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Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
absent:Milanno:What do you think guys
I hope for a smaller wing...
I was thinking in same direction, but when I heard rumored power of new GT2 RS I left same wing like on GT3 RS 
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My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com
Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
TB993tt:Just thinking some more about this, these electric motors add their torque to the output of the gas engines presumably through some gear mechanism (I don't understand it but thought that was the way it works on the 918) so if this is the case then a 580hp turbo S type motor could gain another 100 or so hp into the driveline from a smaller electric motor hence no need for big blowers.... FFS will someone tell us what is going on
Normal electric motors are direct driven, but through a differential at most , like in Tesla and other electric cars.
918's front motor works the same way. The rear motor on the 918 however sits behind the gearbox and gets shifted just like a gasoline engine and the torque multiplication that comes with a gearbox.
It is also the same setup for the last gen/current gen Panamera, and the Cayenne.
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Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
BiTurbo:Milanno:absent:Milanno:What do you think guys
Side air intakes on the wing
I agree, must have side intakes in the rear spoiler to be a GT2....
You know the function of the intakes on the car below are the other way round ? The ones in the lower bodywork are the air intakes a la GT3RS and the ones on the top (which are adjustable so airflow can be controlled according to cooling needs) are for directing air through the intercoolers. This car has 90% same engine as in my 7GT2.
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997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar
Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
I spoke with Walliser at COTA last weekend; he clearly conveyed no hybrid until next generation due to packaging limitations in 991 chassis.
Guest, I saw some of your related posts on RL. Do you want to share some of the questions you put to Walliser and his team at COTA last weekend and the tidbits of information gleaned there?
Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
TB993tt:KresoF1:
I am not fan of intrigue.
My view, a personal guess...
991.2 GT2 RS
-a very special turbo
-intro July 2017
Any clues to what this means ?
VTG turbos ? unlikely if it is to have over 650hp as they would not develop a bigger turbo just for one limited model
An advanced BW design drawn from the EFR series developed in the US ?
Different brand turbos (than BW), as used on the Cayennes and Pans ?
A third small turbo for some kind of quick spool arrangement ?
Delivery enhanced by an electric motor somehow ?
For my last shot at this (for the moment 
) I am going for one of options 2 and 3 above ie an advanced conventional non VTG turbo.
Whoopsey before has spoken about the various stages of engine development being carried out and I'm sure he talked about a further development of the GT3RS engine which will be the basis for a racing engine.
I am thinking that this will be the new GT2RS engine with a 4.0l displacement, a relatively high compression ratio @ ~10:1 improved intercooling (those side intake pods are already proven to be very effective - see pics of the racer above, these pods really work) set up to run to 7500rpm with peak power at 7000rpm.
Torque will be limited to about 800NM dropping to 715NM at peak power, boost levels will be kept below 1.2bar by engine efficiency.
Surely the most modern tech can easily produce this kind of motor for production ? Combined with PDK and all the other tricks the car will be a monster which will easily be able to deploy all its torque and this sort of torque curve in a sub 1400kg PDK car will be devastating on track and capable of 0-300kph in under 24s even with big aero.
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997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar
Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
Guest:TB993tt:KresoF1:The answer is in one of your guesses.
It has to be some sort of lag mitigation.
My guess is turbos correctly sized for 700hp (which will be quite big, ~70mm compressor wheels) which with production friendly intercoolers (ie cheap ones as currently, although with the 200K + price tag it would be incredible if Porsche gave us some proper stuff and commissioned their old supplier Secan to supply a run of proper intercoolers
) which will hit full boost around 3500rpm, these turbos will be conventional non VTG, maybe a break from BW.
The anti lag will either be third turbo or some electric stuff. Packaging for the third turbo is too challenging on the flat six layout so I'm thinking some kind of electric motor assistance, Porsche must be pretty hot on this tech after the 918 and all the other hybrid stuff so it must be doable.
I can't believe that Porsche are managing to keep this under wraps so well as this is a massive development for a 911 engine, very exciting.....
I spoke with Walliser at COTA last weekend; he clearly conveyed no hybrid until next generation due to packaging limitations in 991 chassis.
Was never different...hybrid comes with the next 911 generation. 
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)
Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
As Whoopsey explained a while ago, the race engine in the latest GT3 R race car benefits from revised oil flow management and few other changes which he described as generation 2.0, as opposed to gen 1.0 in the 991.1 GT3 and gen 1.5 in the 991.1 GT3 RS. The 991.2 GT3 road car is supposed to get a version of this gen 2.0 as well.
So, given that gen 2.0 has now had time to prove itself under race conditons, it may also serve as the basis for the new turbo-charged version for the RSR and a the GT2 RS road car. This is basically my scenario 1 posted yesterday, and very much my hoped-for solution.
Scenario 2 would, for instance, be a derivative of the next generation 992 Turbo S road car engine, therefore it would not be based on a race engine at all.
Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
The next 911 Turbo/Turbo S gets a completely new engine (totally new development), so a lot of scenarios are possible, incl. the one you mentioned. I seriously have no more details about the GT2 RS but the details I have about the next generation 911 Turbo engine are impressive (if true and if Porsche doesn't decide to use their cost cutting magic again 
). The next 911 Turbo, in the lack of a "960", needs to compete with a bunch of current and new supercars and Porsche knows that.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)
Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
Agreed, the new 992 road car turbo engine basically needs to create a lot of performance headroom, given that the current generation has completely exhausted its performance and development potential.
As you say, the lack of a "960" makes this all the more important. Still, they may decide to cut a few (cost) corners on the petrol engine itself, as the possible addition of hybrid elments may make up for an engine performance shortfall vis-a-vis the competition.
In any event, the question would be if this new road car engine, even if high-tech and with high power potential, could also spawn a reliable race engine version, thereby allowing them to kill two or three birds (Turbo/S, RSR, GT2 RS) with one stone.
Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
olli:Agreed, the new 992 road car turbo engine basically needs to create a lot of performance headroom, given that the current generation has completely exhausted its performance and development potential.
As you say, the lack of a "960" makes this all the more important. Still, they may decide to cut a few (cost) corners on the petrol engine itself, as the possible addition of hybrid elments may make up for an engine performance shortfall vis-a-vis the competition.
In any event, the question would be if this new road car engine, even if high-tech and with high power potential, could also spawn a reliable race engine version, thereby allowing them to kill two or three birds (Turbo/S, RSR, GT2 RS) with one stone.
I heard that and please don't nail me on this one because my contacts to Porsche Motorsport are very limited (mostly through Weissach and other people) Porsche will not develop a race car engine based on a road car engine and vice versa because of changing reglementations, different racing series and also changing environmental and sound emissions laws. So this basically means that the race engines won't have much in common with the road car engines and vice versa, even if some features will be marketed as common.
Again, my contacts to Porsche Motorsport are very limited, so... 
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)
Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
Agreed RC, makes complete sense to me, which is why it makes such a big difference (at least to me) if we are talking about my Scenario 1 (eg turbo charged version of GT3 R race engine) or Scenario 2 (road car engine based) regarding the engine for the GT2 RS...
Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
I'm betting on GT2RS
Larger Non-VTG Turbo with electric spooling assist (which I believe is already in use at Audi?)
HP begins with a "7"
Engine/gearbox flip
Flip allows larger rear diffuser and sees return of front aerilons
Flip makes the tub have to change (rear seat cavities becomes a hump) and cage is a little more robust because of it.
Less made than the 911 R
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Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region
Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
Mithras:I'm betting on GT2RS
Larger Non-VTG Turbo with electric spooling assist (which I believe is already in use at Audi?)
BW ebooster 
http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/products/eBooster.aspx
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997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar
Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
olli:Mithras, your bet is my "dream"...
If they make less than 911R, it could become a dream crusher. 
As far as I heard, production will only be limited by time frame.
The price tag of the car will however limit the number of cars produced, I am pretty sure about this.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)
Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
RC:olli:Mithras, your bet is my "dream"...
If they make less than 911R, it could become a dream crusher.
As far as I heard, production will only be limited by time frame.
The price tag of the car will however limit the number of cars produced, I am pretty sure about this.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)
i just heard today that the production window will be so short such that they are thinking of numbering the cars again.
also i hear no GT3RS next year. can someone confirm this?
peter
Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
RC:olli:Mithras, your bet is my "dream"...
If they make less than 911R, it could become a dream crusher.
As far as I heard, production will only be limited by time frame.
The price tag of the car will however limit the number of cars produced, I am pretty sure about this.
If i were a betting man I'd say that would be a very safe wager. 
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fritz
Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
Peter, don't forget, the remaining life span of the 991 generatiion is only another 2 years until the fall of 2018, so the question is how many different GTx models they can realistically squeeze in (assuming GT3.2 and GT2 RS will happen).
Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
fritz:RC:The price tag of the car will however limit the number of cars produced, I am pretty sure about this.
If i were a betting man I'd say that would be a very safe wager.
Not in the UK, you would not believe how there is a whole industry of professional car dealer "flippers" sprung up all with letters of intent at their local OPC for every special model introduced.
My OPC has many LOI for the GT2/RS from people who will buy any special model Porsche produce. A high price tag may make it a bit more challenging for them but no doubt many of them will be able to finance the purchase with current low interest rates.
I have predicted to my OPC that once Article 50 is enacted there will be a big Brexit wobble (which will burst this ridiculous bubble) and it will be him chasing ME to buy this car 
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997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar
Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
I tried that before...trust me, it doesn't work. Too many Scrooge relatives here...
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)
Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
olli:Peter, don't forget, the remaining life span of the 991 generatiion is only another 2 years until the fall of 2018, so the question is how many different GTx models they can realistically squeeze in (assuming GT3.2 and GT2 RS will happen).
exactly. i hope there won't be another GT3RS, but i am afraid they will output at least a special edition.
Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
pmarkow:exactly. i hope there won't be another GT3RS, but i am afraid they will output at least a special edition.
That is my guess, ltd edition RS 4.2, RSR, Cup model, or similar...
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73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi
Re: 991 GT2 RS (2017) - Rumors, speculations and gossip
olli:I spoke with Walliser at COTA last weekend; he clearly conveyed no hybrid until next generation due to packaging limitations in 991 chassis.
Guest, I saw some of your related posts on RL. Do you want to share some of the questions you put to Walliser and his team at COTA last weekend and the tidbits of information gleaned there?
Here's the thread I started; most other members were too busy arguing about what their rich uncle with a 918 said or what their salesman told them
http://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-and-911r/953819-cota-road-atlanta-cleaning-ladies-etc.html
I will see Walliser again next weekend at Road Atlanta for Petit Le Mans; met him there last year for the first time.
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