Crown

Well, compared to US dealers asking for a premium over MSRP, I would rather buy the watch!

Used to be that they would ask for a premium for GT cars and limited editions, Last week I was asked for a premium for a GTS!

I can't even understand how that's legal....

I can only imagine the ask for the GT4 RS

AS4s:

Well, compared to US dealers asking for a premium over MSRP, I would rather buy the watch!

Used to be that they would ask for a premium for GT cars and limited editions, Last week I was asked for a premium for a GTS!

I can't even understand how that's legal....

I can only imagine the ask for the GT4 RS

 

It is a seller’s market with the lack of inventory available.  As the recession gathers steam over the next six months, supply will increase and your dealer will be hunting for your business. 

Available Tires:

DUNLOP
SPORT MAXX RACE 2

MICHELIN
PILOT SPORT 4S

MICHELIN
PILOT SPORT CUP 2

BiTurbo:

Gauss:

Many german customers are complaining because their Porsche centers are obliging them to buy the silly watch if they want the GT4 RS.

First, they charge ridiculous prices and now they are giving out orders if you plan to buy their GT car ?

Unbelievable, how greedy have they become ?

I bet the 992 GT3 RS order will require the purchase of their eBike Sport + Cross
 

Don't worry, the RS will get the same treatment.

2018 White 911 GT3

They can't charge more than sticker price in some markets, so they have to find creative new ways to extract more money for desirable models.

22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

not sure about prettier, it's still a Cayman at the end of the day and a very busy one. The GT3 is a lot more refined in terms of its looks.  But then again that's all subjective.... My GT3 ended up costing 200k exactly with all the goodies...I'm not sure I would trade that in for this GT4 RS at that price.  However I did spec one at around 170 k, without Weissac pack, and I would for sure make the switch with those prices if I could get one.  Dealer said impossible to get one from him, even if I've just purchased a GT3, it's crazy....

Those who wait will be rewarded.

The purpose of life is to enjoy the moment.

Moser:

not sure about prettier, it's still a Cayman at the end of the day and a very busy one. The GT3 is a lot more refined in terms of its looks.  But then again that's all subjective...

Yes, very subjective. I think the GT4 RS looks much more purposeful and aggressive than the bloated 992 GT3 with its Wallace and Gromit plastic mouth. 

2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White

Moser:

not sure about prettier, it's still a Cayman at the end of the day and a very busy one. The GT3 is a lot more refined in terms of its looks.  But then again that's all subjective.... My GT3 ended up costing 200k exactly with all the goodies...I'm not sure I would trade that in for this GT4 RS at that price.  However I did spec one at around 170 k, without Weissac pack, and I would for sure make the switch with those prices if I could get one.  Dealer said impossible to get one from him, even if I've just purchased a GT3, it's crazy....

AP said it is not a limited production model and will continue until 2025 when the Cayman switches to an EV platform.  It will still be almost impossible to obtain. 

Got mine 

 964 Carrera 4 /  997.2 C2S -20mm /  991.2 GT3 RS stolen 

Gnil:

Got mine 

Congrats 

22 GT3 Manual, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 18 GT3 Manual, 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Gnil:

Got mine 

Reading this brings a smile to my face. 

Gnil:

Got mine 

Awesome!  Congrats!

Gnil:

Got mine 

Ahhhh. cool!

Alcantara dash or not? and the cage? steel or titanium? I am sure for the dash and the mag wheels.

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual

Cayenne GTS 2014

the-missile:

Gnil:

Got mine 

Ahhhh. cool!

Alcantara dash or not? and the cage? steel or titanium? I am sure for the dash and the mag wheels.

 

So you're going all in !!   I have some time to decide final specs .... for the moment could be either or 

--

 964 Carrera 4 /  997.2 C2S -20mm /  991.2 GT3 RS stolen 

Wow Eric! A worthy successor to the 3 RS, congrats! That should ease the pain a bit.

Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys

Congrats Eric! 

Porsche must have a huge profit margin on the GT4RS. I expect only a handful of these cars will be sold without the top of the range wheels and the Weissach Paket adding another 30.000 EUR to the already significant 140.000 EUR.

For sure, the RS moniker and the mid-engine configuration on the Cayman will attract some potential GT3 buyers even at this high price.

For the same or similar money the GT3 offers more, like the bespoke racing front suspension, the more sophisticated multi-link rear suspension instead of the Cayman McPhersons , R.W.Steering, advanced high-tech axle differential instead of the mechanical one in the Cayman, wider wheels and tyres. The weight of the two cars is practically the same.

Some people comment on the looks of the 911 and its dimensions. If you look at the figures the Cayman is not significantly smaller. IMO notwithstanding some not so successful styling details on the GT3, the 911 has nice flowing lines whereas the GT4RS looks to me a very busy design with too many inlets and appendages.

Nevertheless my compliments to the GT Division for having the confidence first to price a Cayman at close to 180.000 EUR and second to allow a Cayman performance-wise to come so close to the GT3.

--

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

Gnil:

the-missile:

Gnil:

Got mine 

Ahhhh. cool!

Alcantara dash or not? and the cage? steel or titanium? I am sure for the dash and the mag wheels.

 

So you're going all in !!   I have some time to decide final specs .... for the moment could be either or 

--

 

 964 Carrera 4 /  997.2 C2S -20mm /  991.2 GT3 RS stolen 

 

Congrats.

Joost:

Wow Eric! A worthy successor to the 3 RS, congrats! That should ease the pain a bit.

Congrats! Great choice. A step up the ladder from the GT3 RS 

2016 Porsche 981 GT4 | Racing Yellow
2018 Audi S6 Avant | Ibis White

reginos:

Porsche must have a huge profit margin on the GT4RS. I expect only a handful of these cars will be sold without the top of the range wheels and the Weissach Paket adding another 30.000 EUR to the already significant 140.000 EUR.

For sure, the RS moniker and the mid-engine configuration on the Cayman will attract some potential GT3 buyers even at this high price.

For the same or similar money the GT3 offers more, like the bespoke racing front suspension, the more sophisticated multi-link rear suspension instead of the Cayman McPhersons , R.W.Steering, advanced high-tech axle differential instead of the mechanical one in the Cayman, wider wheels and tyres. The weight of the two cars is practically the same.

Some people comment on the looks of the 911 and its dimensions. If you look at the figures the Cayman is not significantly smaller. IMO notwithstanding some not so successful styling details on the GT3, the 911 has nice flowing lines whereas the GT4RS looks to me a very busy design with too many inlets and appendages.

Nevertheless my compliments to the GT Division for having the confidence first to price a Cayman at close to 180.000 EUR and second to allow a Cayman performance-wise to come so close to the GT3.

--

 

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

 

However, unlike the 992.2 GT3, the replacement for the 718 Cayman is an EV.  This is the last of the breed.  

Grant:

They can't charge more than sticker price in some markets, so they have to find creative new ways to extract more money for desirable models.

Really?  You meant to say that - In some places you can’t ‘build a relationship’?

CGX car nut:

reginos:

Porsche must have a huge profit margin on the GT4RS. I expect only a handful of these cars will be sold without the top of the range wheels and the Weissach Paket adding another 30.000 EUR to the already significant 140.000 EUR.

For sure, the RS moniker and the mid-engine configuration on the Cayman will attract some potential GT3 buyers even at this high price.

For the same or similar money the GT3 offers more, like the bespoke racing front suspension, the more sophisticated multi-link rear suspension instead of the Cayman McPhersons , R.W.Steering, advanced high-tech axle differential instead of the mechanical one in the Cayman, wider wheels and tyres. The weight of the two cars is practically the same.

Some people comment on the looks of the 911 and its dimensions. If you look at the figures the Cayman is not significantly smaller. IMO notwithstanding some not so successful styling details on the GT3, the 911 has nice flowing lines whereas the GT4RS looks to me a very busy design with too many inlets and appendages.

Nevertheless my compliments to the GT Division for having the confidence first to price a Cayman at close to 180.000 EUR and second to allow a Cayman performance-wise to come so close to the GT3.

--

 

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

 

However, unlike the 992.2 GT3, the replacement for the 718 Cayman is an EV.  This is the last of the breed.  

This is the speculation now. But Porsche are known to build up such rumours and then to revert. Like the decision to offer the 718 as 4 cylinder turbo only. Then 6 cylinder models started to appear and the range culminated with a RS version.

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

reginos:

CGX car nut:

reginos:

Porsche must have a huge profit margin on the GT4RS. I expect only a handful of these cars will be sold without the top of the range wheels and the Weissach Paket adding another 30.000 EUR to the already significant 140.000 EUR.

For sure, the RS moniker and the mid-engine configuration on the Cayman will attract some potential GT3 buyers even at this high price.

For the same or similar money the GT3 offers more, like the bespoke racing front suspension, the more sophisticated multi-link rear suspension instead of the Cayman McPhersons , R.W.Steering, advanced high-tech axle differential instead of the mechanical one in the Cayman, wider wheels and tyres. The weight of the two cars is practically the same.

Some people comment on the looks of the 911 and its dimensions. If you look at the figures the Cayman is not significantly smaller. IMO notwithstanding some not so successful styling details on the GT3, the 911 has nice flowing lines whereas the GT4RS looks to me a very busy design with too many inlets and appendages.

Nevertheless my compliments to the GT Division for having the confidence first to price a Cayman at close to 180.000 EUR and second to allow a Cayman performance-wise to come so close to the GT3.

--

 

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

 

However, unlike the 992.2 GT3, the replacement for the 718 Cayman is an EV.  This is the last of the breed.  

This is the speculation now. But Porsche are known to build up such rumours and then to revert. Like the decision to offer the 718 as 4 cylinder turbo only. Then 6 cylinder models started to appear and the range culminated with a RS version.

EV with high probability since the Cayman/Boxster twins sell well in China.  Why would Porsche develop two platforms for an ever shrinking category for both EV and ICE?  By the time the EV arrives in 2025, the 718 platform will be a decade old and less competitive.  

CGX car nut:

reginos:

CGX car nut:

reginos:

Porsche must have a huge profit margin on the GT4RS. I expect only a handful of these cars will be sold without the top of the range wheels and the Weissach Paket adding another 30.000 EUR to the already significant 140.000 EUR.

For sure, the RS moniker and the mid-engine configuration on the Cayman will attract some potential GT3 buyers even at this high price.

For the same or similar money the GT3 offers more, like the bespoke racing front suspension, the more sophisticated multi-link rear suspension instead of the Cayman McPhersons , R.W.Steering, advanced high-tech axle differential instead of the mechanical one in the Cayman, wider wheels and tyres. The weight of the two cars is practically the same.

Some people comment on the looks of the 911 and its dimensions. If you look at the figures the Cayman is not significantly smaller. IMO notwithstanding some not so successful styling details on the GT3, the 911 has nice flowing lines whereas the GT4RS looks to me a very busy design with too many inlets and appendages.

Nevertheless my compliments to the GT Division for having the confidence first to price a Cayman at close to 180.000 EUR and second to allow a Cayman performance-wise to come so close to the GT3.

--

 

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

 

However, unlike the 992.2 GT3, the replacement for the 718 Cayman is an EV.  This is the last of the breed.  

This is the speculation now. But Porsche are known to build up such rumours and then to revert. Like the decision to offer the 718 as 4 cylinder turbo only. Then 6 cylinder models started to appear and the range culminated with a RS version.

EV with high probability since the Cayman/Boxster twins sell well in China.  Why would Porsche develop two platforms for an ever shrinking category for both EV and ICE?  By the time the EV arrives in 2025, the 718 platform will be a decade old and less competitive.  

Could there be a EV with mid-engined or rear-engined dynamics and feel? I don't know. But if not, Porsche will totally damage the attractiveness of their sportscars and probably their entire business. Porsche will at least stick to hybrid sportscars for as long as they can. They have also been pursuing biofuel solutions already.

The abolition of ICE seems imminent and irreversible now but world politics and economics are volatile and unpredictable and probably ICE's demise might be delayed or exemptions will be granted.

--

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

Automakers are complying with the regulators versus building product that the market and consumers want. This is unbridled socialism but the die has been cast and the business are making the product and process decisions to exist within a new world order.  

Returning to your comments on dynamics, battery packs can simulate the weight distribution of a rear or mid-engined car; however, a 50-50 weight distribution ensures that the battery pack design is optimized in terms of size, which determines range, and more importantly, performance.  

The new world order regarding the complete electrification of private transport in the next 15-20 years is not set in stone IMO.

There are many variables that could delay the domination of the EV.

The world consensus is not so strong on matters of the climate which was the origin of the EV concept. Governments could be swayed by workers' unions, industry lobbies etc. and the realty of the economic repercussions on their national industries. Many politicians are paying lip service to matters of ecology but in the end their horizon is the economic growth and employment  until the next elections.

The advent of EVs will be a great equalizer for the automobile industry. Things like brand names and heritage will be reversed,  production will be redistributed among producers and jobs will be lost in traditional car producing countries. For example take the German car industry which have built their brands over the last 70 to 100 years and they employ a significant part of the working force. They will have to compete against the Teslas of this world and some Chinese or Indian newcomers and they will lose revenues both corporate and national. Governments and workers might realize that the push by the Green parties towards electric personal transport is really a shot in their own foot. I wouldn't be surprised if soon workers start to demonstrate in favour of keeping ICEs for longer when the realize the damage done.

Also there are numerous fundamental issues that are not so obvious now that EVs account for 1% of all vehicles. On a large scale of electrification parameters like mining for batteries, battery disposal/recycling, multiplication of the electricity production capacity (and the consequent pollution bearing in mind that certain countries are scared of nuclear energy) in order to cater for the billions of EVs, will definitely complicate and delay matters.

The goal of certain countries to ban petrol and diesel cars in this decade or even the COP26 goal of 2040 will prove unattainable.

--

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

according to Preuninger it's the best sounding so far from inside - which I truly believe given the induction is so close ! 

Leawood911:

Grant:

They can't charge more than sticker price in some markets, so they have to find creative new ways to extract more money for desirable models.

Really?  You meant to say that - In some places you can’t ‘build a relationship’?

In most of the world there is no ADM. It's just a weird thing Americans do.

Building a relationship doesn't means payinng ADMs. You just keep buying and selling cars with them. Buy one, trade it in to them, buy another, trade it in. you scratch his back he scratches yours. 

just doing service at one dealership but refuse to buy cars from them is not helping them or building a relationship. You aren't helping their sales number. Which they need in order to get allocations. By helping them get allocations it just means more chances to get cars as they will get more. 

You go into your favourite restaurant, everyone knows your name and you know everyone and you get extra bread or they have fresh whatever and offers to you. You will not get that kind of service at a place you only had one dinner 10-15 years ago. You could argue to them that you come in and use their bathroom all the time, you think that's gonna bring you better service/offerings?

Be realistic Mike.

reginos:

Porsche must have a huge profit margin on the GT4RS. I expect only a handful of these cars will be sold without the top of the range wheels and the Weissach Paket adding another 30.000 EUR to the already significant 140.000 EUR.

For sure, the RS moniker and the mid-engine configuration on the Cayman will attract some potential GT3 buyers even at this high price.

For the same or similar money the GT3 offers more, like the bespoke racing front suspension, the more sophisticated multi-link rear suspension instead of the Cayman McPhersons , R.W.Steering, advanced high-tech axle differential instead of the mechanical one in the Cayman, wider wheels and tyres. The weight of the two cars is practically the same.

Some people comment on the looks of the 911 and its dimensions. If you look at the figures the Cayman is not significantly smaller. IMO notwithstanding some not so successful styling details on the GT3, the 911 has nice flowing lines whereas the GT4RS looks to me a very busy design with too many inlets and appendages.

Nevertheless my compliments to the GT Division for having the confidence first to price a Cayman at close to 180.000 EUR and second to allow a Cayman performance-wise to come so close to the GT3.

--

 

"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"

 

I am taking the Weissach pack but I am not takin the magnesium wheels. Too much hassle. Have two of those before, on the 918 and GT2RS. You have NO IDEA how careful I have to be with curbs and whatnots 

Plus, I like the edgier Aluminum wheel design better, the magnesium wheels pretty much is the same since the 918 days.

One problem with picking the 992 GT3, it's not the range topper and the better GT3RS is coming, while the GT4RS is the range topper for the 718 range. 

But pricing are always like this, you full load a 4S whatever you are up there with a GTS, loading up a GTS and you are in turbo territory, adding options to a turbo means a turbo S make more sense 

718 range has it's own appeal, while it is the 'entry level' car for Porsche, it is mid engine and different feelings with the rear engine on the 911 range. 

I have commented before, while the ultimate dimensions of a 992 isn't that much bigger than a 991 and for that matters the 718 which is on the same platform, the sightline on judging and placing the car is different and hence making the car seems bigger than it really is.

RS cars are always busier than non-RS, they aren't designed for looks, they are designed with function in mind first, the GT4 already have cleaner lines than the GT4RS, just like how a GT3 has cleaner lines than a GT3RS.