Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive?? - Page1

Mar 30, 2005 9:46:30 PM

997S4KEN: Junior; Loc: Ventura, CA; Posts: 100, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 29, 2005

997S Toooo Hard to drive??

Im new here and have learned a great deal from your posts. Besides the numerous threads that make the 997 look like a stinker, a twitchy performer, and a shakey car. Ive decided to say f*** all of them and their noise and plunk down my nickle on a new 997S. Itll be a late 06 production car. Anyways my only long term sports car has been my 350Z. I dont mean to compare, but how does it compare to the Z? How does the car handle in high speed straight line performance. In the twisties how does she hold. What can I do now till then to better prepare myself for the experience of a lifetime. I am a good driver but no way a track or autocross star like many of you that I have seen first hand. To be honest Im a little nervous about getting her. I was all gung ho at first, but am questioning wether or not Ill be able to really know and appreciate this car for what it is. The car will be an almost daily driver, and will not see any autocross or road events. All of your knowledge and wisdom is greatly appreciated.

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Mar 30, 2005 9:56:40 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: 997S4KEN

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

Not many of us know how to drive the car. The car is not easy to drive. You have to learn how to drive it. The Boxster is easy car to drive. By "drive" I mean take car to limits or near limits without messing up; you'd needa track to do that. Uunless you drive like an *******, daily street driving is no problem. Definitely take a Diver Ed class at local Porsche club. They show you how to treat the car on the track.

BTW, most of us just buy the car because we love having the real thing. When you think about it there's no sense having this car, or a few others like it, in the USA with the 55 mph limits.

Just fun owning it, crusing in it and maybe joining and meeting people at Porsche club etc.

Between eligibility periods for speeding tickets, it's like any other nice car 85% of the time.

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Mar 30, 2005 10:02:15 PM

BD 997: Veteran; Loc: Boston, MA USA; Posts: 833, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 16, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

no easy.

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Mar 30, 2005 10:09:37 PM

Dubliner: Junior; Loc: NY, USA; Posts: 122, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 9, 2004; Reply to: BD 997

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

Yes, it's easy to enjoy. Have no fear. But will you do 150mph on the Col de Tende ? No.

I'd disagree a little with MMD - even at 55mph or 60 mph I can have a great time on the country roads in upstate NY - little or no other traffic, twisting roads, etc. I'd wager that I can have as much or more fun there than doing 180 on an autobahn.

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Mar 30, 2005 10:16:48 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21156, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: MMD

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

I don't think its any harder than any similarly performing sportcars in its class (we are talking about a sub 8min ring car here), it just takes a little getting used to its particular 911 character to get the most out of it. And you will love it for that.

And you shouldn't worry at all, its puppy when driven normally with tremendous active safety, feedback and grip. There are no tricky r-compound street tires, no sudden power deliveries, no lack of electronic handling systems, great brakes, etc. So you give yourself some time to aclimate to it and you will be pushing it in the hills in no time

But if it really worries you, the absoulte best thing you can do, is to attend just one PDE with 911's and you whole view will change in just a wekeend.

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Mar 30, 2005 10:44:45 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Dubliner

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

Quote:
Dubliner said:
Yes, it's easy to enjoy. Have no fear. But will you do 150mph on the Col de Tende ? No.

I'd disagree a little with MMD - even at 55mph or 60 mph I can have a great time on the country roads in upstate NY - little or no other traffic, twisting roads, etc. I'd wager that I can have as much or more fun there than doing 180 on an autobahn.

I stand corrected, and gladly so (didn't proofread what I typed well enough). Technically it's definitely overkill for the USA but, driving sensibly and somewhat within legal limits, you can never have too much fun with the car.

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Mar 30, 2005 11:03:58 PM

997S4KEN: Junior; Loc: Ventura, CA; Posts: 100, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 29, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

Thanks for your feedback. I feel more confident than ever that Im making the right move.

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Mar 31, 2005 12:10:57 AM

nicholas j: Senior; Loc: Upstate New York , United States; Posts: 646, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: Dubliner

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

I'm an upstate New Yorker myself and I agree.The back roads are great, although I'm still driving an '01 M3 while awaining delivery.

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Mar 31, 2005 12:34:41 AM

Trundle_GT3: Veteran; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 1016, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 30, 2003; Reply to: nicholas j

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

Do yourself a favor and sign up for a 2 day class at PDE (Porsche Driving Experience. You will NOT regret doing so!
Check ot thir offerings here:
PORSCHE DRIVING EXPERIENCE

View a hotlap at PDE here:
PDE Hotlap

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Mar 31, 2005 1:38:27 AM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: Trundle_GT3

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

You received good advice already, but you should go for a test drive or two. You know your experience w/ the Z and even on a short drive you will be able to compare. Tell your salesman that you need to take the car over a bit of twisty road on a calm day, and you'll see.

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Mar 31, 2005 2:47:47 AM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Trundle_GT3

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

Quote:
Trundle997S said:
Do yourself a favor and sign up for a 2 day class at PDE (Porsche Driving Experience. You will NOT regret doing so!
Check ot thir offerings here:
PORSCHE DRIVING EXPERIENCE

agreed. RThat or PCA driver's ed locally, It took me along time to make the call (to Driver Ed), I kicked myself for putting it off. Porsche Driving Experience would probably be 10 times better.

View a hotlap at PDE here:
PDE Hotlap

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Mar 31, 2005 5:56:18 AM

joeacc: Newbie; Loc: Tacoma, WA; Posts: 12, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 29, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

Well I just came out of G35 coupe, and let me tell you there is no comparison at any speed. The 997S gives a feeling of complete confidence when driving fast. You won't be disappointed.

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Mar 31, 2005 7:37:43 AM

Leong: Co-Pilot; Loc: Auckland, NZ; Posts: 284, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 24, 2004; Reply to: Trundle_GT3

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

Quote:
Trundle997S said:
Do yourself a favor and sign up for a 2 day class at PDE (Porsche Driving Experience. You will NOT regret doing so!
Check ot thir offerings here:
PORSCHE DRIVING EXPERIENCE

View a hotlap at PDE here:
PDE Hotlap

Thanks for the links. Must do this sometime... soon

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Mar 31, 2005 8:50:25 AM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: Leong

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

you will enjoy driving from 20 km to 200 km it is an inspiring car,dont worry about the S power.
I took me base on 6th february,now i m used to it,drive it to the limits in the twisty road we have here, and i m anticipating a power upgrade,already.
The car helps you familiarize with it.
Watch out,though,and dont get overconfident,if your driving skills do not allow it.At high speeds, rules of phycics CANT be beaten by electronics,and quite often at high speeds mistakes are not forbitten,in any car.

Have a nice wait, and welcome

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Mar 31, 2005 8:53:21 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59607, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: 997S4KEN

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

Maybe I should put it this way: the 997 Carrera S is easy to drive but not easy to drive very fast and/or at the limit, especially when you turn sport chrono on and/or turn off PSM (Porsche ESP) completely.
In my opinion, the 996 was somehow easier to drive for 911 "beginners" because the 997 steering and especially the 19'' wheels show a pretty "sensitive" steering behaviour. This is a huge advantage for experienced drivers because you can use this "razor sharp" steering behaviour to make some very precise turns but for beginners, this steering behaviour may pose a risk of steering in too much, resulting in odd results and even dangerous situations.

BUT the good news is: people can learn. When I sold my M3 E36 and went for a 993 instead without(!) a testdrive, I was almost crying. Why? Because the 993 felt completely different, the steering, the gearbox, everything...so heavy, so direct. I started to blame the people who suggested to get a 911 for the ultimate drive feel and I was so disappointed. After I started to learn how to drive the 993, I was the happiest person on earth. This doesn't mean you have to take special driving courses, just try to get a feeling for the 997 in the beginning and don't push it too hard for the first days/weeks. There are two things you have to get used to: the steering and the rear which can show some pretty nasty oversteer when the PSM is turned off and/or sport chrono activated. However, this oversteer can be controlled very easy if you get a feeling for the car.

The 997 Carrera S is not a car difficult to drive but if you really really want to be fast in it (not straight line), you have to learn how to "tame" it's rear engine behaviour and the new steering feel.

What you get is a car with one of the sportiest drive feel and drive behaviour in the world and some people seem to really get addicted to the 911.

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Mar 31, 2005 1:57:29 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8235, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: 997S4KEN

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

Check out this fabulous report about the 997S in this mag (issue #2):

http://www.windingroad.com

In fact the car is, in my eyes, quite easy to drive if you compare it to its predecessors. The ESP system, which comes std. and works very unobstrusive, should catch you before going of.

Anyways, it's a serious machine!

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Mar 31, 2005 2:59:25 PM

jboyko: Co-Pilot; Loc: NEWARK, NJ; Posts: 168, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 5, 2004; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

The car is hard to drive, when it's in the shop 29% of the time.

jb

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Mar 31, 2005 3:09:40 PM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: jboyko

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

haha thats a good one:!

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Mar 31, 2005 4:19:55 PM

997S4KEN: Junior; Loc: Ventura, CA; Posts: 100, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 29, 2005; Reply to: Dilinger

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

WOW! thanks for all you're great insight. Just as a side note I went yesterday 03-30-05 to Rusnak Porsche in Thousand Oaks California. I went there and asked questions about the Std seats, vs sport, vs adaptive. I sat in a 987 with std seats. I didnt like the pump action tooo much of going up and down, but 1500 or so for power seats seems kind of high, but necessary IMO. Anyway, theyre so pompous ass there its unbelieveable. I didnt even want to ask for a test drive seeing theyd probably turn upside down about it. Im going to Cutter Porsche in Santa Barbara this weekend for a test drive theyre really responsive and aggressive when it comes to pricing their cars and dealing with their customers. Funny thing at Rusnak, I asked what kind of deals they were offering for the new 997S. The salesman replied, what deals?? How much off msrp will you give me to earn my business?? He replied, we offer cars at msrp, and he gave me the song and dance how others are charging up to 5000 over msrp. This and for many other reasons why I will never buy from Rusnak Porsche in Thousand Oaks, please avoid them at all costs.

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Mar 31, 2005 7:38:14 PM

Leong: Co-Pilot; Loc: Auckland, NZ; Posts: 284, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 24, 2004; Reply to: 997S4KEN

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

Quote:
997S4KEN said:
I didnt like the pump action tooo much of going up and down, but 1500 or so for power seats seems kind of high, but necessary IMO.

FWIW I like elec seats because you also get the "memory" function. Can sometimes be hard to get that driving position "just right", (and esp useful for those whose cars seem to be in the shop a lot)

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Mar 31, 2005 7:57:48 PM

beltar: Veteran; Loc: belgium , Belgium; Posts: 1233, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 15, 2005; Reply to: Leong

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

Quote:
Leong said:
Quote:
997S4KEN said:
I didnt like the pump action tooo much of going up and down, but 1500 or so for power seats seems kind of high, but necessary IMO. FWIW I like elec seats because you also get the "memory" function. Can sometimes be hard to get that driving position "just right", (and esp useful for those whose cars seem to be in the shop a lot)

An interesting option, especially when you're not the only driver.
The car recognizes the key and adapts seat (even the electrical pumps in the sides), steeringwheel , mirrors etc

Compared to the 350Z , the Z is a very enjoyable toy (and a good one for sure)(I drove a 300 twinturbo long ago)the 911 is a myth , a virus that you'll never get rid off...

I got after my 300ZX TT a 965 (3.3 turbp), a 993targa, a 996 cabrio... in three weeks I'll get my 997S cabrio... The virus is stillgoing strong...

Learn to appreciate the car , at first you may be disappoited , but the more you'll drive it themore you'll get attached to it

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Mar 31, 2005 8:22:41 PM

Dubliner: Junior; Loc: NY, USA; Posts: 122, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 9, 2004; Reply to: beltar

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

I got the standard seats (because I didn't want to wait for a custom build) but must say I'm delighted with them. As the only driver, I never have to adjust the seats.
(Of course, on my C4S, I'll order full leather etc etc but still not sure about electic seats).

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Mar 31, 2005 11:46:27 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5886, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: Dubliner

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

Ken, if you want something really fast around the bends and built like a true sportscar should be (like the CGT), get a Boxster.

(Hehehe...lamb to the slaughter...)

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Apr 1, 2005 12:16:00 AM

Bitko: Pilot; Loc: Toronto, Canada , Canada; Posts: 388, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 25, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

It is true that it does take some time to get used to a new car. Many might disagree with me, but I have driven both the 350Z and the G35 Coupe; and in comparison, the 350Z was much easier car to drive, I felt kind of out of touch with the road when driving the G35; G35 didn't feel very sporty, wheras the 350Z was very sporty. If you have driven G35, and you felt comfortable, then you should feel much more comfortable driving the 997S, because it is true sports car and you really feel the road in it. Now this is a very weired suggestion, and don't know if anybody else would suggest it or not, try to drive a van with lots of luggage or people at the back, and do that for two day and then you will find driving the 997S is even easier than your 350Z

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Apr 1, 2005 2:20:23 AM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Dr. Phil

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
Ken, if you want something really fast around the bends and built like a true sportscar should be (like the CGT), get a Boxster.

Definitely easier and more forgiving and more immediately fun to drive. Boxster would be nice with at least 300HP. Until then the 911 is the easy choice for certain people.

(Hehehe...lamb to the slaughter...)

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Apr 1, 2005 4:06:13 AM

Rob997: Newbie; Loc: Orange County, CA; Posts: 4, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 1, 2005; Reply to: 997S4KEN

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

Ken,

We have something in common:

1. 997 or 997's ... I've owned both
2. 350Z... we've had a G35
3. Thousand Oaks and Santa Barbara...I walked out at Rusnek and bought my 997S in Santa Barbara.

I know you were debating on which car. If you are going to be just a "little" agressive in your driving (yeah right!) then a 997 will suit you fine. I'm new to Porsches too and drive relatively agressive. There is a difference in the two cars when driving aggressively. If used for a daily driver and driven modestly, I think you'll be OK in the 997.

As far as driving these cars, I'll I can say is awesome. They are easy cars to drive. You just have to know your own limits.

Rob

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Apr 1, 2005 5:27:46 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59607, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Rob997

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

Quote:
Rob997 said:
You just have to know your own limits.

This is so true and actually the best advise one can give. Unfortunately people think they know their limit(s) and end up kissing a tree. The problem is never the car, most modern sportscars have a very nice balanced and forgiving setup, the problem is always the driver.
Driver ed events are great but I suggest going with the official Porsche driving events first before people try other schools. Why? Because the Porsche driving school is pretty serious, this is where people get to REALLY learn their cars AND their limits. Some driving schools are too much into competition and too much into semi-pro track racing, this isn't a good thing if you don't know your car/limits yet and want to LEARN something.

And sorry for sounding like a smarta.. teacher again but I have to repeat myself: if people drive like a jerk on the street (not using the turning signal, not using the mirrors, not paying attention to the traffic around them, changing lanes like crazy, not keeping a steady speed in certain situations, etc.), they won't ever learn how to drive their car on the track, even if they think they're doing great. I'm not telling you guys to drive slowly or to respect traffic laws, this is YOUR business, not mine. Just make sure you drive like you would other drivers want to drive. Don't be a jerk, even if you want to drive fast. It is possible, just concentrate on DRIVING, not using the phone, eating/drinking or reading some business papers.

And now I shut up before I sound like my own father...

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Apr 1, 2005 5:43:13 AM

AndrewSS: Senior; Loc: columbus, OH; Posts: 587, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 4, 2004; Reply to: 997S4KEN

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

Quote:
997S4KEN said:
WOW! thanks for all you're great insight. Just as a side note I went yesterday 03-30-05 to Rusnak Porsche in Thousand Oaks California. I went there and asked questions about the Std seats, vs sport, vs adaptive. I sat in a 987 with std seats. I didnt like the pump action tooo much of going up and down, but 1500 or so for power seats seems kind of high, but necessary IMO. Anyway, theyre so pompous ass there its unbelieveable. I didnt even want to ask for a test drive seeing theyd probably turn upside down about it. Im going to Cutter Porsche in Santa Barbara this weekend for a test drive theyre really responsive and aggressive when it comes to pricing their cars and dealing with their customers. Funny thing at Rusnak, I asked what kind of deals they were offering for the new 997S. The salesman replied, what deals?? How much off msrp will you give me to earn my business?? He replied, we offer cars at msrp, and he gave me the song and dance how others are charging up to 5000 over msrp. This and for many other reasons why I will never buy from Rusnak Porsche in Thousand Oaks, please avoid them at all costs.

Hah, thats pretty funny, although i guess it has a lot to do with your location. Here in ohio, beechmont porsche is willing to deal with you, and Byers Imports is really willing. Byers took $8000 off my dads 997s so i guess geography and the dealer (of course) have to do with the dealing.

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Apr 1, 2005 5:44:12 AM

AndrewSS: Senior; Loc: columbus, OH; Posts: 587, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 4, 2004; Reply to: AndrewSS

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

oh and i really recommend those adaptive sport seats, they are GREAT!

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Apr 1, 2005 4:00:23 PM

Dilinger: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Athens,Greece , Greece; Posts: 2034, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: AndrewSS

Re: 997S Toooo Hard to drive??

Rob997 welcome to the forum,
Please tell us how you own both ,the story .You currently own both?

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997S Toooo Hard to drive??

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