Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers - Page4

Oct 28, 2005 8:31:29 PM

schao: Co-Pilot; Loc: CT, USA; Posts: 185, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 12, 2005; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

I already have a convertible sports car with detachable hardtop, so don't need another. As for weekend playthings, I have a dedicated mid-engined sports racer (see www.westracecars.com and www.leestohr.com) and can't go back to street-based race cars. For daily driving, I don't need the +2 configuration. I no longer have a Modena because I have a faster weekend track toy and it collects more tickets in daily use than I care to admit to.

schao

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Oct 28, 2005 8:57:18 PM

amjf088: Co-Pilot; Loc: Toronto, Canada , Canada; Posts: 256, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 6, 2005; Reply to: schao

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

RC,

I think I was pretty clear before that I expect not much difference between a Cayman S and a Boxster S outside of the looks (purely subjective). So we agree there

And I also was pretty clear that like most, I see the $6000 price difference (in Canada) between the Cayman and the Boxster S as a bit of a rip off. So we agree there.

But, where I disagree with the original post is comparing the price of an optioned Cayman to a a base 997. The difference (as I mentioned before) is actually a little over $20K in Canada. That IS significant. I can buy a two year old WRX as a winter beater for that money, or make a whack of a paydown on my mortgage etc. And I'm not saying that a base 997 is not any less worth the $ than a Cayman, I'm just saying that there is a real price gap, base for base.

I like the Cayman for what it is, and I love the 911 (997). I would probably choose a 993 TT over either though for that money (however, no way a GT3 can be had in this market for Cayman money).

Final point is that the Cayman looks much better (to me) than a Boxster with the optional hardtop. Also, the integrated rood of a coupe will still be stiffer than the optional hard top. Probably not siginificant in real terms, but true nonetheless.

Anyway, this thread has gotten a little fierce at times, but I appreciate the debate and I think it has been quite interesting with good points made by many.

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Oct 28, 2005 8:57:35 PM

Martin Tyler: Co-Pilot; Loc: London, UK; Posts: 230, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

RC, I think you are assuming what people's expectations are because you cant understand why anyone would want 'a boxster with a roof for more money'. There are plenty of people that understand perfectly what the Cayman is, and they want one. Sure there are probably lots with expectations set too high, but not everyone.

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Oct 28, 2005 9:16:58 PM

MikeN: Senior; Loc: Arizona; Posts: 595, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
schao said:
I suppose my point is that posts trying to posit why either a 911 or Cayman S is clearly superior is bound to be 1) controversial, 2) totally inappropriate as you don't know the intent of any one buyer, 3) simply a waste of a lot of time and bandwith. Let's all take a breather and think before typing.

schao

I think you got the point. I wasn't bashing the Cayman S, I only tried to help people to lower their expectations. And if you read some of the replies in this thread, you'll understand why.
It is not about which car is the "best" one. It is about the best performer handling-wise and straight-line wise. This is a huge difference. And like it or not but I know a lot of people who want to get a Cayman S because they can't afford a 911 but at the same time try to fool themselves, of course with the help of "hooray" forums like Cayman Club, that the Cayman S is at least as "good" as a 997, performance-wise. This is why my evaluation started with plain numbers and not a full driving review. I didn't want to confront those who ordered a Cayman S because they simply like this car and it's concept without dreaming of a 911. I wanted to get a reply from those people who have a completely wrong view about the Cayman S.

And I'm afraid you got it a little bit wrong too: why would a 997 be a weekend plaything but a Cayman S a daily driver? I think both can be very well daily drivers, you should come to Germany and see how many 911 are used on a daily basis, including transporting kids, track fun and even driving through snow and on ice.
If you owned a Modena before, I'm not quite sure I understand how you could be happy with a Cayman S. But anyway: this whole thread isn't about which one is better, I drive all three current Porsche models, why should I buy a car which is worse than the other?! This thread is about fantasy, false expectations, clever marketing, Porsche roots, gossip and facts. To a few people, this thread seems to be the like the decision between life and death. And this is what I don't understand. You have the numbers, you can testdrive a Boxster S and a 997, you have pictures and specs of the Cayman S and some of you maybe even have seen this car in person and sat in it. So where's the reason for being irrational? Strange.

RC, I still think your missing the point for lot of Cayman buyers....

When I first put money down on a so called "new" model from Porsche back in Sept '04 it was still being called the Boxster Coupe. My only "expectations" at that time were to see a nicely styled coupe version of the Boxster with the then present Boxster engine lineup. At that time I could have easily bought (or been put on the list) for a 987 or 997.....but as I have stated before, I didn't want either one no matter what the numbers were. Yes, there were some people out there that immediately thought this new coupe would be the end-all of track cars and a 911 beater. Many of these dreamers are right here in this forum slighting the Cayman as we speak because they didn't get what they wanted from Porsche. Rumors spawned of CS versions, turbos, big engines, etc......all along I just wanted my Boxster coupe with a nice 280hp 3.2L.....I would have been very happy with that.....and still would be.

Fast forward to when the Boxster Coupe became the "Cayman". Suddenly it was a little more than most people were expecting and not at all what some others were.....mainly the guys looking for a mini GT3. At this point in time I wasn't really pleased with the new price and its new middle position in the lineup, but Porsche did produce a great looking car with more power and torque and typical great mid-engine handling. As far as the price goes, I still think it should cost a few $K less, but you can argue Porsche price points for every model they offer till you are blue in the face.....it is a futile effort. If you only go by the numbers then all of them are way overpriced.

So while some peoples expectations may need to be lowered.....mine have been totally fulfilled. The car is beautiful, performs very well, is a hardtop (I wouldn't have considered anything else), is better looking than a 911 IMO, will have superb mid-engine poise and balance, and is a Porsche! This is the car I have been waiting years for....and one single marginal road test compared to at least a dozen others that say otherwise is not going to make a dent in my enthusiasm for this car. It will truly be a winner to its lucky owners.

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Oct 28, 2005 10:53:48 PM

Chris Lo: Senior; Loc: HK , Hong Kong; Posts: 505, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
Chris Lo said:
I had a 996TT and it was a really great car, I drove it to work, shopping and track day. It was almost 100% satisfied me, except it's a bit old now. I love to drive new model so this is one of the reason I ordered a Cayman S. Another reason is this is a 2 seater sport coupe from PORSCHE.

Your statements are somehow confusing. First, you say you owned a 996 Turbo but it was kind of too old(?) and you ordered a Cayman S because it is a 2-seater sport coupe from Porsche. Sounds OK but...then you state in a second post that the 911 doesn't have enough power and if the 997 Turbo doesn't have at least 500 HP, you won't go for it.

Would you please explain? I mean the Turbo isn't powerful enough for you but you go for a Cayman S???

Sorry for the confusion, I don't mean Cayman S is the replacement of 996TT. That is 2 things.

1st, what I mean 996TT is a bit too old is, it was released since 00', already 5 years and time for something new. I had replaced it with a Gallardo not a Cayman S.

2nd, I look for a small sports car and can't see any maker doing better than Porsche so I choose Cayman S, nothing related to the 996TT.

3rd, I think 997TT should be the same level as F430 and Gallardo, if it won't have a similar power as those cars and also with the old 5 speed tiptronic. I think no point for me to get it. That's why I said it better has at least 500bhp and a gear box like F1/E-gear.

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Oct 28, 2005 10:55:13 PM

mcdelaug: Expert; Loc: Fort Worth, Texas , United States; Posts: 1919, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2004; Reply to: MikeN

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

MikeN

I have my own reasons for not being interested in the Cayman, but I think your post sums up very clearly what many have been trying to express. I hope you enjoy your Cayman for many years in good health.

mcdelaug

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Oct 28, 2005 11:22:05 PM

Chris Lo: Senior; Loc: HK , Hong Kong; Posts: 505, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: mcdelaug

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

IMHO, I think we should compare Apple to Apple. To me, Cayman S is the same level to SLK55 and M3, not 997.

In another forum, there was somebody saying he was quite disappointed with Cayman S because it was much slower than a CGT, 997 and CT in track and can't even catch up. That sounds quite stupid to me, they are all in different class, how can you compare that?!

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Oct 29, 2005 12:16:09 AM

amir sarmad: Veteran; Loc: dubai, UAE; Posts: 909, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2005; Reply to: mcdelaug

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

cayman is a rich man's boxster.

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Oct 29, 2005 12:29:57 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Chris Lo

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

There is always a certain problem with internet forums. Since we don't know each other personally, it is easy to pretend to be somebody we aren't or to tell stories which nobody can really verify. This is one of the biggest downsides of internet forums, you never know who to "trust". Unfortunately there are people who believe everything they read on the internet, no matter who wrote it. So if it fits into their view of a certain issue, they accept it. If not, they don't accept it and even deny it.

In the many years we're running this forum, I learned who to trust and what to believe.

The internet is fully of ego driven maniacs, greedy vendors or people who love to impersonate somebody they aren't to keep them up and running because their real life is not even close to the things they like to tell people.

Believe it or not but a lot of people who are posting on car forums don't have a clue about what they're talking. They speculate, they imitate, they lie, they cheat, they steal information from other sites or just make up a nice story based on the experience of a friend/relative or even something they watched somewhere. And there are also those super naive buyers who really believe gossip and advertisement, I've met so many people in my life who were incredibly bad informed about the car they were interested in to buy. I won't forget the guy who entered my dealership and asked about the Cheyenne (yep, he referred to the Indians and spelled it this way) or the other guy who asked where the engine is in a 997 Cab.

And I always hear the same story about top speed (remember, we have no general speed limit on the Autobahn over here in Germany): "why do you need such a fast car, you can't drive that speed anywhere?"

So like I said before, I have nothing against the Cayman S. Nothing. I just wanted to help. People who buy the Cayman S because they just like the concept, will very likely be very happy with this car. Others who expect something completely different than the Boxster S, will be very disappointed sooner or later. And trust me, from my own experience: disappointment costs a lot of money. I think you get it.

And a last thing: such discussions are very interesting because people actually DISCUSS. Everybody shouting "hooray" or "naahhh" all the time isn't fun.

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Oct 29, 2005 1:53:48 AM

schao: Co-Pilot; Loc: CT, USA; Posts: 185, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 12, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

RC, you are right disappointment costs. Only time will tell whether the Cayman S goes the way of the 944 Turbo S or 928. Both of those latter cars, in their time, were statistically well matched against the 911, and are acknowledged to be great driver's cars. However, the resale values of both have lagged the 911. Didn't know you ran a dealership (Porsche or independent?). As an aside, what are you doing up at this upgodly hour in Germany? :-)

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Oct 29, 2005 4:14:01 AM

FTS: Newbie; Loc: MD, USA , United States; Posts: 21, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 23, 2005; Reply to: bubblegum

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

Hello all,

I think this is my first post here and really like to forums, good job RC, Ron and all the moderators.

close to 20 years ago I drove few porsche's and helped service them as a young kid trying go after my dream: race driver. Working with my hands on THE LEGEND, the 911, was an increadable experience, lusting over them. However, I never got the chance to really improve my driving to my own and other's satisfaction (I seemed to crash a little too often

), and kept rallying with my ahh-it-is-going-to-break-into-half-in-this-corner Renault 12; eventually it actually did and without more funds and more talent I had to quit racing.

20 years and many cars later (I still crash somewhat often), I decided to come back to the Porsche world and ordered a Cayman S. Why you asked, RC:

1a- The emotions of the "Prosche brand", I really did have the 911T poster in my room for years.
1b- I never feel comfortable with a drop-top, it must be the frequent crashes.
1c- I no longer race, just few track events.
2a- I am terribly sensitive, in a bad way, to the pendulm of the 911, not my style, cannot get the car to do what I want.
2b- 997 is exactly $10K more for me
2c- Believe it or not, I feel lost in the 997, too big for me, almost the same feeling as in my 645Ci.
3- never had the chance to own a mid-engine car, let's see how it is.
4a- Cayman is new, different, something to be explored.
4b- Life's boring without some adventure; I may be terribly disappointed with the Cayman, or may just love it. May be I'll go for a 911 someday, but does not seem likely looking from today; even though, it IS the legend.

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Oct 29, 2005 11:41:26 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: FTS

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

Quote:
FTS said:
Hello all,

I think this is my first post here and really like to forums, good job RC, Ron and all the moderators.

close to 20 years ago I drove few porsche's and helped service them as a young kid trying go after my dream: race driver. Working with my hands on THE LEGEND, the 911, was an increadable experience, lusting over them. However, I never got the chance to really improve my driving to my own and other's satisfaction (I seemed to crash a little too often ), and kept rallying with my ahh-it-is-going-to-break-into-half-in-this-corner Renault 12; eventually it actually did and without more funds and more talent I had to quit racing.

20 years and many cars later (I still crash somewhat often), I decided to come back to the Porsche world and ordered a Cayman S. Why you asked, RC:

1a- The emotions of the "Prosche brand", I really did have the 911T poster in my room for years.
1b- I never feel comfortable with a drop-top, it must be the frequent crashes.
1c- I no longer race, just few track events.
2a- I am terribly sensitive, in a bad way, to the pendulm of the 911, not my style, cannot get the car to do what I want.
2b- 997 is exactly $10K more for me
2c- Believe it or not, I feel lost in the 997, too big for me, almost the same feeling as in my 645Ci.
3- never had the chance to own a mid-engine car, let's see how it is.
4a- Cayman is new, different, something to be explored.
4b- Life's boring without some adventure; I may be terribly disappointed with the Cayman, or may just love it. May be I'll go for a 911 someday, but does not seem likely looking from today; even though, it IS the legend.

I can live with that and I guess you too.

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Oct 29, 2005 2:59:46 PM

luko: Junior; Loc: england; Posts: 138, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 31, 2005; Reply to: amir sarmad

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

Quote:
amir sarmad said:
cayman is a rich man's boxster.

it's ignorant comments like this that get peoples backs up.

Carrera S is a poor mans Turbo, Carrera is a poor mans Carrera S...you can say this about any car, against any other car.

Time you got yourself a brain.

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Oct 29, 2005 6:18:42 PM

Rick: Newbie; Loc: Hilton Head, South Carolina; Posts: 23, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2005; Reply to: amir sarmad

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

Quote:
amir sarmad said:
cayman is a rich man's boxster.

I agree with Luco - and by the way, how about a 21st century avatar ??

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Oct 29, 2005 8:16:50 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: amir sarmad

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

Quote:
amir sarmad said:
cayman is a rich man's boxster.

As I have stated elsewhere, if you want an open top sports Porsche buy a Boxster. If you want a coupe sports Porsche buy a 911. If you want to fall between both buy a Cayman. One thing a Cayman isn't is a substitute for either.

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Oct 29, 2005 9:30:14 PM

amir sarmad: Veteran; Loc: dubai, UAE; Posts: 909, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2005; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

luko,

iforgot the "

" face after my comment, which was meant to induce some sort of sarcasm. Anyways, why did my "ignorant comment" flare so much interest in you? Perhaps it was because of comments like mine which made you feel weak deep inside for owning a cheaper version of another car or anything else for that matter (issue whith self confidence? are you an underachiever?)?

frankly, i dont give a **** about people's " ignorant comments". Unlike some people, i use moral reasoning to judge what is fact and what is a random opinion.

And Rick, my avatar represents my character, my age, my passion and most importantly my sexual prefrence. how about you not look at my non "21st century avatar" if it bothers you that much!.

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Oct 29, 2005 10:34:53 PM

toplad: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 166, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 13, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

This thread sucks!

I like how you put "with Real numbers" in the title as if to imply other test were in some way false and the most negative one is correct

All smacks of Purchase justification and bitterness to me

Keep grinding that axe, if it makes you feel better

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Oct 30, 2005 2:17:31 AM

friedman_japan: Newbie; Loc: Japan; Posts: 13, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2005; Reply to: toplad

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

Car and Driver reports in their test results that 0-60 passes in 5.1 seconds. In the end, all the talk on numbers is a bit off the mark, a good car in the hands of a terrible driver will be smacked by a bad car in the hands of a skilled driver. Full stop.

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Oct 30, 2005 2:21:26 AM

Lazy Cat: Pilot; Loc: On the Sofa; Posts: 422, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 2, 2005; Reply to: toplad

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

Hi everybody!

I'm not on Rennteam for a long time but, from what i have seen , this forum is great because it's more like a "help and advice" place than like an "ego-battle" place.

I don't really understand the aggressivity shown by some of the posters of this thread.

I read it from the beginning to the end.

What i feel is that RC just wanted to help people who could have been bad informed about the car's real nature.I see nothing bad with that...

Of course it's a real Porsche, of course it will handle superbly,of course both are good daily drivers and track cars but (i had a look to the car specs and technical schemes)it is obvious that this car is a very slightly upgraded roofed-Boxster.

Reading the price list,it is also obvious that this car is engineered and considered by Porsche as being "under" the 911 and not like a truly equal alternative, exactly like between BoxsterS and Carrera cab.

Knowing the technical facts, there is no surprise for me to see that the Cayman test results are closer to a BoxsterS than to a 997.

In fact i had guessed it a long time ago and i really think it is more clever to check what the car really is instead of what the marketing or sales department say about it.

Owning both, i think RC is in a very good position to give his feelings about these cars and what he would prefer for a certain amount of money.

An advice is "only" an advice, but i prefer to get it from an owner than from a salesman!

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Oct 30, 2005 4:33:45 AM

frayed: Senior; Loc: Austin, TX , United States; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2004; Reply to: Futch

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

I can't possibly read all that. Anyway, as to the issue of cars again:

Quote:
Fanch said:

You did change your perspective on the 911 line though RC, I remember that when the Cayman was announced, you wrote that Porsche was testing the market to eventually replace the 911, hence the minimal change between the 996 and 997.

Is that right? RC predicted the demise of the 911 now its painted as a boxster hardtop. Why the change in views?

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Oct 30, 2005 10:30:14 AM

toplad: Co-Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 166, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 13, 2004; Reply to: Lazy Cat

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

Quote:
Cookie Monster said:
Hi everybody!

Owning both, i think RC is in a very good position to give his feelings about these cars and what he would prefer for a certain amount of money.

An advice is "only" an advice, but i prefer to get it from an owner than from a salesman!

The obvious point your missing is RC doesn't own a Cayman, does he?

You can tell from the title this thread is bollocks.

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Oct 30, 2005 2:30:36 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: toplad

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

Ooooh guys,

the smacking doesn't stop?

Why does everybody gets so excited when someone offers you some first-hand information.

For the record

1. AMS was one of the very first who put the Cayman S through regular testing procedure - the same that Boxster S and 997 went through. He just provided you with those numbers

2. if some of you would have read the TEXT of that article you would've realized that this car is not short on anything ! Handles great, has much more front-end grip than the 997 but in terms of power or pricing you shouldn't expect a surprise.

So what's the matter?

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Oct 30, 2005 2:46:17 PM

Avantgarde: Senior; Loc: City State; Posts: 708, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 6, 2005; Reply to: toplad

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

Well, we all know that RC actually owns both a Carrera and a Boxster which the greater majority of us have only have the means to own either one or the other. And he recently actually test drove a Cayman. That ought to give him enough integrity, worthiness in his feedback IMHO. FWIW, I would rely on someone like him to provide an objective review for the Cayman in this case.

Cheers

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Oct 30, 2005 4:36:53 PM

Lazy Cat: Pilot; Loc: On the Sofa; Posts: 422, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 2, 2005; Reply to: toplad

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

Quote:
toplad said:

The obvious point your missing is RC doesn't own a Cayman, does he?

Sorry Toplad, i meant "owning both chassis"

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Oct 31, 2005 3:16:02 AM

mark34: Junior; Loc: Austin, TX; Posts: 62, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2004; Reply to: Lazy Cat

COS COS COS COS

This has been a test of the COS early warning system. Be wary of Current Owner Syndrome. It can strike at anytime. Makes many ignore 95% of the data and subjective reports they read and focus on the 5% that make them feel better about themselves and the model car they drive. Very dangerous and contagious.

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Oct 31, 2005 5:01:40 AM

WAY: Rennteam Master; Loc: Melbourne, Australia; Posts: 3344, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: mark34

My reason for a Cayman S

First some numbers:
Boxster S: $132,500
Cayman S: $148,500
911 C2: $192,225

RC, given those numbers, is your view still the same? As you can see, the Cayman S is not that much more than a Boxster S here in percentage terms, but hugely cheaper than a 997 C2.

Now let me tell you why I lust over the Cayman S and am getting one:
1. It looks better than a 911 IMHO (not counting the GT and turbo series). Obviously looks are subjective, but to me it is more aggresive, and definitely younger looking. When I am 35 I will not mind a 911 (I am only 30). The Cayman S is definitely a better match for someone my age.
2. My Boxster S does suffer from flex despite what you may say. Maybe on billiard table smooth roads in Germany this is not an issue, but here in Australia the roads (especially country roads) do tend to have more bumps. A stiffer structure should help. I bet you that reviews coming out of the UK, US and Australia will have a different point of view given that our roads are not as smooth.
3. When I bought the Boxster S, I actually want a Boxster coupe, but it isn't availble. I am not big on convertibles.

RC, maybe you can't answer this, but did you push the Cayman S to the limit when you drove it? I would imagine that it will be just like a Boxster S up to 7th or 8th tenth, but it is when you extract the last couple of tenth that the extra rigidity is going to shine through. Physics dictates that the Cayman will always be better than the Boxster dynamically with stiffer body shell and uprated suspension. I liken it to a comparison between a 911 Cab and 911 coupe. Do you think the cab is as capable a track car as the coupe?

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Oct 31, 2005 10:14:44 AM

JohnJohn: Senior; Loc: Sweden; Posts: 555, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 22, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

Quote:
RC said:
German car magazine just tested the Cayman S in their latest issue, here are some of the test results:

0-100 kph in 5.5 sec. (Boxster S: 5.4 sec., 997 CS: 4.7 sec.)
0-160 kph in 12 sec. (Boxster S: 12.4 sec., 997 CS: 10.7 sec.)
0-200 kph in 19.2 sec. (Boxster S: 20.2 sec., 997 CS: 16.6 sec.)

Weight (measured): 1415 kg (Boxster S: 1418 kg without PCCB and 997 Carrera S: 1482 kg)

Cayman S was equipped with PCCB brake!
997 Carrera S was equipped with PASM (standard).
Boxster S was equipped with standard brake.

Slalom 18m: 66.1 kph (Boxster S: 67.9 kph, 997 CS: 66.9 kph)
ISO Handling Test: 140.9 kph (Boxster S: 134.2 kph, 997 CS: 142.4 kph)

High Speed Braking Test (from 190 kph to 0): 128 m (Boxster S without PCCB: 130 m and 997 CS: 129 m)

Guys, I hate to say this but in my opinion, a 997 Carrera for almost the same money would be the better buy.
The car tested in AMS had a price tag of over 81000 Euro, the 997 Carrera is slightly over 76000 Euro over here in Germany and the best thing, you can get it with the 20 mm chassis and the limited slip differential, not to speak about the almost identical weight figure and 30 HP more.

Your choice guys...but I still don't see how the Cayman S fits in between the Boxster S and the 997 Carrera.
The weight WITH PCCB is only 67 kg lighter than the weight of the Carrera S! The difference to a 997 CS with PCCB would be around 47 kg only. Not really impressive.

BTW: AMS made a last comment about the fact that Cayman S owners may have to live with the "smell" driving a "poor man's" 911. Nothing more to say...I'm afraid.

Just for comparison, the test data of the 997 Carrera:
Weight: 1475 kg (standard brake)
0-100 kph: 4.9 sec.
0-160 kph: 11.4 sec.
0-200 kph: 18.1 sec.
Slalom 18m: 66.8 kph
ISO Handling Test: 141.9 kph
Braking from 190 kph to 0: 130 m

Do yourself a favor, buy for almost the same money an almost "naked" 997 Carrera. Not only will you drive the REAL thing, you have more space and sooner or later, you'll want a 911 anyway because Porsche marketing secretly hopes that the Cayman S is some sort of jumping board to upgrade to the 911 sooner or later.

RC: I haven't read through all posts, comments and questions, so someone might have asked this earlier: What size wheels were sitting on the Boxster S and Cayman S test cars?

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Oct 31, 2005 8:39:23 PM

KenH: Co-Pilot; Loc: Leesburg VA; Posts: 249, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: DamienL

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

I really don't understand this thread.
I have a 997, my eleventh Porsche and sixth 911.
It is a wonderful car but it is still a 911.
Porsche might have tamed the way that a rear-engined car handles but ultimately the characteristics are still there.
I have a Cayman S on order and it arrives in about a month.
It is not a replacement for the 997 (the two cars will be on different continents).
I really don't care whether it is a second slower or faster that the 997 on any particular benchmark - what has that got to do with real-world driving on the road?
What does excite me is the possibility (as yet unknown since I have yet to drive a Cayman) that the mid-engined layout of a car with 90% or so of the power of my 997 and equivalent or better torsional rigidity will be more exciting to drive on challenging roads. I don't mean by that that I want the "heart in my mouth" of the old 911s, more the fluidity that one gets when one's mental capabilities match the physical capabilities of the machine.
It remains to be seen whether this will be the case so I wil have to reserve judgement.
But as far as 0-100kph, 0-200kph and so on are concerned they are just numbers and what I (and I think most of us) am looking for is better described as emotion.

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Oct 31, 2005 10:00:45 PM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: KenH

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

Quote:
KenH said:
I really don't understand this thread.
I have a 997, my eleventh Porsche and sixth 911.
It is a wonderful car but it is still a 911.
Porsche might have tamed the way that a rear-engined car handles but ultimately the characteristics are still there.
I have a Cayman S on order and it arrives in about a month.
It is not a replacement for the 997 (the two cars will be on different continents).
I really don't care whether it is a second slower or faster that the 997 on any particular benchmark - what has that got to do with real-world driving on the road?
What does excite me is the possibility (as yet unknown since I have yet to drive a Cayman) that the mid-engined layout of a car with 90% or so of the power of my 997 and equivalent or better torsional rigidity will be more exciting to drive on challenging roads. I don't mean by that that I want the "heart in my mouth" of the old 911s, more the fluidity that one gets when one's mental capabilities match the physical capabilities of the machine.
It remains to be seen whether this will be the case so I wil have to reserve judgement.
But as far as 0-100kph, 0-200kph and so on are concerned they are just numbers and what I (and I think most of us) am looking for is better described as emotion.

Ken,

The point of this thread was to counter some of the enthusiasm generated on this board, as well as throughout the sports car media, that the Cayman S was indeed a "threat" as a potential "replacement" for the 911-see my sarcastic comment on the Sports Car Board re. R&T's November issue declaring: "Porsche Cayman S: Best Porsche Ever!" Egad's.

Much of the discussion lately has been how the Cayman supposedly handles "better than a 911" (at least based on Ring times), and is nearly as fast as a 911. Actually, I'm in a similar situation as yours-I have a 911 (2005 996TSCab) which I'm keeping until the 997TT replacement comes out,

BUT I also wanted a mid-engined RWD coupe and at first glance, the Cayman sounded like a good concept-but I quickly realized that, style issues aside, the car was going to be weak in the HP and torque departments. Alas, 0-60 times ARE important, because the faster a car goes 0-60, the more likely it can go faster on the road than if the SAME car were slower 0-60. BUT the Cayman was intentionally underpowered by P to avoid "threatening" the 911's performance. SO, RC was simply responding to the Cayman Board participants' and the rest of the worlds' mindset (including P marketing folks who supposedly limited the Cayman's powerplant) to view the Cayman as a competitor of the 911-not that this includes you or many others who have decried the Cayman-bashing from the 911 "camp." And he merely tried to dampen the enthusiasm for a car that is touted as faster than the 911. He was suggesting in his thread starter that for buyers who think of the Cayman as giving 911 performance at Pontiac prices (

), that they will be disappointed-so that for a 911 wannabe, the Cayman S is hard to justify, for somebody like yourself, a Cayman S may suit you well, that's all, nothing to get upset about. That's partly why I bought a Noble M400 for my summer thrash coupe instead.

But if P decides to build a Cayman with lots more power in the future-like 500HP and 500Nm torque from twin-turbocharged, 3.8L Boxer 6 with a power-to-weight ratio of 400bhp/tonne-which the M400 accomplished, I (along with I suspect alot of other shoppers) will be VERY MUCH interested. Do you hear that, Dr. Wiedeking?

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Oct 31, 2005 10:52:38 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: JohnJohn

Re: Cayman S Test Drive with REAL numbers

Quote:
JohnJohn said:
RC: I haven't read through all posts, comments and questions, so someone might have asked this earlier: What size wheels were sitting on the Boxster S and Cayman S test cars?

Same size, 19'' wheels. The Cayman S also had the PCCB brake which should have given him an advantage in those handling performance figures.

Maybe one reason why it performed slightly better than the Boxster S. BTW: the 997 Carrera S used in the comparison had PASM, not the 20 mm chassis. The 20 mm chassis, NOT available for the Cayman S (I wonder if somebody can tell me why...I can

), makes a huge difference.

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COS COS COS COS

My reason for a Cayman S

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