Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup - Page1

Apr 28, 2005 10:57:40 PM

turbolite: Veteran; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 1012, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 26, 2004

997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

According to the Porsche website, the new gt3 is 2.2 seconds faster in Imola (approx. a 1.52 minutes round) than the old one. this is the result of stronger brakes (but no abs), 10 hp more and a sequential gearchange. Luca Riccitelli, who won in Imola said that with that great chassis he would have liked to have 100hp more in that car!
What do you guys think on the time difference ?

Next
Threads

Apr 29, 2005 6:52:27 AM

mav21386: Junior; Loc: Seattle, WA, USA; Posts: 59, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 17, 2005; Reply to: turbolite

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

WHY THE [censored] ARENT THEY GIVING IT MORE POWER?! THEY CONSTANTLY FORGET ABOUT POWER!

Next
Threads

Apr 29, 2005 9:45:35 AM

boytronic: Veteran; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 961, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 5, 2005; Reply to: mav21386

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Could it be because they have stuck with th 3.6 block in the 997 GT3 car (assuming they have, anyone?)??

Next
Threads

Apr 29, 2005 10:13:39 AM

palenimbus: Expert; Loc: Baden-Württemberg, Germany; Posts: 1824, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2004; Reply to: boytronic

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

I wonder if there is some sort of physical limit to how much horsepower they can squeeze out of a 6 cylinder...

Next
Threads

Apr 29, 2005 11:09:53 AM

Boxster Coupe GTS: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 5886, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2005; Reply to: turbolite

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Porsche 997 GT3 Cup engine spec...

+ water cooled flat six-cylinder boxer engine
+ 3,598cc (stroke 76.4mm, bore 100mm diameter)
+ max. power: 294kW (400BHP) at 7,300rpm
+ max. torque: 400Nm at 6,500rpm
+ max. rpm: 8,200rpm
+ four valves per cylinder
+ water-cooled
+ dry-sump lubrication
+ two-stage resonance intake manifold, central inlet air duct
+ electronic engine management system MS 3.1
+ sequential multi-point fuel injection
+ fuel: 98 octane ROZ, unleaded
+ race exhaust system with lambda-probe-equipped catalytic converter
+ twin-branch centre exhaust pipes

http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=92376&page=0&fpart=7&vc=1

Next
Threads

Apr 29, 2005 11:41:35 AM

Toocool: Newbie; Loc: Netherlands; Posts: 2, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2004; Reply to: palenimbus

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Actually there is a limit to how much horsepower can be produced with a given amount of displacement without turbos or compressors. The limit is caused by the fact that there is fixed amount of energy available with each explosion in the cylinders. The more displacement the bigger the bang and the higher the available energy. The only way to get more energy per second at a fixed displacement is to have more bangs per second. (Or use turbos or compressors which squeeze more fuel and air in a cylinder) So the higher the revs the more horsepower. Unfortunately revs in engines are limited by wear, effenciency. At the moment the Honda S2000 produces the most horsepower per liter displacement. It has around a 120pk/l. It produces this much horsepower by doing 8300 revs per minute. A 3,6 liter engine should be theoretically able to produce 120x3,6=432hp. Considering that larger engines absorb a larger percentage of the available energy due to more friction, cooling and so on the limit is probably somewhere is the region of 410hp. So the GT3 is pretty close to the limit. Being too close to the limit makes an engine prone to breaking. That's probably why Porsche normally stays well below the limit. They want to be reliable and fast.

Next
Threads

Apr 29, 2005 1:16:07 PM

turbolite: Veteran; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 1012, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 26, 2004; Reply to: Boxster Coupe GTS

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

400 hp are too close to the 381 hp of the 997 wls IMO. and the weight difference will not be huge, remember how the real weight of the gt3 measured by sport auto was much higher than the one declared by porsche!

Next
Threads

Apr 29, 2005 2:31:22 PM

palenimbus: Expert; Loc: Baden-Württemberg, Germany; Posts: 1824, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2004; Reply to: Toocool

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Great post toocool, I learn new things every day I read this forum

Next
Threads

Apr 29, 2005 4:12:59 PM

mav21386: Junior; Loc: Seattle, WA, USA; Posts: 59, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 17, 2005; Reply to: palenimbus

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

stupid porsche ignoring the competition again. it is not going to have enough power to keep up with a C6 Z06 or a F430CS, i am very sad indeed.

Next
Threads

Apr 29, 2005 9:36:30 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: mav21386

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Quote:
mav21386 said:
WHY THE [censored] ARENT THEY GIVING IT MORE POWER?! THEY CONSTANTLY FORGET ABOUT POWER!

Maybe you should read up on the 911 GT3 RSR racing car. Same size engine, more power = higher specific power output.

Next
Threads

Apr 30, 2005 2:15:28 AM

RR4: Senior; Loc:; Posts: 608, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2003; Reply to: fritz

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

The 996 GT3R cup car and the RSR had 435 and 445 hp respectively out o the 3.6L motor.

The limit to the motor is about 500hp.

GT3R and GTRSR both had 6 throttle control valves rather than the ONE we have in our road cars.
To get the power they have to go to that style of injection OR Direct Injection will do it.

Next
Threads

Apr 30, 2005 7:40:26 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: RR4

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Quote:
RR4 said:
The 996 GT3R cup car and the RSR had 435 and 445 hp respectively out o the 3.6L motor.

This may just have been a typo on your part, but the "GT3R" and "GT3 Cup" were and are not the same model. The Cup race car has never had more than its current output of (I think) 390hp.
911 GT3R was the initial designation (around 2001?) for what is now the 911 GT3 RSR

Quote:
RR4 said:The limit to the motor is about 500hp.

How did you arrive at this figure?

Quote:
RR4 said:GT3R and GTRSR both had 6 throttle control valves rather than the ONE we have in our road cars.
To get the power they have to go to that style of injection OR Direct Injection will do it.

I am not aware of direct injection currently being used in a noteworthy high-output racing engine.

But I haven't been keeping up-to-date on this subject either.

Next
Threads

Apr 30, 2005 7:53:52 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8235, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: fritz

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Audi was racing its R8 in Le Mans with direct injection and turbochargers. The new 2.0-FSI with Turbo in the A3 and new Golf GTI seems to be a pretty marvellous engine!

As far as I know the GT3-R models are usually equipped with air restrictors, I would also assume that the current limit on the GT3 engine with current displacement and technology should be around that number. Beyond that it should become too pricey and lacking efficiency to gain more power!

Back to the original topic - the 997 GT3 car indeed seems to have a superb suspension, hearing those comments by a professional racing driver (and bearing in mind that we are still talking about a rear-engined car

) should say something!
Regarding the demand for more power, the GT3s are STILL the fastest manufacturer's cup in the world, using more and more expensive technology just raises the price barrier to use such a car in competition - how many people are willing to pay this? In fact in some countries it becomes quite tense to run those cars in the Cup classes without focussing on the back end of the grid...
The GT3 is a magnificent car and anybody who sees and hears those cars on the track should be thrilled!

Next
Threads

May 1, 2005 7:35:52 PM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Does anybody know what size wheels are used on the 997 GT3 Cup?

-SB

Next
Threads

May 2, 2005 12:03:24 AM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: Silver Bullet

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

It's on the Porsche web site:

http://content3.us.porsche.com/prod/motorsport/sales.nsf/usaenglish/911_gt3_cup_997chassis

Next
Threads

May 2, 2005 1:12:45 AM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Of course. Duh.

Thanks.

-SB

Next
Threads

May 2, 2005 10:32:18 PM

Toocool: Newbie; Loc: Netherlands; Posts: 2, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2004; Reply to: RR4

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

The 911 GT3RSR has 455BHP at 8700rpm as you can see here GT3RSR
It gives it 455/3.6=126bhp/liter
This is achieved due to the very high rpm. These kind of numbers in a normal production car are quite difficult to achieve reliably and within in the environmental rules. Dumping more fuel in the cylinders than is necessary in a street car would result in illegal exhaust fumes. Larger figures than 125bhp/liter would be an even bigger surprise in a street car. The bhp/liter is a function of the rpm of the engine. At a specific rpm this figure is limited by the fuel. This is because an ideal mixture of fuel and air has a fixed amount of energy per liter. Race engines are build to rev a lot higher than the normal production engine. For racing wear is not a problem, but for street cars this is.

Next
Threads

May 2, 2005 11:15:19 PM

turbolite: Veteran; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 1012, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 26, 2004; Reply to: Toocool

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

guess they wont use that engine in 3.6 format, but they might increase it to 3.8. dont think they will use the 997 engine though, it would be suicidal to offer anormal 997 at 381hp with kit and a gt3 with 400.

Top
Threads

Board	Subject	Last post	Views	Replies
Porsche	SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)	5/15/24 8:44 AM art.italy	808769	1808
Porsche	Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos)	4/7/24 11:48 AM Boxster Coupe GTS	450351	565
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022	3/12/24 8:28 AM DJM48	267682	323
Porsche	The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche	1/30/24 9:18 AM RC	90919	45
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift	3/15/24 1:23 PM CGX car nut	7813	50
Porsche	The moment I've been waiting for...	2/1/24 7:01 PM Pilot	888408	1364
Porsche	992 GT3	7/23/23 7:01 PM Grant	837565	3868
Porsche	GT4RS	4/21/24 11:50 AM mcdelaug	402425	1454
Porsche	Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!	2/10/24 4:43 PM nberry	398549	1526
Others	Tesla 2 the new thread	12/13/23 2:48 PM CGX car nut	385951	2401
Porsche	Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design	7/3/23 12:30 PM Porker	372053	797
Porsche	Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour	5/12/24 6:23 PM blueflame	294493	669
Porsche	Collected my 997 GTS today	10/19/23 7:06 PM CGX car nut	268155	812
Lambo	Huracán EVO STO	7/30/23 6:59 PM mcdelaug	244758	346
Lotus	Lotus Emira	6/25/23 2:53 PM Enmanuel	239229	101
Others	Corvette C8	10/16/23 3:24 PM Enmanuel	223211	488
Others	Gordon Murray - T.50	11/22/23 10:27 AM mcdelaug	173758	387
Porsche	Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS	6/11/23 5:13 PM CGX car nut	145533	144
BMW M	2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now	12/29/23 9:04 AM RC	121900	303
Motor Sp.	2023 Formula One	12/19/23 5:38 AM Whoopsy	113710	685
Porsche	2022 992 Safari Model	3/7/24 4:22 PM Whoopsy	86399	239
AMG	Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758	2/23/24 10:03 PM blueflame	76610	297
Porsche	992 GT3 RS	3/3/24 7:22 PM Whoopsy	55624	314
Motor Sp.	Porsche 963	5/18/24 9:44 PM Wonderbar	27508	249
Ferrari	Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6)	1/21/24 4:29 PM GT-Boy	22276	103
BMW M	2022 BMW M5 CS	4/8/24 1:43 PM Ferdie	20899	140
AMG	G63 sold out	9/15/23 7:38 PM Nico997	17536	120
AMG	[2022] Mercedes-AMG SL	4/23/24 1:24 PM RC	15436	225
Porsche	Porsche Mission X Hypercar	12/3/23 8:52 AM 996FourEss	11454	63
Others	An unassuming homologation special - 205 Rallye	5/31/23 12:23 PM Enmanuel	11275	35

Crown

Forum - Thread

997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Re: 997 gt3 cup vs 996 gt3 cup

Forum

Boards