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Rossi said:
Time to start a F-bashing thread.
7.55 min
...according to Sport Auto. Time was taken with optional Corsa tyres (1450 Euro) and CCM-brakes (14k).
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vinnie said:
According to track-challenge.com the Porsche 997 911S runs around the ring in 8.05 min which is 10 seconds slower than 430.
Dec 15, 2005 6:47:03 PM
Dec 15, 2005 7:04:15 PM
Dec 15, 2005 7:18:54 PM
Quote:
xander71 said:
I think that the matter of the ring times is not just as simple as it seems.
I do the porsche formula club in italy, and 3-4 times a year i'm at the ring with my 993.
in a circuit like the ring i really think that the set up of the car is more important than have horsepower.
my 993 is at the moment really low ( -30mm) and have a hard set up , in circuits like mugello in italy with this set up i gained around 1. - 1.5 sec a lap compared to the one i had before.my ring times is with the old set up around 8.40 with this last one i couldn't get faster than 8.55. that's meens 15 sec and the conditions where almost the same and i also newed the ring better( FAR AWAY TO DRIVE WELL IN THERE....).
we have to think that porsche is doing all the set up at the ring and they have the best ring pilot "walter rohrl"( we met him at the ring this year and he is really a super nice person ) to prepare the cars...
Just to say that maybe the 430 is much better in a normal track where it can use it's aerodinamic venturi effect, than at the ring where there are a lot different grounds..bumps..jumps..and so on.and maybe on normal tracks it is as fast as the porsches or even faster??????
this is the impressions that i have driving in "normal" circuits and then driving in the ring.
so another friend of mine which have a997s had my same impressions with a very track oriented set up.
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Lazy Cat said:Quote:
xander71 said:
I think that the matter of the ring times is not just as simple as it seems.
I do the porsche formula club in italy, and 3-4 times a year i'm at the ring with my 993.
in a circuit like the ring i really think that the set up of the car is more important than have horsepower.
my 993 is at the moment really low ( -30mm) and have a hard set up , in circuits like mugello in italy with this set up i gained around 1. - 1.5 sec a lap compared to the one i had before.my ring times is with the old set up around 8.40 with this last one i couldn't get faster than 8.55. that's meens 15 sec and the conditions where almost the same and i also newed the ring better( FAR AWAY TO DRIVE WELL IN THERE....).
we have to think that porsche is doing all the set up at the ring and they have the best ring pilot "walter rohrl"( we met him at the ring this year and he is really a super nice person ) to prepare the cars...
Just to say that maybe the 430 is much better in a normal track where it can use it's aerodinamic venturi effect, than at the ring where there are a lot different grounds..bumps..jumps..and so on.and maybe on normal tracks it is as fast as the porsches or even faster??????
this is the impressions that i have driving in "normal" circuits and then driving in the ring.
so another friend of mine which have a997s had my same impressions with a very track oriented set up.
i 100% agree
Quote:
Fanch said:
Rossi, can you tell me more about the P Zero Corsa tyres please? They are really expensive but is grip that much better? Are they dangerous on the wet? Thanks.
Dec 15, 2005 9:16:07 PM
Dec 15, 2005 9:20:32 PM
Dec 15, 2005 9:41:34 PM
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
I find it really dissapointing, I would have guessed a 7:50 (Gallardo times). And with Corsa R-compound tires? I find it surprising.
The 997S with only 355HP did 8:05, but if it had Corsas you can scrtah may 5 seconds off... the F360 Changenge Stradale did 7:47 with Corsas, thats 8 seconds faster!...I remember some old threads about some people thinking the F430 would be similar to the F360CS, and I would argue against that (F360CS is lighter and sportier setup) but I didn't expect 8 seconds difference and with the same Corsas on top of it.
My god, the 997TT is going to cremate it!
So with the standard Runflats that would put it in what? 8:05?
I too believe the F430 would do better in a smooth track, but the Ring times serve a diffrenet purspose, they are the best available window to the car's performance in the real world streets in which we drive these cars. That said, the F430 may not be the best handling and fastest of the group on the streets, but they are not about that completely, they have other virtues. But I expect the Challenge Stradale version to due much better on the track...
Dec 15, 2005 10:01:36 PM
Quote:
Rossi said:
I absolutely agree with you Carlos.
I expected something like a 7.55 min, but with the standard Pirelli Rosso tyres, not with the Corsa. That would put the F430 in one league with the Gallardo. We must not forget, that the Gallardo achieved its 7.52 min with Rosso tyres and that a Challenge Stradale, with Corsa but with 65 horses less (and no E-Diff and no CCM and slower F1) was only one second slower (7.56 min). In the last Supertest the BMW M6 gained something like ten seconds by using Corsa instead of normal tyres, so if I transfer that on the F430, its Ringtime would be only a little bit better than that of the F360 Modena (8.09 min), which is more than disappointing.
I can't help myself, but something is terribly wrong here.
Dec 15, 2005 10:01:40 PM
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svtrader1 said:
Sport Auto is a joke. Horse von Saurma is a Porsche puppet. With him behind the wheels of 997tt it would clock a 'Ring time of 7:45 sec. And the Z06 would see 7:57sec. Ring time is nonsense and meaning less.
Dec 15, 2005 10:48:35 PM
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
svtrader1 said:
Sport Auto is a joke. Horse von Saurma is a Porsche puppet. With him behind the wheels of 997tt it would clock a 'Ring time of 7:45 sec. And the Z06 would see 7:57sec. Ring time is nonsense and meaning less.
Its best if you just deal with it, instead of fooling yourself and actching a tantrum
Remember our exchange of post regarding 996TT-X51 and F430 at the ring? and how the F430 was not going to be faster than the F360SC either?
Dec 15, 2005 10:59:24 PM
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svtrader1 said:
Drink all the Sport Auto(Porsche) Kool Aid you want. But, Saurma has no credibility. Remember an 8:15 sec time for a standard corvette, when Corvette engineer Dave Hill did it at about 8:00 min.
That's when I realized this guy was bought and paid for.
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svtrader1 said:Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
svtrader1 said:
Sport Auto is a joke. Horse von Saurma is a Porsche puppet. With him behind the wheels of 997tt it would clock a 'Ring time of 7:45 sec. And the Z06 would see 7:57sec. Ring time is nonsense and meaning less.
Its best if you just deal with it, instead of fooling yourself and actching a tantrum
Remember our exchange of post regarding 996TT-X51 and F430 at the ring? and how the F430 was not going to be faster than the F360SC either?
Drink all the Sport Auto(Porsche) Kool Aid you want. But, Saurma has no credibility. Remember an 8:15 sec time for a standard corvette, when Corvette engineer Dave Hill did it at about 8:00 min.
That's when I realized this guy was bought and paid for.
Dec 15, 2005 11:51:22 PM
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Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
svtrader1 said:
Drink all the Sport Auto(Porsche) Kool Aid you want. But, Saurma has no credibility. Remember an 8:15 sec time for a standard corvette, when Corvette engineer Dave Hill did it at about 8:00 min.
That's when I realized this guy was bought and paid for.
Let me get this straight, so you believe the GM's engineer rather than the independant maganzine editor who specialises in these comaprative tests? I think you believe just what you want to believe. If the lap time for the 430 would have been 7:40 you would be saying the opposite...
Rohrl also did 7:59 with the 997S-20mm while Saurma and 8:05. You see, Saurma is not going to extract the abosolute maximum potential the car can give with a factory test driver and factory support and factory conditions. But Saurma is an experienced driver, with experience at the ring, and experince with all the sportcars in the world... and in a combination like no other.
So he serves as the best reference for comparison for the cars performance in production specs like the ones out of the showroom, not in factory testing by factory paid drivers. You can only compare Saurma times to Saurma times.
If you add to this that the ring, a special track like no other, serves as the best reference any controlled enviroment can be for the real world roads, then... Sauma + Ring = best reference for Real World Performance to date.
If you don't like the news, don't kill the messenger, kill the Ferrari engineer
Dec 16, 2005 12:17:06 AM
Dec 16, 2005 12:34:24 AM
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
If it makes you feel better, Saurma is actually a secret Porsche test driver and the Vette tested was only using 3 cilinders how is that?
like I said, just deal with it, the supertest is the "Supertest"
Dec 16, 2005 12:58:42 AM
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
If it makes you feel better, Saurma is actually a secret Porsche test driver and the Vette tested was only using 3 cilinders how is that?
like I said, just deal with it, the supertest is the "Supertest"
Quote:
svtrader1 said:Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
If it makes you feel better, Saurma is actually a secret Porsche test driver and the Vette tested was only using 3 cilinders how is that?
like I said, just deal with it, the supertest is the "Supertest"
Deal with what? It's a meaningless test. Can you image if Saurma gets his hand on an Enzo.
Extra! Extra! It's the Enzo SuperDuperTest. Lap time is :drumroll: 7:50 woohoo!
BTW, are those mugs filled with beer or Porscephile Kool Aid?
Quote:
If there is one guy one can trust, it is Horst von Saurma, the editor-in-chief of SPORT AUTO. He is not only respected among Porschephiles but also among Ferraristi and other sportscar enthusiasts. He isn't arrogant and he loves cars. And it shows. Of course it can't be excluded that he is more talented on a certain type of car than on the other. But he usually also mentions little details in his tests and people get pretty fast a clue about how the car really was. I always hear absolutely fabulous performance times for the Corvette, not only straight line but also handling-wise. The problem with these numbers: I never saw a "confirmed" track time on the Nordschleife, just bla bla here and bla bla there. But considering the performance of the C6, I think that the Z version is pretty much at par with the F430 but definetely not better.