Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne? - Page1

Mar 30, 2005 6:25:11 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002

New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

My Cayenne Turbo came with 20'' Michelin Diamaris N0 tires from the factory, these tires were great (dry/wet) but they lasted only around 10000 km. Now after the winter time is over here in Germany, I need new summer tires.
Apparently the "N0" version of the Michelin Diamaris isn't available anymore and there is now a "N1" version available.
I tried to do some background research to find out what has been changed and it seems that one thing has been changed for sure: how long the tire keeps it's rubber. The new "N1" tire seems to last at least 30-40% longer than it's predecessor. I also heard that dry/wet capabilities haven't changed, it is still a very good tire.

Just wanted to inform you guys, in the case your dealer tells you that the N0 isn't available anymore. It isn't.
If tire dealers have still the N0 available, go for the N1 instead. In case of a tire damage, you might end up with a N1 tire instead of the N0 tire and mixing N0 and N1 isn't approved and definetely not recommended!

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Mar 30, 2005 11:17:40 AM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

Thanks RC!

Good information.

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Mar 30, 2005 1:37:40 PM

DEETZ: Senior; Loc: Cambridge, MA; Posts: 559, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 3, 2004; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

thanks RC! next time I change those tires on my 22", I will go for N1, I use the 285/35/22

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Mar 30, 2005 1:56:11 PM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: DEETZ

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

Actually there will not be an "N" spec tire in 22". The largest wheel size Porsche approves tires for is 20".

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Mar 30, 2005 2:04:55 PM

sigs: Co-Pilot; Loc: Texas, USA; Posts: 193, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 28, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

Thanks, RC. Good info, as always. Do you know if the same applies to other sizes, - specifically the 19"? I've finally ordered a CTT with PK, having decided I could live with the 19" wheels. Will probably use the Diamaris for street and TRY to find something better for limited off-road.
Thanks again!

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Mar 30, 2005 2:10:28 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

Quote:
GM Austin said:
Actually there will not be an "N" spec tire in 22". The largest wheel size Porsche approves tires for is 20".

Right.

I'm afraid DEETZ has to stick with non-N certified tires.

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Mar 30, 2005 4:18:05 PM

Sarnico 45: Junior; Loc: Italy; Posts: 52, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 13, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

Quote:
RC said:
My Cayenne Turbo came with 20'' Michelin Diamaris N0 tires from the factory ...

Probably I have bad memory but Porsche dealers in Milan told me that Porsche Italy didn't recognize as "official supporter" Michelin but only Pirelli and Continental.
I also had Diamaris (22) on my ML400 and I like it but if I want to fit on my Cayenne I'll have some problem in case of crash.

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Mar 30, 2005 4:53:09 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Sarnico 45

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

Quote:
Sarnico 45 said:
Probably I have bad memory but Porsche dealers in Milan told me that Porsche Italy didn't recognize as "official supporter" Michelin but only Pirelli and Continental.

This is absolutely not true, forget about what dealers tell you, some of them don't have a clue what they're talking about.
Porsche "approved" and "official" tires always carry a N-classification like N0, N1 and so on. This N-classification is WRITTEN on the tire next to the tire size.
N0 is usually the first generation, N1 the next and so on.
Even if the tire is a Michelin Pilot Sport for example, as soon as it has a N0, N1 or whatever on it, it also has a completely different compound mixture and maybe even structure/profile than the "standard" tire of the same brand and name.
Porsche works together with Bridgestone, Pirelli, Continental, Michelin and Yokohama. I may have forgotten one manufacturer but these are the most important ones.
Michelin also sponsors club races, it is an official supplier for the Porsche Supercup and Carrera Cup Germany right now. So it would be pretty dumb of a dealer to say that Michelin is not an "official" supplier.

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Mar 30, 2005 5:40:51 PM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

Michelin is also a sponser and exclusive supplier to the PCNA Porsche Driving Experience at Barber Motorsports in Birmingham. Porsche even used Michelin off-road tires on the Cayenne, even though there is no such tire available when you buy a Cayenne. For on-track Cayennes they used Diamaris 20".

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Mar 30, 2005 8:19:49 PM

DEETZ: Senior; Loc: Cambridge, MA; Posts: 559, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 3, 2004; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

thanks Austin and RC. I am sorry I defeat the purpose of this car, my car is totally useless in snow and off-road until I switch back to the 18" hahaha!

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Mar 31, 2005 6:52:06 AM

Sarnico 45: Junior; Loc: Italy; Posts: 52, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 13, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

Surely I'm wrong, but when I wrote that Porsche Italy don't recognize Michelin I talk only about Cayenne model and not for all the Porsche car.
Last december I fit yokohama winter tires buy from a italian Porsche dealer cause it was impossible to find pirelli or continental winter tyre.
Porsche Haus (own by Porsche AG) in Milan told me that Yokohama winter tyre have not the certification from Porsche.
And they told me that for Cayenne the certificated winter tyre are only Pirelli and Continental.
Probably it's only a winter tyre problem.
That's all.

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Mar 31, 2005 8:34:11 PM

denn: Senior; Loc: Finland , Finland; Posts: 701, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2004; Reply to: Sarnico 45

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

I doubt that Porsche has certified any "real" winter tyres, those that are used in the nordic countries, that is. At least not studded ones. The requirements are quite different from most other countries that get snow at all.

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Mar 31, 2005 9:37:01 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: denn

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

Quote:
denn said:
I doubt that Porsche has certified any "real" winter tyres, those that are used in the nordic countries, that is. At least not studded ones. The requirements are quite different from most other countries that get snow at all.

I doubt that 90% of the "nordic" countries got the snow we got over here the past few weeks and months over here in Bavaria, Austria and Switzerland.

To my knowledge, Porsche does winter tire testing in Finland and Sweden and the winter tires which are certified are REAL winter tires. If you're talking about tires with spikes, this is a different story. The 18'' winter tires recommended by Porsche are great in winter time, honestly. But I was dumb enough to get the 19'' tires for my Cayenne in the hope that I'm gonna retrofit the Powerkit. Now that a retrofit has been ruled out (too much money, especially since I may go for the facelifted Cayenne in 2 years), I'm "stuck" with the 19'' winter tires. They disappointed me a lot this winter but overall, they kept me running and this is what counts most when it is snowing.

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Mar 30, 2006 5:49:43 PM

spize: Newbie; Loc: UK; Posts: 25, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 28, 2006; Reply to: DEETZ

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

I wish I'd seen this thread last week. We have a '04 CS with 20" Sportsdesign rims and Michelin Diamaris tyres . We bought the car used from the local Porsche dealer 6 months ago. The front 2 tyres were replaced by them before we took delivery.

I've recently checked them and they have the N1 rating. Our rears are N0. I know this as we had a slow puncture and had the rear replaced last week. Not knowing the difference I replaced the old N0 with a new N0 - so it seems the "old spec" tyres are still available here in the UK - I had quotes from a number of different places and was always aksed if it was No or N1 spec I wanted.

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Mar 30, 2006 7:00:54 PM

PS CA: Veteran; Loc: California , United States; Posts: 833, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 13, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

Quote:
RC said:
Now that a retrofit has been ruled out (too much money, especially since I may go for the facelifted Cayenne in 2 years), I'm "stuck" with the 19'' winter tires.

RC, what is the latest you have heard on the facelifted Cayenne? Many here think it will be out by the first part of 2007. I believe you have stated that it won't happen until the 2008 model year which would come out in the 3rd quarter of 2007.

Any updated news?

Phil

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Mar 30, 2006 9:36:14 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: spize

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

Quote:
spize said:
I wish I'd seen this thread last week. We have a '04 CS with 20" Sportsdesign rims and Michelin Diamaris tyres . We bought the car used from the local Porsche dealer 6 months ago. The front 2 tyres were replaced by them before we took delivery.

I've recently checked them and they have the N1 rating. Our rears are N0. I know this as we had a slow puncture and had the rear replaced last week. Not knowing the difference I replaced the old N0 with a new N0 - so it seems the "old spec" tyres are still available here in the UK - I had quotes from a number of different places and was always aksed if it was No or N1 spec I wanted.

I know you'll hate what I tell you now but you should definetely NOT run mixed N-designation tires. ALL four tires have to have the same N-designation, otherwise you could encounter some unpredictable driving behaviour in extreme situations.

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Mar 30, 2006 9:38:16 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: PS CA

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

Quote:
PS CA said:
RC, what is the latest you have heard on the facelifted Cayenne? Many here think it will be out by the first part of 2007. I believe you have stated that it won't happen until the 2008 model year which would come out in the 3rd quarter of 2007.

Any updated news?

Phil

Still the same rumour...Cayenne Facelift coming for MY 2008 (starting June/July 2007). It can't be excluded that some cars make it earlier to dealers in certain markets but I doubt that we see the facelifted Cayenne before april 2007 in the US.

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Mar 31, 2006 8:13:45 AM

spize: Newbie; Loc: UK; Posts: 25, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 28, 2006; Reply to: RC

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

Quite the opposite - I'm glad of the expert advice - thanks.

I just wished I'd happened on this info last week and I could have replaced the punctured N0 rear with a N1 tyre leaving just one to be replaced in the near future.

The car is going back to the OPC Mid April to have a few problems fixed (PCM suddenly wont read the Nav CD). I'll raise this issue with them then. If they deny mixing N0/N1 tyres is a problem (as I expect, since they'll have to change 2 tyres at their cost if they admit it) I'll ask them to put it in writing to me.

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Apr 1, 2006 11:48:05 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: spize

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

Quote:
spize said:
...I'll ask them to put it in writing to me.

I'm curious to hear about the result.

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Apr 4, 2006 3:48:14 AM

MattTheCarNut: Pilot; Loc: Austin, Texas; Posts: 329, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 12, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

Quote:
RC said:
My Cayenne Turbo came with 20'' Michelin Diamaris N0 tires from the factory, these tires were great (dry/wet) but they lasted only around 10000 km. Now after the winter time is over here in Germany, I need new summer tires.
Apparently the "N0" version of the Michelin Diamaris isn't available anymore and there is now a "N1" version available.
I tried to do some background research to find out what has been changed and it seems that one thing has been changed for sure: how long the tire keeps it's rubber. The new "N1" tire seems to last at least 30-40% longer than it's predecessor. I also heard that dry/wet capabilities haven't changed, it is still a very good tire.

Just wanted to inform you guys, in the case your dealer tells you that the N0 isn't available anymore. It isn't.
If tire dealers have still the N0 available, go for the N1 instead. In case of a tire damage, you might end up with a N1 tire instead of the N0 tire and mixing N0 and N1 isn't approved and definetely not recommended!

My Dad is on his second set of the N1 version. The first set (N0) lasted 11,000 miles. The second set (N1) lasted 22,000 miles!!!

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Apr 5, 2006 6:59:35 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: MattTheCarNut

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

Yes, the N1 generation definetely lasts longer, I have the same experience.

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Apr 5, 2006 11:34:58 AM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: MattTheCarNut

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

Quote:
My Dad is on his second set of the N1 version. The first set (N0) lasted 11,000 miles. The second set (N1) lasted 22,000 miles!!!

Thanks Matt.

That's impressive mileage. I'm only getting 15,000 miles on the M&S rated Continental Contacts.

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Apr 20, 2006 3:14:21 PM

spize: Newbie; Loc: UK; Posts: 25, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 28, 2006; Reply to: RC

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
spize said:
...I'll ask them to put it in writing to me.

I'm curious to hear about the result.

So - our Cayenne S went back to the dealer for a bust satnav and a few other gripes. They called me to point out I had N0 (rear) and N1 (front) tyres mixed which is not recommended. (I also had one of the N1 fronts which had wear on the side - still legal but needing replacing sooner rather than later.)

After I told them they supplied the car with that mix to me they came back and offered to change one tyre and do a 4 wheel re-align FOC if I paid for one new tyre for Pounds293 (as they felt I would need one tyre anyway).

I argued that they should change the tyres at their cost and I should pay for the re-align (two hours work?) as the tyres were their responsiblity and the current condition was irrelevent.

Bottom line - finally agreed on both fronts being changed and 4 wheel re-align done for Pounds238.

Problem solved

So now I have 4 N0s

My thanks to you RC for giving me the info to fight this - if I hadn't already known it was a problem I might have agreed to a more expensive deal through not having time to process the info before decing on a solution.

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Apr 20, 2006 4:22:05 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: spize

Re: New Michelin Diamaris tire generation for Cayenne?

My pleasure.

BTW: the N0 isn't bad at all, it just seems to wear off faster.

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