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Mar 17, 2005 1:11:59 AM
- Captain Bady
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- Reply to: bostonmini
Mar 17, 2005 1:41:44 AM
- svtrader1
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Re: Another pic of manual F430
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bostonmini said:
looks very retro Sv, maybe they are hinting at how they want to sell more F1s bc of the higher profit;)
With each iteration F1 has been improved, and therefore, it's popularity has grown. Ferrari doesn't need to be underhanded. F1's sell themselves.
I personally think the manual looks fine.
Mar 17, 2005 5:08:00 PM
- Captain Bady
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Re: Another pic of manual F430
Quote:
Patriek (jennyz) said:Quote:
Grant said:
I bet it's alot more fun to use than the F1 tranny
I don't think so, the F1 works PERFECT on the F430, it's fun to use it, ...
If you know how to use it, the manual is 10 times much more rewarding than the F1.
From the F1 you can get bored fastly, like a video game. From the manual, I doubt!
Mar 17, 2005 5:40:46 PM
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zzboba
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Re: Another pic of manual F430
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If you know how to use it, the manual is 10 times much more rewarding than the F1.
From the F1 you can get bored fastly, like a video game. From the manual, I doubt!
bady, i used to favour the manual over F1 by far. in my opinion the F1 was something for marketing victims who want to "shift like schuey" -- but not since i test drove the F430 F1. i own a GT3 currently, which is raw and pure (which i love and which is all the GT3 idea is about) -- in comparison the F430 seemed to me like some high-tech machine from outer space, and the F1 suited this concept just perfect IMO. and braking in a curve, performing a downshift and let the F1 control the throttle better than any heel-toe i'm capable of... without taking the hand from the steering wheel... not to forget the sound... I WAS SEDUCED IMMEDIATELY!
Mar 17, 2005 5:59:42 PM
- Captain Bady
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zzboba
Re: Another pic of manual F430
Quote:
zzboba said:
Quote:
If you know how to use it, the manual is 10 times much more rewarding than the F1.
From the F1 you can get bored fastly, like a video game. From the manual, I doubt!
bady, i used to favour the manual over F1 by far. in my opinion the F1 was something for marketing victims who want to "shift like schuey" -- but not since i test drove the F430 F1. i own a GT3 currently, which is raw and pure (which i love and which is all the GT3 idea is about) -- in comparison the F430 seemed to me like some high-tech machine from outer space, and the F1 suited this concept just perfect IMO. and braking in a curve, performing a downshift and let the F1 control the throttle better than any heel-toe i'm capable of... without taking the hand from the steering wheel... not to forget the sound... I WAS SEDUCED IMMEDIATELY!
I am sure it has seduced you. I find it really easy to use it and as you said it is much easier to drive, but just because you are able to concentrate much more on the driving and at the same time have the sound that the engines emits while shifting (upwards and downwards)
Mar 17, 2005 8:10:23 PM
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nberry
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- Reply to: Captain Bady
Re: Another pic of manual F430
Quote:
Captain Bady said:Quote:
zzboba said:
Quote:
If you know how to use it, the manual is 10 times much more rewarding than the F1.
From the F1 you can get bored fastly, like a video game. From the manual, I doubt!
bady, i used to favour the manual over F1 by far. in my opinion the F1 was something for marketing victims who want to "shift like schuey" -- but not since i test drove the F430 F1. i own a GT3 currently, which is raw and pure (which i love and which is all the GT3 idea is about) -- in comparison the F430 seemed to me like some high-tech machine from outer space, and the F1 suited this concept just perfect IMO. and braking in a curve, performing a downshift and let the F1 control the throttle better than any heel-toe i'm capable of... without taking the hand from the steering wheel... not to forget the sound... I WAS SEDUCED IMMEDIATELY!
I am sure it has seduced you. I find it really easy to use it and as you said it is much easier to drive, but just because you are able to concentrate much more on the driving and at the same time have the sound that the engines emits while shifting (upwards and downwards)
Bady there are some writers today who still use pen or pencil. Most use PC's and are more productive and write better. I have no doubt when Porsche develops its own DSG and begins to tout it most of you will fall in line.
Re: Another pic of manual F430
Quote:
brunner said:Quote:
I have no doubt when Porsche develops its own DSG and begins to tout it most of you will fall in line.
Check your facts, Nick
Porsche's PDK/DSG is at least 12 years old by now
Apparently they are having difficulty coming up with a final product.
Rumors indicate Porsche wanted it for the CGT but it had not been perfected. 
When they introduce it in a couple of years(?), watch how all these diehard manual owners flock to it.
Mar 18, 2005 12:46:04 AM
- Jeff (in SF)
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- Reply to: nberry
Re: Another pic of manual F430
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
brunner said:Quote:
I have no doubt when Porsche develops its own DSG and begins to tout it most of you will fall in line.
Check your facts, Nick
Porsche's PDK/DSG is at least 12 years old by now
Apparently they are having difficulty coming up with a final product.
When they introduce it in a couple of years(?), watch how all these diehard manual owners flock to it.
I don't think their engineering is in question. As noted, the 962's were equipped with PDK in the 80's but a racing transmission (gear whine, smoothness, etc.) isn't the best road-use transmission. The software (writing, testing, integrating with other electronic systems like PASM, Chrono Sport, etc.) is probably what's taking the most time. Ferrari's first few F1 systems have been criticized for their on-road comfort although much admired for track use. BMW's first SMG system was criticized across the board but its newer system has been much improved. Considering that Porsche's are used more for everyday, lots of on-road use, etc. I think the standards that Porsche is striving for pose some challenges that they are no doubt trying to work through. Let's see how they do.
Mar 18, 2005 12:54:37 AM
- Captain Bady
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Re: Another pic of manual F430
Quote:
nberry said:
Bady there are some writers today who still use pen or pencil. Most use PC's and are more productive and write better. I have no doubt when Porsche develops its own DSG and begins to tout it most of you will fall in line.
Why do you say most of you will fall in line? I would certainly get the F430 in manual. Same will be if I get the new GT3. May be it will be nice to test the GT3 with a DSG gearbox, but that's all!
I don't agree with the comparison you made between hand writing and typing. Typing on computers is faster and efficient, but has nothing to do with pleasure. We drive our sport cars for pleasure of driving (at least me), not because we need to move from A to B. For that, there are SUVs, Citycars, sedans, etc.
I am pretty sure everyone will end up with the semi automatic gear box, but I still think the manual is more fun. A sequential (real one) is a good compromise of both but it will be almost impossible to see it on a road car.
Mar 18, 2005 9:10:23 AM
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zzboba
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Re: Another pic of manual F430
Quote:
Captain Bady said:Quote:
nberry said:
Bady there are some writers today who still use pen or pencil. Most use PC's and are more productive and write better. I have no doubt when Porsche develops its own DSG and begins to tout it most of you will fall in line.
Why do you say most of you will fall in line? I would certainly get the F430 in manual. Same will be if I get the new GT3. May be it will be nice to test the GT3 with a DSG gearbox, but that's all!
I don't agree with the comparison you made between hand writing and typing. Typing on computers is faster and efficient, but has nothing to do with pleasure. We drive our sport cars for pleasure of driving (at least me), not because we need to move from A to B. For that, there are SUVs, Citycars, sedans, etc.
I am pretty sure everyone will end up with the semi automatic gear box, but I still think the manual is more fun. A sequential (real one) is a good compromise of both but it will be almost impossible to see it on a road car.
i agree with you bady, that we drive our sport cars mainly for pleasure, but the latest ferrari F1 is quite fun actually! the points you mentioned (you can concentrate on steering, sound etc) are correct. but added to this, you still have the feeling to be in charge, to shift. you just don't operate the clutch.
and let's not forget, that we both own the GT3 currently, which is such a joy to shift. i've never experienced any manual anywhere -- i drove a friends 355 some years ago. although it was just for some minutes and i was very cautious, i can tell that i didn't like it. the tranny was notchy (open H gate looks nice, no doubt
), i had my problems with the clutch as well.to nick: the DSG is perfect, but maybe it's already too perfect for an emotional experience. my brother took a test drive in a VW golf GTI DSG one month ago, and i tried it out as well. it was magnificent, magic, etc -- but was it thrilling? emotional? not at all. too perfect. it was kind of driving in gran turismo 4 on the PS2.
Re: Another pic of manual F430
Quote:
Patriek (jennyz) said:Quote:
dhayek said:
but still...i find the center console of the manual tranny ugly....i even like the reverse small lever of the 360 more than the push button of the 430
I second that
I don't, T-lever always looked ridiculous, push button is far better IMO.
Mar 19, 2005 5:22:28 PM
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nberry
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Re: Another pic of manual F430
Quote:
Captain Bady said:Quote:
nberry said:
Bady there are some writers today who still use pen or pencil. Most use PC's and are more productive and write better. I have no doubt when Porsche develops its own DSG and begins to tout it most of you will fall in line.
Why do you say most of you will fall in line?
Because your not stupid! It is like music. The first time you hear it since it is new there is a tendency to reject it. However, after playing it a few times, the melody become more familiar and pleasurable.
The same with a DSG like tranny. The assumption is it would not be fun because it is new and completely different than what you are accustomed to. However, once Porsche begins to provide you with the benefits of their version and had the experience what most do once they have tried it, you will join the bandwagon.
Of course, through shear stubbornness you may stick with manual all to the disadvantage of your driving performance.
Grant, all I can say is SOMEDAY it will happen.
Re: Another pic of manual F430
While all things Ferrari must be assuredly wonderful......
I stll think the manual tranny is the way to go for the street.
The F1 tranny is the culmination of their F1 experience and knowledge,it shifts fast as hell,but it all looks too video game like. Its almost as if their should be a slot for game tokens somewhere on the dashboard.
I suppose that if you took a Ferrari with a F1 tranny and added Volvos lane control, Jaquars cruise control radar and
a GPS system that new the road and wired it all up to the trottle control, that some Ferrari owners would tell us how wonderful it is to not have any driving skill but a large checkbook instead.
Relying upon technology to replace driving skill and effort is a rather hollow idea for a sports car. It pretty much makes it all like buying a $200,000 dollar rolling playstation system, cute and good for the lazy, but ridiculous.
I stll think the manual tranny is the way to go for the street.
The F1 tranny is the culmination of their F1 experience and knowledge,it shifts fast as hell,but it all looks too video game like. Its almost as if their should be a slot for game tokens somewhere on the dashboard.
I suppose that if you took a Ferrari with a F1 tranny and added Volvos lane control, Jaquars cruise control radar and
a GPS system that new the road and wired it all up to the trottle control, that some Ferrari owners would tell us how wonderful it is to not have any driving skill but a large checkbook instead.
Relying upon technology to replace driving skill and effort is a rather hollow idea for a sports car. It pretty much makes it all like buying a $200,000 dollar rolling playstation system, cute and good for the lazy, but ridiculous.
Mar 19, 2005 6:47:03 PM
- Captain Bady
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Reply to:
zzboba
Mar 19, 2005 6:51:30 PM
- Captain Bady
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- Reply to: nberry
Re: Another pic of manual F430
Quote:
nberry said:
Because you are not stupid! It is like music. The first time you hear it since it is new there is a tendency to reject it. However, after playing it a few times, the melody become more familiar and pleasurable.
....you may stick with manual all to the disadvantage of your driving performance.
Wow, you reassure me!
Being serious, I think you made a good point with the music, however (yes, seems that there is always a "however"
) you forgot to mention that there are songs that you like a lot at the beginning, you listen to them and after a while you get bored of it.Performance certainly, fun who knows !!?!!
Mar 19, 2005 10:51:51 PM
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nberry
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Re: Another pic of manual F430
Quote:
Captain Bady said:Quote:
nberry said:
Because you are not stupid! It is like music. The first time you hear it since it is new there is a tendency to reject it. However, after playing it a few times, the melody become more familiar and pleasurable.
....you may stick with manual all to the disadvantage of your driving performance.
you forgot to mention that there are songs that you like a lot at the beginning, you listen to them and after a while you get bored of it.
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