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    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Very nice and insightful review RC, thank you

    It was especially interesting to read about the tricky handling at the limit with PSM turned off since the Cayman has been hailed as the holy grail of handling by the press. Now we know better

    How does it compare to the Boxster S on the limit with PSM turned off? Is the Boxster just as tricky or is the Cayman worse?

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Interesting review RC. You raised points that the regular media missed or didnt want to mention.




    Or didn't have the capability to explore
    From the press reviews I have read they have mostly driven the Cayman "hard" around the nice roads of Tuscany with PSM turned on. Haven't seen many "at the limit with PSM turned off reviews" and most journalists would probably never be capable of getting as close to the limit as RC has.

    Then again, tricky handling at the limit may be down to RCs drivingstyle (only joking RC)

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Nice review RC, you made some very good points.

    Especially about the rear lights and interior. At Pounds43k I would expect a diff interior and a bit more work on the styling to differentiate it from the "lesser" boxster models...

    Honestly I still think your probably somewhat bias towards the 911 but whatever thats fine, I think you brought up some interesting points which have been missing from the general media.. ie on limit handling etc.

    Not drivin one yet but my biggest problem with it is that its a missed oportunity... Should have more power, LSD, sportier suspension... etc etc THis baby should have been more of a sportscar than what they have given us.... As it stands I dont think I'd buy one, rather take a second hand 911s in a couple of years!
    Cheers

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Thanks RC - good review. To add my two penneth, I saw the Cayman and 997 alongside each other last night and whilst I thought the 997 was better resolved, it looked heavy and cumbersome next to the Cayman which was lithe and athletic. All the Boxsters and Cayennes had been removed from the showroom; a rather unsubtle move I thought.

    As for handling, I used to have the Mk1 Elise that people said snapped into oversteer but I found it let go very benignly and very much like the 986 I have now. Also, I found the Ferrari F355 let go quickly and all the reviews raved about its handling - especially Clarkson! Perhaps driving style (nothing to do with prowess I hasten to add) is crucial?

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Great review

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Quote:
    Gauss said:
    RC, Thanks for your wonderful review! I remember in your Boxster review you mentioned a few options that one should absolutely get. How about the Cayman S, what are its must have options? PASM? what else?



    Good point. A must have for the Cayman is definetely PCCB. Most reviews done with PCCB were saying a lot of positive things and it seems that the PCCB adaptation for the Cayman S has been much better than for the Boxster S. For an enhanced braking experience AND better (if possible ) handling, the PCCB is a must-have option but unfortunately a very expensive one.
    I'm not sure about PASM though. PASM works great on the Cayman S but like I said before, in sport mode it gets really stiff, maybe too stiff for such a rigid body structure. And whoever plans to install a coilover kit (which in my opinion doesn't make sense because the chassis is almost perfect in my opinion) should not get PASM due to the complexity of the PASM system. Same applies to people who want to lower the Cayman S for better looks (and I have to agree, it looks much better lower) but I also have to warn to get more than 20-30 mm lowering compared to the original setup, especially from a handling point of view. Very low isn't always the best thing to do, especially Nordschleife Pros can sing a song about it. A single must-have reason: lower ride for better looks.
    The Bi-Xenons are definetely worth getting them, they provide an excellent light.
    Since Porsche doesn't approve the installation of aftermarket systems due to the complex nature of the MOST/CAN system, getting BOSE and maybe even the PCM system (if you need Navigation and a Phone in one integrated system) might be a good idea too.
    I would also recommend the thicker 3-spoke steering wheel, the hand grip is much better, especially if someone has little hands.
    I'm not sure about the 5 mm spacers, I didn't drive them yet and I even didn't see a car equipped with them.
    The sport seats are a must-have option too, the adaptive seats make only sense if you want to go to the track on a regular basis. I know that the adaptive seats are heavier but they can be adjusted to an almost perfect sidegrip.
    Another must-have option are the sport pipes, I'll have a picture posted tonight. Very nice look, much better than with the original exhaust pipes.
    I would also get the tire pressure control system, for safety reasons but this is some sort of personal preference.
    Full leather looks nice on the Cayman, especially with colored stitching. But this is also a question of personal taste. And finally the short shifter, this is definetely a must-have option. It improves shifting fun considerably.

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    RC, thanx for the interesting review. Your conclusions regarding the core elements (engine, steering, suspension, handling feel) is exactly what I would have expected from the officially announced tech data.

    As for looks (body): I guess it will remind a lot of people somewhat to the earlier body of the 911, which has grown over the years. Just spoke to a colleague in the US who loves his 993 and never considered a 996 or 997 just for looks (too GT-style in his opinion). He is quite interested in the Cayman (lookwise) - whether he will prefer the mid-engined handling characteristics over the 993 is another story though.

    I'm looking forward to my testdrive with the Cayman, but will stick to my Boxster S order anyway as I am not going to sacrifice the top-down experience for a just slightly better performance


    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:

    If anything, the Cayman shows just how brilliant the Boxster is and what compromises you have to accept to improve upon it.

    Its a shame the Boxster doesnt have the Caymans engine, a limited slip diff and the 997s full insturments to make a
    perfect package.



    JimFlat6: that would be exactly my wish-boxster
    Maybe I have to wait for the 988 model to show up with exactly these improvements - Porsche do you listen this time ? Meanwhile I will console myself with the 987S

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Quote:
    RichJ said:
    Honestly I still think your probably somewhat bias towards the 911 but whatever thats fine, I think you brought up some interesting points which have been missing from the general media.. ie on limit handling etc.



    Guys, the handling at the limit issue isn't too important in my opinion. The Cayman S handles just absolutely great, driving it at the LIMIT with PSM turned off is just more challenging. But this doesn't mean handling is bad, please don't get it wrong. Most people won't ever even touch the limit because they either aren't fast enough or they loose control over the car before reaching it. Very essential is a very "clean" driving style, very "nervous" people will never achieve record times in this car. Razor sharp handling and steering comes into my mind, this is actually something I really like about the Cayman S.

    I'd recommend to everybody who thinks that I'm biased towards the 911 to read my 997 Carrera S review and my Cayenne Turbo review. They may answer a few questions about me and my true "intentions".

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Here is a question for you RC, would you buy the Cayman S over the Boxster S?

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Quote:
    Gauss said:
    Here is a question for you RC, would you buy the Cayman S over the Boxster S?



    Tough one. IF I wouldn't want the possibility to drive topless when it is nice weather, definetely yes. Although the Cayman S costs substantially more than the Boxster S, it also gives you a few advantages regarding handling and of course a slightly better straight line performance too, not too speak about the top speed.

    BTW: do you guys actually know how fast the Boxster S and the Cayman S are? The Porsche 993 (911) does 0-125 mph in around 22 seconds. Both, the Boxster S and the Cayman S are faster. Even the first 996 models did 0-125 mph in 19 seconds (with the exception of that "togoodtobetrue" car tested in AMS for the first time), the Cayman S is slightly faster (~ 18 seconds). Also look at the top speed, the Cayman S does 275 kph, this was the top speed of the 993 over ten years ago.
    So I think this isn't a question of performance, both cars, the Boxster S and the Cayman S, are great performers. It is a question of personal taste, needs and maybe a little bit of fantasy too. For fun driving in areas of the world with nice weather for most of the year, I would probably prefer the Boxster S over the Cayman S. But otherwise, both are great cars and worth owning.

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Compared to the 997, the Cayman S is a new and fresh product which will find a lot of new friends, especially those who feel too young for the 911 or who just don't have enough money for a 911 yet and never liked the topless Boxster.



    I think there may be many more category of potential buyers. At my age (53), I no longer seek the fastest, most thrilling and exotic car for street use, because I now see the lunacy of driving "at the limit" on public roads with today's ever more capable cars. At the limit today means driving twice as fast through a series of corners than say 10 or 20 years ago, and the consequences to driver, passenger, pedestrians, personal property and the vehicle itself are proportionally even greater. At the limit driving for me has been pursued on the track with a dedicated race car (safety first, speed/handling the next, but close consideration).

    As with the MINI, the Cayman S may prove to be much more appealing to "middle-aged" people like me who can afford (and have owned) more expensive toys, but now want a simpler, focused vehicle that is a joy to drive to work, play, or to conduct errands.

    Otherwise, I enjoyed your review, thank you.

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Thanks for the extensive "short" review. It reinforces the respect I have for 'em midengine beasties, especially considered for use by not so experienced drivers, and the value of instruction to learn how to stay away from the spin threshold.

    Quote:
    The Bi-Xenons are definetely worth getting them, they provide an excellent light.
    Since Porsche doesn't approve the installation of aftermarket systems due to the complex nature of the MOST/CAN system, getting BOSE and maybe even the PCM system (if you need Navigation and a Phone in one integrated system) might be a good idea too.
    I would also recommend the thicker 3-spoke steering wheel, the hand grip is much better, especially if someone has little hands.
    I'm not sure about the 5 mm spacers, I didn't drive them yet and I even didn't see a car equipped with them.
    The sport seats are a must-have option too, the adaptive seats make only sense if you want to go to the track on a regular basis. I know that the adaptive seats are heavier but they can be adjusted to an almost perfect sidegrip.
    Another must-have option are the sport pipes, I'll have a picture posted tonight. Very nice look, much better than with the original exhaust pipes.
    I would also get the tire pressure control system, for safety reasons but this is some sort of personal preference.




    I'd agree with the options, particularly about the tail pipe. When I saw the original part at the Cayman launch party, it appeared unfinished... as if the two pipes were in the process of parting but not quite making it, thus hanging on to each other in an incomplete way.

    Quote:
    Full leather looks nice on the Cayman, especially with colored stitching.


    Oh no. And until then, I was happy that there was no mentioning of colored stitching or seatbelts!

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Well, having driven it today, I can confirm some of what RC says!
    No snap oversteer yet (fortunately!) - but this car feels it needs to be driven precisely, as any proper Porsche should

    Quick summary of impressions:

    Steering feel is excellent.
    Sports Chrono and PASM really sharpen it up, but "normal" PASM best for our lousy roads.
    Engine feels much more flexible than Boxster S - even at low revs (all I could try!).

    Negative point - huge blindspot in rear quarter. Had hoped that the quarterlight would help this (compared to Boxster), but it doesn't.

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    For what its worth...

    RC, thank you for taking the time for the review, it is informative . I am also glad that I believe I had the right interpretation of your views.

    My personal take overall is more simplistic that others I think, or may be not. I do view the Cayman as a Boxster with a roof. However, as it has always been with Porsche, which is also part of the company's charm, IMO, slight but impactful improvements have been incorporated into the platform; such as the Variocam +, increased chassis stiffness, keeping weight under control, etc.

    When 928 was released, it was marketed as the 911 replacement as we all know, and we also know what happened to that story. From a historical, emotional and strategic perspective it is truly ridiculous to view the Cayman or the platform as a threat to the 911. The 911=Porsche, period. I feel absolutely lucky that I am able to obtain a sports car that has some of the important technical setups of the 911 and Boxster incorporated to a fixed roof cousin. However, what makes the offering more than the sum of its parts is the decades of know-how that is in every Porsche, which also defines each car's soul. I am delighted actually that most components are re-used from platform to platform and year after year. They are proven components, again with slight improvements, each time around; and this is the main reason that Porsches are actually reliable. I remember in one of Vic Elford's writings that he kept mentioning how the 911 (original, 1964-66) would absolutely not break, even through Mille Miglia's torturous path. Do I not want that because I want a completely new car that is totally differentiated from the other models in Porsche's lineup? So far from my desires, I want a proven and reliable performance.

    When someone says "you get what you paid for" I take that as a big complement for Porsche and the Cayman. There are so many vehicles in the market place that are so far from that statement that after all these years and turmoil, Porsche is still able to offer the value we expect.

    Somehow the discussions are focused on whether is Cayman is "better" than Boxster or 911. First, I think hardly most of us can truly define "better" for the community. Even track numbers are not enough to define the term "better." Let alone, most people on forums hardly go to the track, autocross, or God forbid, do actual racing. Porsche makes a commitment: 911 is their flagship and it will stay that way. IMO, that is the best message they can give out, we want that! Even in early '90s during the development of new manufacturing processes, it was made clear that Boxster and 911 would share as much as possible in terms of design and components, but all compromises would be made to benefit the 911, not the Boxster. That was the right decision then and I think it is the right message today.

    Also, it would be incorrect to generalize that Cayman buyers are actually 911-wannabes with lesser funds. I do think there are distinct buyer categories between the platforms, but I have to also acknowledge that some percentage fits into the former category. For me, I always admired the 911 for what it stood: Porsche and its philosophy. However, I have also always known that 911 was not the car for me and such a purchase would leave me regretting my decision; it hasn't been about money. Boxster was much closer to what I needed, but as it is a convertible, I just could not buy it. It is a very nice surprise to see Porsche coming out with a Boxster with a roof, once Porsche announced its production, it was an easy decision for me; I did not even have to see the price or the exact specs. So long as it had the Porsche DNA with a roof other than the 911, it was sufficient for me.

    The part that I appreciate the most about RCs review and comments is that he is able to filter out his personal biases to his best ability and provide feedback within the value proposition that the car offers; I am actually quite impressed, not because I view his review as positive, but because he was able to stay true to journalism. How each one of us interpret the review depends, IMO, what we actually want to hear ;

    At the end, the Cayman is a great offering, a brilliant product placement and marketing tactic from Porsche. The value it offers in the market place is wonderfully controversial to the extend that only relatively small number of potential buyers will buy into its value equation; and 911 sales cannibalization will stay very low; which again what Porsche and its fanatics want I think. Put me into that group ;

    Thank you.

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Great review - thanks very much.


    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Another thanks RC, now I dont feel that I will be wasting my money by going for a Cayman S. Even though that I'm going for a loaded one.

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Quote:
    temm said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Interesting review RC. You raised points that the regular media missed or didnt want to mention.




    Or didn't have the capability to explore
    From the press reviews I have read they have mostly driven the Cayman "hard" around the nice roads of Tuscany with PSM turned on. Haven't seen many "at the limit with PSM turned off reviews" and most journalists would probably never be capable of getting as close to the limit as RC has.

    Then again, tricky handling at the limit may be down to RCs drivingstyle (only joking RC)



    Temm you are more than correct about the journalists. Most of them are writers first and drivers second, or third or fourth,or maybe shouldn't drive at all. The Dutch auto writer who crashed the new Z06 press car just 50 meters from the gas station is just one example.

    If you carefully read RC's driving reviews and also note his Cayenne driving techniques, you know that he definitely
    explores a vehicles limits. Most casual users and owners will never dare to go over 80% of their cars capabilities.

    I really want to see Hans Stuck review the Cayman S. Stuck has the race wins with front engine, mid engine and rear engined cars and with different generations of them, and he isnt a factory employee so he can speak freely. Somebody please loan him one!

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Quote:
    rfakhri said:
    Another thanks RC, now I dont feel that I will be wasting my money by going for a Cayman S. Even though that I'm going for a loaded one.



    Had a look today at the Cayman S at my West London dealer . In the flesh it looked alot better I must say , it was Silver and was wearing the Classic wheels which really worked..

    Very nice..

    throt..

    i believe the rear hatch

    has 2 different openings-
    open wide and mid level

    aloha

    steve

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Quote:
    rfakhri said:
    Another thanks RC, now I dont feel that I will be wasting my money by going for a Cayman S. Even though that I'm going for a loaded one.



    My pleasure.

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Quote:
    toplad said:
    I've changed my post, skim reading again.

    Poster who quoted me, please change my quotes too



    Great review RC thanks!
    Toplas, no worries mate.
    I would like to edit the part where I quoted your initial post but I honestly don't know how to do it.
    Do I need to go into manage this thread?
    Anyway, I appreciate your comment Toplad, we're all fine.

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    Quote:
    toplad said:
    I've changed my post, skim reading again.

    Poster who quoted me, please change my quotes too



    Great review RC thanks!
    Toplas, no worries mate.
    I would like to edit the part where I quoted your initial post but I honestly don't know how to do it.
    Do I need to go into manage this thread?
    Anyway, I appreciate your comment Toplad, we're all fine.



    Don't worry about it mate

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Good review but if I bought a Cayman S, I would feel silly if a 911S pulled up next to me at the lights. [I pulled up with a 911 Turbo next to a Boxter S and there was no traffic ahead over the Vauxhall Bridge - it felt good:)]

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Quote:
    Turbo 911 said:
    Good review but if I bought a Cayman S, I would feel silly if a 911S pulled up next to me at the lights. [I pulled up with a 911 Turbo next to a Boxter S and there was no traffic ahead over the Vauxhall Bridge - it felt good:)]



    Care to elaborate?

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    <Good review but if I bought a Cayman S, I would feel silly if a 911S pulled up next to me at the lights>

    Why? I suspect that this says more about you than the Cayman.

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Quote:
    KenH said:
    <Good review but if I bought a Cayman S, I would feel silly if a 911S pulled up next to me at the lights>

    Why? I suspect that this says more about you than the Cayman.



    And/or what he lacks and is compensating for. I'm referring the maturity, of course :-)

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    well as mr cockson said on top gear... it is like going to a urinar and discover there is a horse standing beside you

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Quote:
    schao said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Compared to the 997, the Cayman S is a new and fresh product which will find a lot of new friends, especially those who feel too young for the 911 or who just don't have enough money for a 911 yet and never liked the topless Boxster.



    I think there may be many more category of potential buyers. At my age (53), I no longer seek the fastest, most thrilling and exotic car for street use, because I now see the lunacy of driving "at the limit" on public roads with today's ever more capable cars. At the limit today means driving twice as fast through a series of corners than say 10 or 20 years ago, and the consequences to driver, passenger, pedestrians, personal property and the vehicle itself are proportionally even greater. At the limit driving for me has been pursued on the track with a dedicated race car (safety first, speed/handling the next, but close consideration).

    As with the MINI, the Cayman S may prove to be much more appealing to "middle-aged" people like me who can afford (and have owned) more expensive toys, but now want a simpler, focused vehicle that is a joy to drive to work, play, or to conduct errands.

    Otherwise, I enjoyed your review, thank you.



    Did Porsche misjudge the market for the Cayman? I ordered one. I am 55. I don't really care if it will outrun a 911 or not. I don't plan on "driving at the limit". I do see the Cayman as great fun to drive and own.

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    I completely agree with you Henry and Schao.
    I only got my Cayman yesterday so it is still "a new toy" but already I cannot believe that I will ever buy another 911 or M3 (and I do have a 997 and M3 too).
    I don't go to track days (although I used to race motor bikes) and these minute comparisons of 0-whatever and so on have nothing at all to do with driving on the road.
    I think we are getting at least 90% of a 997 for 75% of the cost but the 10% we might be missing doesn't interest me much.
    From another "older" person.

    Re: Cayman S - Short Review

    Quote:
    KenH said:
    I only got my Cayman yesterday so it is still "a new toy"



    Congrats! Would love to hear your thoughts of the car after you accumulate more seat time.

     
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