Crown

Quote:
wan888 said:
I've done a bit of research and it seems pricing of the CGT seems a bit funny.

US market are cheapest by far comparing to Europe or elsewhere.

I've heard that the CGT will not pass next year's US emission test, that's why Porsche is pushing all the cars into US first.

Does anyone got some price guideline ?

I know US is selling around from US$400k

Quote:
ben, lj said:

Quote:
wan888 said:
I've done a bit of research and it seems pricing of the CGT seems a bit funny.

US market are cheapest by far comparing to Europe or elsewhere.

I've heard that the CGT will not pass next year's US emission test, that's why Porsche is pushing all the cars into US first.

Does anyone got some price guideline ?

I know US is selling around from US$400k

it's not emissions but air bag related. yep, appx $400k is the market in the US.

Quote:
baron said:

Quote:
ben, lj said:

Quote:
wan888 said:
I've done a bit of research and it seems pricing of the CGT seems a bit funny.

US market are cheapest by far comparing to Europe or elsewhere.

I've heard that the CGT will not pass next year's US emission test, that's why Porsche is pushing all the cars into US first.

Does anyone got some price guideline ?

I know US is selling around from US$400k

it's not emissions but air bag related. yep, appx $400k is the market in the US.

Ben,

What do you think we can do if we have a CGT currently on order? Supposedly the $50k deposit is non-refundable, and is considered as a pre-payment instead. I don't really want to pay MSRP ($440k) for it, especially if the current US market value is at around $400k. Do you think there anyway I can negotiate with the dealer?

Thanks,
Baron

Quote:
baron said:
Does anyone know if the SLR Mclaren is seeing similar demand problems? I would see the SLR as less desirable than the CGT is everyway.

Quote:
baron said:
It's hard to believe there are so many unsold CGTs. I do hope that the demand of these cars pick up. This could result in disasterous loss for any new owners.

Does anyone know if the SLR Mclaren is seeing similar demand problems? I would see the SLR as less desirable than the CGT is everyway.

Baron

Quote:
nberry said:

Quote:
baron said:
It's hard to believe there are so many unsold CGTs. I do hope that the demand of these cars pick up. This could result in disasterous loss for any new owners.

Does anyone know if the SLR Mclaren is seeing similar demand problems? I would see the SLR as less desirable than the CGT is everyway.

Baron

Second, and more importantly, it suffers from the company who designed and built it. Porsche makes excellent cars but has no concern about owner value. They made a decision a few years back that customer be damned and only focus on company profit (figuratively they hand you the keys and tell you to bend over and grab your ankles ).

The result has been those that buy a new Porsche suffer substantial depreciation in ownership. But most buyers rationalize the decision but telling themselves the car is not an investment but for enjoyment. Right on!

Quote:
I give about half an hour before Carlos engages the counter attack ...

Quote:
nberry said:
The result has been those that buy a new Porsche suffer substantial depreciation in ownership. But most buyers rationalize the decision but telling themselves the car is not an investment but for enjoyment. Right on!

Quote:
GM Austin said:

Quote:
I give about half an hour before Carlos engages the counter attack ...

And it's only taking that long because he's with a patient!

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Carlos from Spain said:

Quote:
nberry said:
The result has been those that buy a new Porsche suffer substantial depreciation in ownership. But most buyers rationalize the decision but telling themselves the car is not an investment but for enjoyment. Right on!

Those who can appreciate and enjoy sportcars for what their intended purpose is realise they are depreciable assets and buy what they want "to drive" and gives them most pleasure and enjoyment doing so within their economic posibilities, and those that don't and are missing out on that tend to regard them as a cold investments and judge their purchases soly by investment standards and other non-driving related issues if you they afford it and its worthwile for their onwners then were is the problme? its not like Porsche's depreciation is bellow market average, here in Spain is among the best in the market and if you consider running costs, insurance, versatility, etc. then the cost of onwership is much lower than Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Quote:
GM Austin said:

Quote:
I give about half an hour before Carlos engages the counter attack ...

And it's only taking that long because he's with a patient!

Unfortunately I can never connect while at the clinics, no time, but fortunately for nick I have the evening off

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:

Quote:
nberry said:
The result has been those that buy a new Porsche suffer substantial depreciation in ownership. But most buyers rationalize the decision but telling themselves the car is not an investment but for enjoyment. Right on!

Those who can appreciate and enjoy sportcars for what their intended purpose is realise they are depreciable assets and buy what they want "to drive" and gives them most pleasure and enjoyment doing so within their economic posibilities, and those that don't and are missing out on that tend to regard them as a cold investments and judge their purchases soly by investment standards and other non-driving related issues if you they afford it and its worthwile for their onwners then were is the problme? its not like Porsche's depreciation is bellow market average, here in Spain is among the best in the market and if you consider running costs, insurance, versatility, etc. then the cost of onwership is much lower than Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Quote:
GM Austin said:

Quote:
I give about half an hour before Carlos engages the counter attack ...

And it's only taking that long because he's with a patient!

Unfortunately I can never connect while at the clinics, no time, but fortunately for nick I have the evening off

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nberry said:
Porsche is fat and happy and the owners have nothing more than performance to salve their financial wounds.

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W8MM said:

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nberry said:
Porsche is fat and happy and the owners have nothing more than performance to salve their financial wounds.

Is this supposed to be pithy?

Performance is EXACTLY why I spent the money on mine

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Nick, I have to agree with the CGT, but CGT purchase is not a cold logical one if you have te money to buy one, then loosing some money on it to be able to enjoy such a car is the buyers right if he can afford it. Think of it this way, less poseurs will be buying the car

AS to US, not only is the US not the world market, but also when you say "disater" when refering to resale value in US, have you checked its rivals? BMW-M3, Gallardo, Vette/Viper, etc?
You are comparing it to Ferrari's artificial "US" market, were the new models are solds to a few pre-arranged customers who garage-queen them only to be traded in shortly after for the next one so that the dealer can resell the car and make profit several times on the same car at the expense of the second hand Ferrari buyers that have to bend over for the overinflated price. Over here, Ferarri resale is "good" but maintenace, repairs, insurance, etc make it a more expensive car to own than a Porsche in the end. Even more so if you intend to really drive the Ferrari. And there is nothing wrong with that, if you want to enjoy a Ferrari, you have to pay for it.

For many people, Porsche sportcars have no subtitute, no competition (and given their success, its quite a bit of people) so the logical depreciation is worth paying for for them. And in many parts of the world, its not even bad at all so its a great purchase when you weight in all that you get:
- practicallity (can be used as a daily driver so you don't need to spend on one car for the weekend another for the weekdays, and also enjoy a sportcar on weekdays),
- performance (top notch that matches performance of pricier sportcars),
- safety (excellent passive and active safety for a sportcar unlike other competitors),
- reliability (always top marks in the reliability polls),
- build quality & refinement,
- technology-engineering (what porsche is famous for along perfromance),
- resale (above average in many market and at least average in others), etc.
- versatility (a model for perfect for each person's needs, AWD/RWD, coupe/targa/cab, N-A/turbo, street/track, etc.)
and so on.
Thats why they are so succesful.

Quote:
nberry said:

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Nick, I have to agree with the CGT, but CGT purchase is not a cold logical one if you have te money to buy one, then loosing some money on it to be able to enjoy such a car is the buyers right if he can afford it. Think of it this way, less poseurs will be buying the car

AS to US, not only is the US not the world market, but also when you say "disater" when refering to resale value in US, have you checked its rivals? BMW-M3, Gallardo, Vette/Viper, etc?
You are comparing it to Ferrari's artificial "US" market, were the new models are solds to a few pre-arranged customers who garage-queen them only to be traded in shortly after for the next one so that the dealer can resell the car and make profit several times on the same car at the expense of the second hand Ferrari buyers that have to bend over for the overinflated price. Over here, Ferarri resale is "good" but maintenace, repairs, insurance, etc make it a more expensive car to own than a Porsche in the end. Even more so if you intend to really drive the Ferrari. And there is nothing wrong with that, if you want to enjoy a Ferrari, you have to pay for it.

For many people, Porsche sportcars have no subtitute, no competition (and given their success, its quite a bit of people) so the logical depreciation is worth paying for for them. And in many parts of the world, its not even bad at all so its a great purchase when you weight in all that you get:
- practicallity (can be used as a daily driver so you don't need to spend on one car for the weekend another for the weekdays, and also enjoy a sportcar on weekdays),
- performance (top notch that matches performance of pricier sportcars),
- safety (excellent passive and active safety for a sportcar unlike other competitors),
- reliability (always top marks in the reliability polls),
- build quality & refinement,
- technology-engineering (what porsche is famous for along perfromance),
- resale (above average in many market and at least average in others), etc.
- versatility (a model for perfect for each person's needs, AWD/RWD, coupe/targa/cab, N-A/turbo, street/track, etc.)
and so on.
Thats why they are so succesful.

Much of your list can equally apply to several sport cars. The Vette and the 350Z to name a couple which are substantially cheaper in PRICE. I am sensing at least here in the US the Porsche mystique is beginning to wane. Also, I believe Porsche is well aware of this and broadening their product base to stem the bleeding to coming.

Carlos, we will never agree but this much I know, at the end of our car ownership my wallet will be thicker than yours.

Quote:
nberry said:Pithy is when a Ruf modified 993TT can run with if not out run the CGT for about 1/3 the price IF performance is only what matters to you.

Quote:
Grant said:

Quote:
nberry said:Pithy is when a Ruf modified 993TT can run with if not out run the CGT for about 1/3 the price IF performance is only what matters to you.

No way a RUF 993TT can keep up with a CGT on a racetrack (not oval).

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:

Quote:
Grant said:

Quote:
nberry said:Pithy is when a Ruf modified 993TT can run with if not out run the CGT for about 1/3 the price IF performance is only what matters to you.

No way a RUF 993TT can keep up with a CGT on a racetrack (not oval).

Hey, ovals are tracks too

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Nick, I have to agree with the CGT, but CGT purchase is not a cold logical one if you have te money to buy one, then loosing some money on it to be able to enjoy such a car is the buyers right if he can afford it. Think of it this way, less poseurs will be buying the car

AS to US, not only is the US not the world market, but also when you say "disater" when refering to resale value in US, have you checked its rivals? BMW-M3, Gallardo, Vette/Viper, etc?
You are comparing it to Ferrari's artificial "US" market, were the new models are solds to a few pre-arranged customers who garage-queen them only to be traded in shortly after for the next one so that the dealer can resell the car and make profit several times on the same car at the expense of the second hand Ferrari buyers that have to bend over for the overinflated price. Over here, Ferarri resale is "good" but maintenace, repairs, insurance, etc make it a more expensive car to own than a Porsche in the end. Even more so if you intend to really drive the Ferrari. And there is nothing wrong with that, if you want to enjoy a Ferrari, you have to pay for it.

For many people, Porsche sportcars have no subtitute, no competition (and given their success, its quite a bit of people) so the logical depreciation is worth paying for for them. And in many parts of the world, its not even bad at all so its a great purchase when you weight in all that you get:
- practicallity (can be used as a daily driver so you don't need to spend on one car for the weekend another for the weekdays, and also enjoy a sportcar on weekdays),
- performance (top notch that matches performance of pricier sportcars),
- safety (excellent passive and active safety for a sportcar unlike other competitors),
- reliability (always top marks in the reliability polls),
- build quality & refinement,
- technology-engineering (what porsche is famous for along perfromance),
- resale (above average in many market and at least average in others), etc.
- versatility (a model for perfect for each person's needs, AWD/RWD, coupe/targa/cab, N-A/turbo, street/track, etc.)
and so on.
Thats why they are so succesful.

Quote:
nberry said:

BTW your CGT will run circles around my shortly to be delivered 430. Yet I am being offered $60,000 over MSRP. Ask yourself why that should be.