the internet and you've also experienced it the hard way.
    My assumtion is of the 480 users who have voted, a good 3/4 have never driven a Porsche, and a majority are also young kids whose parents own or not a Porsche and there's nothing wrong with that, it's the internet, and as a result, it makes the poll hardly conclusive.
    Also, on the users that are actually potential buyers, we are Rennteamers, which means we know how to drive, we know how to put the power down on the road (you'd hope so...) etc etc etc...
    Most future Turbo buyers (or Porsche buyers for that matter), as Ocean wrote, only want their Porsche to say Turbo on the boot, don't care about power and will probably order their car with a Tiptronic transmission.
    When the 996 Turbo came out, it had a wooping 30 hp LESS than the lastest of the previous generation (The 993 Turbo S)!
    And yet went on to become the huge success we all know.
    Then the competition showed up, they were all more powerful (575, SL55, Vanquish, etc.) and yet, Turbo sales were still strong.
    I'm not speculating on the 997 Turbo, the more power the better (personally) but I am also aware that my type of buyer (the real amateur, the one that knows what he's driving) represents a pretty huge minority.
    One thing I don't know is the Turbo's power figure. One thing I DO know is that even with 460 hp, it'll still be a huge success, trust me on that.
    You and a few hundred Rennteamers might cancel their orders but that won't stop the thousands of others who only want to say they drive a Porsche 911 Turbo.
    You aske them what it VGT and they'll ask you if it's an abreviation for vegetable fuel, I promise you, it'll be impressive if they know the power of their car!




    i completely agree francois

    and i'm pretty sure that the 997TT's performance will be great and on a 996 GT2 level -- i'd rather would worry about it's look

    Dec 19, 2005 12:04:25 PM

    FutchM
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    Reply to: zzbobaA

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    i completely agree francois

    and i'm pretty sure that the 997TT's performance will be great and on a 996 GT2 level -- i'd rather would worry about it's look



    Zz,
    With Porsche, form follows function! Ahhh, excuses excuses!
    Seriously, it won't have the grace of the Ferrari V8 but it's not supposed to either, I like it's brutish looks.

    RC,
    Been away for a while and I just read some pretty hilarious posts on the Cayman forum, some saying that the Cayman is everything but a Boxster Coupe etc etc etc.
    Now, realise that it's the same guys who voted on the 997 forum, get my point?

    Dec 19, 2005 1:02:42 PM

    mish
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    Reply to: OCEAN

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    Quote:
    why WOULDN'T Porsche put out the most HP that they could in their Turbo / Turbo s?



    It is more profitable to stretch it out over a few different models over a few years to keep people always buying the latest best thing . You can bet that they have the top of the line most HP ready but we will not see it on this first model , that would not be the most profitable move for them . They are going to spread it out over S models and power packages . I hate the way the real deal top of the line model does not come until the end of a model run . I hate that feeling of buying Porsche products and a year later they come out with somthing that make you wish you had the new model .




    Ocean, isn't that what they have already done?

    997c2....c2s....c4.....c4s....Turbo...and finally Turbo S. Is it really that much more profitable to make MORE (GT2, GT3, X51 etc) than 6 Variants of what is essentially (!!) the Same Wolf?

    It's a silly little marketing gimmick imo. People are forever waiting to take delivery of their new vehicle and just as they do, P up the ante - and make you feel like you've just been conned by adding a new engine upgrade or facelift etc.

    As you pointed out, it's actually quite sad that you have to wait well into the cycle life before you finally see the 'real deal.' I suspect most future P Turbo S Cab owners will be waiting until almost MY 2008/09 before they see their cars. And then what.....My 2010 brings us the 998!?

    Dec 19, 2005 1:25:30 PM

    RCA
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    Reply to: Hurst

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    Quote:
    Hurst said:
    I agree with this sentiment. From a business standpoint, Porsche cannot cling onto the 911 Turbo as its performance flagship; they deversified moreso with the emphasis on the GT3, GT2 and Carerra GT.



    I'm afraid I cannot agree. The 911 Turbo is still Porsche's sportscar flagship, it is just a matter of how you view things. The GT3 is actually a track car, same applies to the GT2. The Carrera GT is a special, limited edition model, you can't count it in.

    Why do you think does the 911 Turbo have the internal model designation "TOP"?
    Also don't forget what engines the GT3 and especially the GT2 are using. I'm just curious to see if there will be direct fuel injection or not.

    Yes, from a strategic marketing point of view, a lower power and raising power little by little over the upcoming years may make sense. But unfortunately the competition has moved on and Porsche can't afford to stay behind a car like the Z06 and especially the F430. Since the Ferrari is considered to be a direct competitor, Porsche cannot afford to stay completely behind. No matter if the 997 Turbo would be a tick faster on the track, even with less HP.

    So I still think that we're dealing with 480-490 HP but if its going to be more, I'll be even more happy.

    Dec 19, 2005 1:35:17 PM

    OCEAN
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    Reply to: mish

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    Quote:
    People are forever waiting to take delivery of their new vehicle and just as they do, P up the ante - and make you feel like you've just been conned by adding a new engine upgrade or facelift etc.

    As you pointed out, it's actually quite sad that you have to wait well into the cycle life before you finally see the 'real deal.' I suspect most future P Turbo S Cab owners will be waiting until almost MY 2008 before they see their cars. ]



    You got it ... this is the first time I am not playing the game , in years before it has been exhausting . With the 996 it drug out for 4 years ... At lest this time the wide-body is not that much different , with my 993's and 996's halfway through the run they came out with wide-body cars that had us selling our brand new cars for the wide ones that looked so so much better . I am sure the 997 will see a facelift in 07 with the turn indicators . I can not remember ever buying a Porsche that within a year or so there was a new model I would much prefer , marketing wise their little system is brilliant but for the buyer who wants the top of the line the quest seems endless .

    This is what has looked attractive in the Ferrari world , seeing guys buy a 360 spider at the top of the run and drive it for 5 years never being tempted with better models . Now the guys who are buying 430 spiders will probably have the same 4 or 5 years of enjoying the car without feeling the need to get a new version of the 430 every year .

    Many of us who are waiting on Turbos would buy the 997TTS w/ power kit if it were available at the same time the regular TT comes out . It is almost like they wait till the very end of a model to really realize the good stuff to get people who already have that model to buy another one , at least that is how I how felt . Release that 997TTS now do not make us wait until the end of the run . Never going to happen the best 997TT model will be at the end of the run then a year later or less you will be looking at a new body style and the process starts again .

    Wait till they do the little facelift to the 07 997's(those led's on the TT are going to work their way into all the 997's in 07 ) there will be some pissed off people , it immediately hurts the value of the model before it .

    Quote:
    Yes, from a strategic marketing point of view, a lower power and raising power little by little over the upcoming years may make sense. But unfortunately the competition has moved on and Porsche can't afford to stay behind a car like the Z06 and especially the F430. Since the Ferrari is considered to be a direct competitor, Porsche cannot afford to stay completely behind. No matter if the 997 Turbo would be a tick faster on the track, even with less HP



    Screw the strategic marketing crap and release the most HP they can right now or at least make it an option you can have at the same time of the release of the TT . Like you said with the Z06 to the 430 they need to make a statement right now so do not let a little profit loss and strategic marketing get in the way of your top of the line product keep that way of thinking on the SUV or the new Cayman and that stuff . It would really be nice to know that when you chose the top of the line product you were leaving the strategic marketing bullshit behind and getting the state of the art technology that they have right now .

    The whole power-kit option is such customer slap in the face , can you imagine what that must cost them to make compared to what they sell it for , it should automatically be on the 997S and the new TT and not artificially put aside and sold separately to make a little more money even if it raises the cost of the car a little . But to come out with it later and charge 10 or 20K seems like a bit of a cheap shot and defiantly out of place for the TT . The whole reason people are buying the turbo is to get the most powerful car Porsche can build . Why have an option like that on that model , but you can bet it will be an option on the TT . But not when it comes out but in between the 997TT and the 997TTS and a few other variations you will be dreaming about after you buy the basic 997TT .

    Dec 19, 2005 2:05:11 PM

    RCA
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    Reply to: FutchM

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    RC,
    I understand your enthousiasm and your anxiety my friend, but I really doubt that Porsche cares much about that poll.
    You have to remember this is the internet and you've also experienced it the hard way.
    My assumtion is of the 480 users who have voted, a good 3/4 have never driven a Porsche, and a majority are also young kids whose parents own or not a Porsche and there's nothing wrong with that, it's the internet, and as a result, it makes the poll hardly conclusive.
    Also, on the users that are actually potential buyers, we are Rennteamers, which means we know how to drive, we know how to put the power down on the road (you'd hope so...) etc etc etc...
    Most future Turbo buyers (or Porsche buyers for that matter), as Ocean wrote, only want their Porsche to say Turbo on the boot, don't care about power and will probably order their car with a Tiptronic transmission.
    When the 996 Turbo came out, it had a wooping 30 hp LESS than the lastest of the previous generation (The 993 Turbo S)!
    And yet went on to become the huge success we all know.
    Then the competition showed up, they were all more powerful (575, SL55, Vanquish, etc.) and yet, Turbo sales were still strong.
    I'm not speculating on the 997 Turbo, the more power the better (personally) but I am also aware that my type of buyer (the real amateur, the one that knows what he's driving) represents a pretty huge minority.
    One thing I don't know is the Turbo's power figure. One thing I DO know is that even with 460 hp, it'll still be a huge success, trust me on that.
    You and a few hundred Rennteamers might cancel their orders but that won't stop the thousands of others who only want to say they drive a Porsche 911 Turbo.
    You aske them what it VGT and they'll ask you if it's an abreviation for vegetable fuel, I promise you, it'll be impressive if they know the power of their car!
    And finally, another thing I do know for sure is that Porsche model line up is planned on a 10 year basis by the board of directors, so whatever the Turbo power figure is, is was decided probably about two or three years ago, I doubt one has any influence on it's power figure now.



    Porsche may not care about the poll but they care about the internet. And this is a good thing. What happened to me with ONE person was the result of THIS SINGLE person telling his upper bosses a lot of crap, making us look like a bunch of children driving expensive toys. I know that a lot of people at Porsche take us pretty serious, unfortunately not all of them are decision makers.

    Also don't forget that engineers have a pride. They would never accept that a new technology would be used without having a major impact on the car performance itself. Whoever introduced this technology hadn't only environmental stuff and future emissions laws in his head. He was thinking performance too. Since I doubt that the new 997 Turbo will be lighter than the old one (I actually heard of around 40-60 kg OVER the 996 Turbo weight), 460 HP won't be enough to beat the competition. And like it or not: Porsche IS aware of the competition and they would never accept to deliver a car with less performance.
    Ferrari and even GM gave Porsche a hard time. I bet that Porsche actually planned to introduce 450-460 HP on the new 997 Turbo. But they can't do it anymore, it would be very dumb. I won't even mention the BMW M5 and M6 or the upcoming AMG models.

    Porsche is actually lucky. Imagine Ferrari would have put the F430 on the market SHORTLY AFTER a 997 Turbo with let's say 450 HP would have been introduced. It would have been a desaster for Porsche.
    If Porsche is very clever, they could actually do something else: they could introduce a base 460 HP 997 Turbo and at the same time from the beginning a powerkit which adds 40 more horses, pushing the power up to 500 HP. It would be some sort of "indirect" price raise, a very clever strategy.

    Actually, I would have done the same they did with the 911 Carrera S and Carrera. But since they didn't, I'd still say that 480-490 HP are quite accurate, this is actually also the power figure most german car magazines mentioned, with the exception of Auto Zeitung and another one which mentioned 500 HP. Let's pray...

    Dec 19, 2005 2:26:33 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: mish

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    Quote:
    mish said:
    RC, I don't understand something - why WOULDN'T Porsche put out the most HP that they could in their Turbo / Turbo s?

    Is it because the Turbo would then drag down the sales of their GT lineups? If that's the case, why don't they just drop the GT's and have the Turbo as the daddy?


    Mish - if the TT had 700hp and the GT3 had only 400hp, I would stilll buy the GT3. The GT3 satisfies a different type of use. It is a more focused drivers car with adjustable suspension, RWD, LSD, non-sunroof, high revving linear power, much lighter, etc. It is more sporting, even if its straight-line speed cannot keep up with the Turbo. It is a more lively, responsive drive (less the rocketship thrust of the Turbo)...

    Dec 19, 2005 2:26:51 PM

    FutchM
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    I agree man,
    Porsche will not release a car with performance below the competition. That is 100% sure.
    But it's not directly related with power.
    Example: in the same price range, the 996 Turbo trumps the SL55 with 80 hp less.
    My point is, if the Turbo's power is as low as 460 hp, it'll still be faster than the competition.
    Now since you wrote that the new model will be up to 60 kgs heavier, which actually puts it at almost 1700 kgs!
    then I agree 100% with you, I don't see how they can be faster than the competition without substantially more power, despite Direct fuel injection and VGT.
    I'm not crossing out a similar strategy than the Carrera with base model and S model.

    Don't know about power but I'm pretty sure the Turbo will post a 0 to 100 kmh time of 4 secs flat maximum. I know it's an unsignificant figure, but it's the one that sells!

    Dec 19, 2005 2:29:12 PM

    Men007
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    I currently drive a Porsche (see here) that I deeply love. I made some changes to the stereo, added a TV screen (for entertainment while in a traffic jam), had it chipped, changed the wheels, headers and catalytic converters. I am truly happy with the results.

    In the meantime, I am also on 'the list' for the new Turbo (#2 in the Mid-West). I am not quite sure if I am sold on the looks of the front. It might be OK in black. For me, the specs of the 997tt need to be nothing short of spectacular to entice me to abandon my current ride. I am the first to admit that it is a completely arbitrary number but I will cancel my order if the HP is less than 500. The Turbo HAS TO BE the ultimate sports car, that is the whole point.

    BTW The question whether or not to get the 997tt is haunting me day and night, my life could be a lot worse...

    Dec 19, 2005 3:33:28 PM

    OCEAN
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    OCEAN
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    Posts: 1334, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 28, 2004
    Reply to: FutchM

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    Quote:
    hey could introduce a base 460 HP 997 Turbo and at the same time from the beginning a powerkit which adds 40 more horses, pushing the power up to 500 HP. It would be some sort of "indirect" price raise, a very clever strategy

    RC that sounds like a nice compromise

    Dec 19, 2005 9:08:50 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59602, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: Men007

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    Quote:
    Men007 said:
    I currently drive a Porsche (see here) that I deeply love. I made some changes to the stereo, added a TV screen (for entertainment while in a traffic jam), had it chipped, changed the wheels, headers and catalytic converters. I am truly happy with the results.

    In the meantime, I am also on 'the list' for the new Turbo (#2 in the Mid-West). I am not quite sure if I am sold on the looks of the front. It might be OK in black. For me, the specs of the 997tt need to be nothing short of spectacular to entice me to abandon my current ride. I am the first to admit that it is a completely arbitrary number but I will cancel my order if the HP is less than 500. The Turbo HAS TO BE the ultimate sports car, that is the whole point.

    BTW The question whether or not to get the 997tt is haunting me day and night, my life could be a lot worse...



    I fully agree. And I'm almost positive that you get what you're looking for. The 997 Turbo introduces a completely new technology, a world premiere. Some people may not realize how important the VTG technology is but in my eyes, it is a breakthrough, like it has been a few years ago for Diesel engines. If Porsche would have wanted just a little power upgrade, they could have gone for the "old" 996 Turbo engine with some improvements only, based mainly on the GT2 variant. This little baby already easily spits out 483 HP on the paper (and over 500 in reality). So why has Porsche chosen the more difficult path? And would they go this path just to make themselves ridiculous in front of the competition? I doubt it.

    To be honest: I think the early press release regarding the VTG technology was just the beginning of something spectacular. I don't think that we heard half of the story. I would speculate that there will be direct fuel injection too, maybe a completely new OBD system, making the 997 Turbo one of the fastest and environmental friendliest sportscars in the world. And there is extra power: what a better occasion to hit 500 HP flat and take the 997 Turbo, the "TOP 2" model to new heights, starting a new aera for Porsche. Also think about the GT3 and GT3 RS, also about possible facelift power upgrades over the next two to three years.

    I would love to see these power figures from Porsche:

    997 Carrera/4 - 325 HP, after facelift 345 HP.
    997 Carrera S/4S - 355 HP, after facelift 380 HP.
    997 Carrera S/4S Powerkit - 381 HP, after facelift 405 HP.
    997 GT3 - 415 HP, MkII variant 435 HP
    997 GT3 RS - 440 HP
    997 Turbo - 500 HP
    997 Turbo S - 530 HP
    997 GT2 - 540 HP (and 100 kg lighter than 997 Turbo)
    997 GT1 - 620 HP

    Maybe we're lucky, who knows...

    And here's the "worst" part: I think that the new 997 Turbo will be much more expensive than anticipated. It was 129000 Euro incl. 16% VAT in Germany, I'd say that with much more power and all the new technology, it may hit 140000 Euro...for the base model. Add the PCCB and a few goodies and you easily go up to 160000 Euro and more. Ouch.

    Dec 19, 2005 9:12:30 PM

    Grant
    Rennteam VIP
    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
    Posts: 12588, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 21, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    RC - I don't think people will pay big money for a small 6% power increase from the TT to TTS, unless there were other (not power related) improvements...

    Dec 19, 2005 9:14:17 PM

    CFM
    Rennteam Moderator
    CF
    Loc: Florida , United States
    Posts: 1113, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 30, 2003
    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    The following reference numbers has been calculated based on previous increases in output for each model and its successive evolution since the 996 was introduced.


    1. 997 GT3 403 - 405 HP

    1. 997 Turbo 475 HP X? Kit 510 HP

    2. 997 GT3 419 - 420 HP

    2. 997 Turbo 495 HP X? Kit 530 HP

    Note. The end result is different if you include the 997S/997S X51 in the equation, thereby the two variations of each model.

    Considering traditional Porsche marketing I give variation 1. a 90% probability.

    997 GT3 RS introduction 4th quarter 2006

    Dec 19, 2005 9:18:09 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59602, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    RC - I don't think people will pay big money for a small 6% power increase from the TT to TTS, unless there were other (not power related) improvements...



    With the 140000 Euro, I meant the 997 Turbo, not the Turbo S. I'm not sure I'm getting your point???

    Dec 19, 2005 9:20:02 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59602, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: CFM

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    Quote:
    CF said:
    The following reference numbers has been calculated based on previous increases in output for each model and its successive evolution since the 996 was introduced.


    1. 997 GT3 403 - 405 HP

    1. 997 Turbo 475 HP X? Kit 510 HP

    2. 997 GT3 419 - 420 HP

    2. 997 Turbo 495 HP X? Kit 530 HP

    Note. The end result is different if you include the 997S/997S X51 in the equation, thereby the two variations of each model.

    Considering traditional Porsche marketing I give variation 1. a 90% probability.

    997 GT3 RS introduction 4th quarter 2006



    There is only one problem: the 997 GT3 is rumored to get 415 HP. What now?
    So using your equation, the 997 Turbo should get something close to 500 HP or even slightly more. I think 508 HP sound just right, don't you agree?

    Dec 19, 2005 9:23:03 PM

    CFM
    Rennteam Moderator
    CF
    Loc: Florida , United States
    Posts: 1113, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 30, 2003
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    If I had to bet on it I would say GT3 - 405 HP and Turbo - 475 HP

    Dec 19, 2005 9:29:54 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59602, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: CFM

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    Quote:
    CF said:
    If I had to bet on it I would say GT3 - 405 HP and Turbo - 475 HP



    How about GT3 - 415 HP and Turbo - 483 HP?

    Dec 19, 2005 9:36:09 PM

    J.Seven
    Rennteam Master
    J.Seven
    Loc: Estoril , Portugal
    Posts: 3201, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 16, 2002
    Reply to: Hurst

    Re: Short Analysis of the 997 Turbo - Engine Power POLL

    Has long it says 911 Turbo on the back lid, it will sell lik hot cakes, even if it has only 430Hp. The name sells fo it self and this is the said part

    No matter what hp number Porsche drops on the 997Turbo (430Hp , 450Hp or 480hp) it will be the best seller Turbo ever , believe me, they really don't care about hp wars.

    J.Seven
     
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