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    Mar 31, 2005 2:18:45 PM

    W8MM
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    W8MM
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    Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    OK, ... Now I'm really embarrassed

    The dealer just called me to ask about my insistence that they move the rear sway-bar setting to the middle hole from the stiff hole, as I wanted.

    They said it was already set to the middle hole!

    I answered that it sure looked like it had two holes showing toward the tip of the bar end. He said, "Yeah. It can look that way if you take a casual peek under the CF panel. But, when you get the CF panel off, it's really easy to see that it's already set to the middle hole. Is that where you want us to leave it?" Of course I do!

    Oh boy, ... I feel so dumb now.

    Then I thought about the mild "skittishness" that I reported in another post and then was embarrassed to remember that the owner's manual mentioned that the tires would not be correctly responsive until a few hundred miles had been traveled.

    I've only been track driving since the 1970s

    One would have thought that I might have remembered the cautions I had laid on other people about "green tire" surprises over those many years as an instructor. But, NO!

    How many miles do my CGT tires have?

    I'm embarrassed to show the odometer evidence below. I'll bet that the car behaves better when I get double the miles that are now showing

    I think I'll be a bit more selective when I make certain statements from now on. Sorry for the misinformation.

    Mea culpa.

    Mar 31, 2005 3:01:32 PM

    Steve R
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    I wouldnt think it matters a bit how many mistakes you make, its just part of the fun of learning about your new car... and what a car!!

    Mar 31, 2005 3:18:03 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    OK, ... Now I'm really embarrassed

    The dealer just called me to ask about my insistence that they move the rear sway-bar setting to the middle hole from the stiff hole, as I wanted.

    They said it was already set to the middle hole!

    I answered that it sure looked like it had two holes showing toward the tip of the bar end. He said, "Yeah. It can look that way if you take a casual peek under the CF panel. But, when you get the CF panel off, it's really easy to see that it's already set to the middle hole. Is that where you want us to leave it?" Of course I do!

    Oh boy, ... I feel so dumb now.

    Then I thought about the mild "skittishness" that I reported in another post and then was embarrassed to remember that the owner's manual mentioned that the tires would not be correctly responsive until a few hundred miles had been traveled.

    I've only been track driving since the 1970s

    One would have thought that I might have remembered the cautions I had laid on other people about "green tire" surprises over those many years as an instructor. But, NO!

    How many miles do my CGT tires have?

    I'm embarrassed to show the odometer evidence below. I'll bet that the car behaves better when I get double the miles that are now showing

    I think I'll be a bit more selective when I make certain statements from now on. Sorry for the misinformation.

    Mea culpa.



    Mike I have been subtly indicating that to you for over a year!

    Regardless of your faux pas and though I do not personally know you, based on your driving experience I would say that you and your CGT are a match made in heaven.

    Enjoy it in good health as I am sure you will.

    Mar 31, 2005 3:25:44 PM

    ben, lj
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    fwiw, instead of looking re: the sway, it's easier to just put your hand on the nut (no funny jokes guys) and run your fingers to either side of it to feel the holes than it is to contort yourself for a visual.

    yep, all ZR rates tires are going to need some scrubbing before giving you any confidence. these particular tires also need to be warmed up pretty good each time - though if it's 101 degress there in ohio...

    Mar 31, 2005 3:48:33 PM

    MAVERICK Offline
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    One would have thought that I might have remembered the cautions I had laid on other people



    Though you did not remember your own advice during the drive, you remembered post-drive -- a sign of a good instructor and a call for a toast:

    Cheers!

    Mar 31, 2005 4:54:04 PM

    jecey
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    ...
    Then I thought about the mild "skittishness" that I reported in another post and then was embarrassed to remember that the owner's manual mentioned that the tires would not be correctly responsive until a few hundred miles had been traveled.

    ...



    b.s. !!!
    the tires give their maximum performance when they are new, and I would say, when they are "fresh".
    When I use my race bike, before the race, i put new tires and that give the maximum of the performance

    Mar 31, 2005 5:25:55 PM

    FutchM
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    Reply to: jecey

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Quote:
    jecey said:
    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    ...
    Then I thought about the mild "skittishness" that I reported in another post and then was embarrassed to remember that the owner's manual mentioned that the tires would not be correctly responsive until a few hundred miles had been traveled.

    ...



    b.s. !!!
    the tires give their maximum performance when they are new, and I would say, when they are "fresh".
    When I use my race bike, before the race, i put new tires and that give the maximum of the performance



    That is not true Jecey, tyres NEED to be run in.
    Along with brakes they are the most important elements of a car that need to be run in.
    AT LEAST a few hundred kilometers.

    Mar 31, 2005 5:45:36 PM

    MAVERICK Offline
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    Reply to: jecey

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Quote:
    jecey said:
    When I use my race bike, before the race, i put new tires and that give the maximum of the performance



    jecey,

    What kind of tires do you use when racing? Are they slicks or R-compound tires?

    Mar 31, 2005 6:32:43 PM

    W8MM
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    W8MM
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Mike I have been subtly indicating that to you for over a year!



    Subtle?

    Nick, is that really you?

    Mar 31, 2005 7:48:39 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Mike, it just goes on to show how a car like that can make one forget about braking in the tires and such... pedal to the metal!

    Hoping to hear more impressions and updates ... lets all hope for good weather over Ohio!

    Mar 31, 2005 7:49:21 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: jecey

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Quote:
    jecey said:
    the tires give their maximum performance when they are new, and I would say, when they are "fresh".
    When I use my race bike, before the race, i put new tires and that give the maximum of the performance



    Jecey, you are talking about slick or semi-slicks (supercorsas and such) which start working inmedicately after the first heat cicle, the extreme is clasification tires which only last a few laps, but work inmediately as soon as they are up to temp in a lap or so.

    But "street" tires need to scrub off the outer layer to really grip, I have had my scares with new tires upon braking. At least 300km minimun are needed for adequate performance and even afterwards they have room to improve and will still get better and better until 1000-2000km when perfromance becomes stationary until thread wear decline. This depends also greatly on the tire brand/model also.

    And especially streetcar tires more so than streetbike tires since they are harder compound, takes longer to wear generally than a bike's street tires.

    Mar 31, 2005 8:10:32 PM

    RCA
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Mike, you should INDEED be ashamed. Only 104 mls? If this baby would have been mine, I would have 1040 mls by now.
    Thanks for your feedback and yes, you're definetely right: the tires aren't "ready" yet.

    Mar 31, 2005 9:47:49 PM

    JimFlat6
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    With replacement tires, you should try to have them heat cylced before they are installed. In the US, Tire Rack will do that for you before shipment.

    Saves having to break them in and other problems, like
    those @^&%@@&* Frggn Potenzas that suffer from compound
    shifts when they are heated up too many times too soon
    and become as hard as tracttor tires.

    Mar 31, 2005 10:47:39 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    With replacement tires, you should try to have them heat cylced before they are installed. In the US, Tire Rack will do that for you before shipment.



    Jim - I think with street tires that heat cylcing would be unnecessary. The main thing is to wear off the mold-release agent on the tread which is best achieved with vigorous but careful driving for a few hundred miles.

    Apr 1, 2005 1:52:21 AM

    mason
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    I think that the heat wave in Ohio ( late march a@101 f, whew. ) may have something to do with your "forgetfullness".

    Actually ,I believe this is just a simple case of new car giddiness, and I am glad to report that it SHOULD be normal for all CGT owners , it may even pass after a few months....

    Enjoy!!

    Apr 1, 2005 3:01:45 AM

    W8MM
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    W8MM
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    Reply to: mason

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Quote:
    mason said:
    I think that the heat wave in Ohio ( late march @101 f, whew. ) may have something to do with your "forgetfullness".




    It's amazing what a little front-radiator heat-soak will do on an 80F day for the outside air temp sensor, isn't it?

    Apr 1, 2005 3:11:13 AM

    ben, lj
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Quote:
    W8MM said:
    Quote:
    mason said:
    I think that the heat wave in Ohio ( late march @101 f, whew. ) may have something to do with your "forgetfullness".




    It's amazing what a little front-radiator heat-soak will do on an 80F day for the outside air temp sensor, isn't it?



    fwiw, les has weighed in on his purchase on both rennlist and 6speed. he put 200 miles on it today :-)

    Apr 1, 2005 3:25:15 AM

    JimFlat6
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    With replacement tires, you should try to have them heat cylced before they are installed. In the US, Tire Rack will do that for you before shipment.



    Jim - I think with street tires that heat cylcing would be unnecessary. The main thing is to wear off the mold-release agent on the tread which is best achieved with vigorous but careful driving for a few hundred miles.



    Heat Cycling is the way to go my friend. Not only are they ready to use sooner, they seem to last a bit longer, besides I cant wait the couple hundred miles!!!

    Apr 1, 2005 7:04:07 AM

    jecey
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    I use Pirelli Supercorsa's ... DOT version (mandatory by the racing rules) ... homologated for road use. This is a racing compound, similar to the Pirelli Rosso Corsa for cars.
    With road tires, sure you need a couple of km to remove the dirty part, the thiny outter layer (what they used in the past was parafine, today is different product) ... but not more than 100 km. Road tires are less sensitive to heat cycles to my opinion. With race compound, you can accept between 5 and 10 heat cycles, but no more (I mean, a real heat cycle). With a road tire, much more before feeling any degradation.
    The only concern I have is with Michelin, car or bike, road or race compounds tires ... I hate these compounds because they really need to have a good temperature, and heated so much to give the max. potential.
    Did you check the pressure ?

    Apr 1, 2005 7:20:51 AM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Carlos from Spain
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    Reply to: jecey

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Quote:
    jecey said:
    I use Pirelli Supercorsa's ... DOT version (mandatory by the racing rules) ... homologated for road use. This is a racing compound, similar to the Pirelli Rosso Corsa for cars.



    Hey Jecey, thats what I'm using on my streetbike very grippy but need high temperature to work.

    Apr 1, 2005 11:08:06 AM

    jyiu
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Mike, it just goes on to show how a car like that can make one forget about braking in the tires and such... pedal to the metal!



    Probably the reason why so many Porsche are crashed on the first day of ownership.

    Apr 1, 2005 4:38:55 PM

    ben, lj
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    Reply to: jyiu

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Quote:
    jyiu said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Mike, it just goes on to show how a car like that can make one forget about braking in the tires and such... pedal to the metal!



    Probably the reason why so many Porsche are crashed on the first day of ownership.



    fwiw, the CGT can be very challenging on cold tires. new tires are even worse than cold ones! so, it doesn't surprise me people smack em up early. i wouldn't be surprised if some of the accidents have not only been on new tires, but cold ones as well.

    btw, the CGT tires have a much softer compound on the outer 1/3 (more akin to a corsa or even R compound) than do the rest of the tire in specific or Michelin PSs in general.

    Apr 1, 2005 4:55:21 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: ben, lj

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Walter Rohrl claimed around 10,000km (6k miles) for the tires on the CGT, sounds way too much but would be interesting to see if true...

    Apr 1, 2005 5:34:58 PM

    ben, lj
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Walter Rohrl claimed around 10,000km (6k miles) for the tires on the CGT, sounds way too much but would be interesting to see if true...



    i have 2100 and am about to order new ones :-)

    Apr 1, 2005 5:38:14 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: ben, lj

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    2100? I wonder what use did Rohrl expect the owners would give to the CGT for the tires to last that long then

    Apr 1, 2005 5:41:50 PM

    ben, lj
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    2100? I wonder what use did Rohrl expect the owners would give to the CGT for the tires to last that long then



    well in truth, the fronts could probably go another thousand or two and i could probably stretch the rears another 500 to 1000. but they're not much more expensive than 996TT tires so i figure i might as well do it sooner than later. my suspicion is they will last considerably longer (ie: easily 6k miles) for most CGT owners.

    Apr 1, 2005 6:18:37 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: ben, lj

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    6k miles then is impressive for such a car, no? at least exceeds my expectations, I'll get about 9k at the most from my PS2's and its a 300HP 996 carrera, and AWD!

    Apr 1, 2005 6:22:35 PM

    ben, lj
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    6k miles then is impressive for such a car, no? at least exceeds my expectations, I'll get about 9k at the most from my PS2's and its a 300HP 996 carrera, and AWD!



    i don't know about "impressive", but more than acceptable would be my term. also, i think if they are driven like a normal car, they'll go much longer than 6k. i'm probably not normal as i was on my fourth full set of tires on my 16k mile 996 when i sold it.

    Apr 1, 2005 7:23:44 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    With replacement tires, you should try to have them heat cylced before they are installed. In the US, Tire Rack will do that for you before shipment.



    Jim - I think with street tires that heat cylcing would be unnecessary. The main thing is to wear off the mold-release agent on the tread which is best achieved with vigorous but careful driving for a few hundred miles.



    Heat Cycling is the way to go my friend. Not only are they ready to use sooner, they seem to last a bit longer, besides I cant wait the couple hundred miles!!!



    Hmmm, never tried it with street tires. With MPSC's I found it made no discernable difference either. What tires did you use when it made a nice improvement. I'm willing to learn

    Apr 1, 2005 9:27:06 PM

    ADias
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: Embarrassment of Pre-Conceived Notions -- CGT

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Walter Rohrl claimed around 10,000km (6k miles) for the tires on the CGT, sounds way too much but would be interesting to see if true...



    It does not surprise me as Rorhl is a very smooth driver. He probably saves on break pads too. He is not a "binary" full on/full off throttle/break pedal pusher. A smooth driver breaks less, slides less, wears less, and... gets there first w/ far less splash. The wannabee pilot is typically hard driven, breaks hard, wears tires, makes more noise, and, at the end arrives to the finish line behind.
     
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