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    Re: Manual vs Auto

    Quote:
    Fact; you should not be in reverse going up hill with a F1 tranny NOR a manual.


    Fact; Porsche is a performance car.

    Fact; 99.9% of drivers will be faster in performance using a F1 type tranny on any road and under any circumstance compared to a manual.

    Fact; manual transmissions are archaic and only used by people who are more interested in exercising all their limbs and not driving performance.

    Fact; once Porsche fully develops a F1 type tranny all the dinosaurs who now own manual will embrace the new technology by claiming they knew all along this was the only way to go but were waiting for it to be perfected.




    Fact: Eventually, following your line of reasoning, you would eventually turn the ENTIRE PROCESS OF DRIVING over to computer controlled gadgets, and go faster than any human being could ever possibly achieve.

    That fact alone, I firmly believe, makes your entire premise fairly laughable, if not slightly sad and pathetic from an enthusiast standpoint.

    Yes, there's a huge market for paddle-shift F1-style gearboxes. But I'm not in that market, and never will be. It's one thing to make something better, it's another thing to take away a primary driving interface. Racing is about ultimate efficiency. But personal driving is about enjoyment. I enjoy being in total control of my machine, and direct control of power delivery is by far one of the most visceral aspects of driving pleasure and SATISFACTION. To each, there own. But don't delude yourself into believing that people will eventually give up control of major driving inputs in the interest of shaving a little time off of laps they rarely take. Some will, many will not. Again, I don't think it's an aversion to change. It's a love of driving, of involvement, of feeling as if the machine is an extension of your very body. Shifting with paddles or buttons, and no clutch modulation, numbs the involvement, in the interest of what?....

    Re: Manual vs Auto

    Carlos, again, you expressed my sentiments better than I could.

    nberry, there's no issue regarding going into reverse pointed uphill or downhill with a manual gearbox. If it is pre-loaded, you just let it roll in neutral a few inches to rotate and reverse slides right in. After that, reverse is typically the strongest holding gear in the box. Don't know what you're talking about there, which may shed some light on why you're so much "faster" with your DSG!

    Re: Manual vs Auto

    my opionion.......

    its a Porsche a fun car to drive. It should be a STICK!!!!

    if i was the type to get an Auto... in wouldnt be a Porsche but a MB SL500 SL55 or SL600. With retractable hardtop. Best of both worlds!!!! But I want a fun car so I stick with Porsche & Manual.

    Re: Manual vs Auto

    OK, I've decided. I choose my cars for entertainment value, to drive them hard and have great fun doing so. I don't want to detract from this main aim even if a high proportion of my time is spent sat in traffic.

    Although the auto box is the best I've ever driven by a long way, I think the manual will provide me with more fun. I will enjoy refining my skills to master this type of gearbox and learning to toe/heel in order to recreate the satisfying downshift throttle blip I get on my M3 CSL.

    Many thanks for all your input which helped me to see things clearly.

    Re: Manual vs Auto

    Quote:
    Pink Panther said:
    Just been for a test drive in a manual 997S back to back with an auto C4S to help me make my mind up about which gearbox to go on my 997S order.

    Before the drive I was 99% sure I wanted a manual but I was so impressed by the auto's kickdown speed that I am now 50 50.

    Auto impressions:
    1. Kick down speed very quick
    2. Box seems reluctant to drop a gear unless you floor it.
    3. Manual mode was easy to use - but do people bother ?

    Manual impressions:
    1. First gear was notchy
    2. Smooth changes
    3. Long travel on clutch

    On paper the performance of the auto box is quite a bit less, eroding the performance advantage of the 997S over the standard 997. However, when you aren't sure what speed you are going and want to select the optimum gear for a burst of acceleration, the auto knows exactly which gear is optimum for maximum acceleration whereas with a manual you will have to make a best guess.

    Any regrets from members who have gone for auto ?



    have you tested other "auto trannys" such as SMG's and MB 7G?

    can you post impressions as well?

    Re: Manual vs Auto

    good choice PINK you wont regret for sure

    Re: Manual vs Auto

    SMG - I have this on my M3 CSL and think it is the best thing since sliced bread. It has some way to go on refinement (ie occaisional clunk noises) but is otherwise excellent.

    AMG 5G auto with steering wheel switches - kick down is slow but changes are very smooth. Nice feature to prepare kick down by holding auto lever to left which selects kick down gear before you need it (useful for preparing to overtake). Switches on steering wheel a waste of time. Not tried 7G.

    Audi DSG - technically better on paper and no performance loss over manual but kick down takes ages (ie you are in third and DSG has 4th ready for next change but you want 2nd)

    Porsche Auto - fastest kick down. C4S reluctant to change down unless you floor it. I'm told 997 is more willing to change down if you press throttle 3/4 down. Personally I prefer paddles behind wheel to switches on front of steering wheel.

    read the article

    Pink Panther, Read the Excellence article. As I mentioned they reviewed the Carrera with a manual. They are a benchmark mag, exclusively Porsche.

    I checked around and they don't seem to have a website. You want this april 2005 issue. Theiur number for orders is 415-382-0580.

    Aw sheeet, you're in the UK, will cost a few bucks more, but the WAIT is longer. Anyway, it's worth it if you have the time.

    Re: Manual vs Auto

    Quote:
    Pink Panther said:
    I will enjoy refining my skills to master this type of gearbox and learning to toe/heel in order to recreate the satisfying downshift throttle blip I get on my M3 CSL.

    Many thanks for all your input which helped me to see things clearly.



    This is one of the most enjoyable things I like about my 997S. Because of the exhaust note (and how loud it gets), I love to blip the throttle as I'm approaching a turn with a heel-toe. The sound and the feel as you execute the maneuver is very satisfying. Trust me, you'll enjoy the manual and not regret it.

    Re: Manual vs Auto

    The fact taht this thread has split into several factions jsut proves what Carlos said about 20 posts ago...pick the transmission that suits YOUR goals for the car.

    As for me, 69boss has summed it up perfectly:

    "Yes, there's a huge market for paddle-shift F1-style gearboxes. But I'm not in that market, and never will be. It's one thing to make something better, it's another thing to take away a primary driving interface. Racing is about ultimate efficiency. But personal driving is about enjoyment. I enjoy being in total control of my machine, and direct control of power delivery is by far one of the most visceral aspects of driving pleasure and SATISFACTION."

    Although not everyone may be able to understand this, some of us actaully ENJOY shifting, even if it is 2 or 3 tenths of a second slower in the 1/4 mile. If you happen to get more pleasure from the knowledge of being maximally efficient with a different trnsmission, so be it. For me the car's primary purpose is to provide me with emotional pleasure, and the manual transmission is a big part of that.

    mcdelaug

    Re: Manual vs Auto

    I'll order the Excellence magazine once they wake up over there.

    How do you toe heel in the 997 ? Heel on brake and blip with toe I assume ?

    Re: Manual vs Auto

    MMD, web site is www.excellence-mag.com

    Re: Manual vs Auto

    Quote:
    Pink Panther said:
    How do you toe heel in the 997 ? Heel on brake and blip with toe I assume ?



    Forefoot/toes on the brake and invert the ankle to blip with the lateral heel is what works for me on the 996.

    Re: Manual vs Auto

    Quote:
    Pink Panther said:
    I'll order the Excellence magazine once they wake up over there.

    How do you toe heel in the 997 ? Heel on brake and blip with toe I assume ?



    For me, I actually use the right edge of my foot to blip the throttle, keeping the rest of the foot on the right edge of the brake pedal. On the 997, the throttle is more recessed than the brake pedal so it's harder to use the heel on the throttle (without twisting your ankle .) Hope this makes sense!

    Re: Manual vs Auto

    It depends on how big your clod-hoppers are!!! My size 12 Red Wing boots easily span from the brake pedal to the gas pedal simply by using the LH edge of my show for throttle modulation.

    Re: Manual vs Auto

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:
    It depends on how big your clod-hoppers are!!! My size 12 Red Wing boots easily span from the brake pedal to the gas pedal simply by using the LH edge of my show for throttle modulation.



    I agree. However, the lateral room available in the pedal box and calf-room depleted by the console can have an effect here. It all depends on where the brake pedal height settles to when decelerating at race pace.

    If the brake pedal settles too high, one cannot roll over one's foot onto the gas enough without one's calf having a limiting collision with the console. This requires a very talented ankle to overcome, and can be quite tiresome after a few laps.


    If the brake pedal settles too low, the right-most part of the drivers shoe will be below the left-most lip of the gas pedal and unable to grab any part of the pedal upon which to roll over.

    Pedals adjusted to somewhere in-between are just right.

    Re: Console confinement -- That's why the GT2/3 has a "console delete" option.

    Re: Manual vs Auto

    That's when a good sturdy boot, IRONICALLY, comes in handy. The rigid sole makes it easier to modulate pressure in either direction than a soft shoe. I can angle my ankle pretty well, but then again, my wife is always telling me how agile I am....

     
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