Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks - Page1

Feb 28, 2005 6:24:00 PM

Gint (CT): Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 14, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2003

Ford GT RMS Problems...

This report was in todays e-mail'd Automotive News (2/28/05) edition. Anyone have a subscription to post the whole article?

"Oil leak is new glitch for Ford GT
Automaker resurrects 'Speedi-Sleeve' to address rare problem
Ford Motor Co. is using a time-tested but unusual repair method to fix an engine oil leak in its flagship GT sports car. It is telling dealership mechanics to install a "Speedi-Sleeve" to stop oil from leaking from the crankshaft rear seal."
View story

Next
Threads

Feb 28, 2005 6:54:23 PM

ben, lj: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1373, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2003; Reply to: Gint (CT)

Re: Ford GT RMS Problems...

Quote:
Gint (CT) said:
This report was in todays e-mail'd Automotive News (2/28/05) edition. Anyone have a subscription to post the whole article?

"Oil leak is new glitch for Ford GT
Automaker resurrects 'Speedi-Sleeve' to address rare problem
Ford Motor Co. is using a time-tested but unusual repair method to fix an engine oil leak in its flagship GT sports car. It is telling dealership mechanics to install a "Speedi-Sleeve" to stop oil from leaking from the crankshaft rear seal."
View story

At least Ford admits it! Porsche is on the 9th model year of the Boxster/911 motor and not only have they failed to fix the RMS leak, they don't even admit it's a defect.

Next
Threads

Feb 28, 2005 8:12:10 PM

Ryan in SD: Senior; Loc: San Diego; Posts: 604, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 14, 2004; Reply to: ben, lj

Re: Ford GT RMS Problems...

The list keeps growing with this car, whats next?

Next
Threads

Feb 28, 2005 9:43:55 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Ryan in SD

Re: Fords Statements on Ford GT Problems...

AMY WILSON | Automotive News
Posted Date: 2/28/05
DETROIT -- Ford Motor Co. is using a time-tested but unusual repair method to fix an engine oil leak in its flagship GT sports car. It is telling dealership mechanics to install a "Speedi-Sleeve" to stop oil from leaking from the crankshaft rear seal. It is one of several fixes being prescribed for the GT when the car goes into the shop for a major suspension recall.

The sleeves have been used for decades, largely on older, high-mileage cars or those undergoing an overhaul. It's extremely unusual for them to be used by a manufacturer on a new car, sources say.

"They work, but, gosh, it shouldn't happen," one Ford dealer says. "It's highly unusual. If I were the owner of a $150,000 race car, I wouldn't be happy about it."

The engine oil leak, which is caused by an improper finish on the crankshaft, isn't a problem in all cars, Ford spokeswoman Kristen Kinley says. The crankshaft finish has been fixed for cars in production.

For vehicles with the problem, the Speedi-Sleeve will close any gaps that might allow engine oil to leak. The device is a metal band that fits over the end of the crankshaft, increasing its diameter and making a tighter fit against the seal. The Speedi-Sleeve itself is a low-cost part but requires several hours of labor to install.

Until the GT, the sleeves hadn't been used by Ford, at least in recent years, Kinley says. She says it's uncommon because Ford hasn't experienced this type of leak during that period.

While all GTs will get new suspension control arms, not all of the cars are expected to need the other repairs. In addition to two recalls, Ford has issued nine technical service bulletins and one special service message on the GT. Problems range from the leaking crankshaft seal and blemishes on seat belt webbing to a rattle in the upper steering column and leaking power steering fluid.

"All of our customers are important, but (with) this one, we're really giving them the white-glove treatment," Kinley says. "We had an issue with the control arm. We don't want to take the chance we're going to have an issue with anything else."

Ford recalled the vehicle Dec. 16, ordering owners not to drive it after a crack was discovered in a test vehicle's control arm. A recall for a fuel tank vapor leak that affected about 45 cars was issued at the same time.

Ford assembled 448 cars before the recall; 111 were in owners' possession. Thirty-five cars have been repaired. Ford resumed limited GT assembly the week of Feb. 7. Ford aims to complete the suspension recall during the next few weeks. Eight control arms in each car are being swapped out from a cast part to a forged part.

The other service advisories are expected to affect a much smaller number of cars.

Next
Threads

Feb 28, 2005 11:10:26 PM

Ryan in SD: Senior; Loc: San Diego; Posts: 604, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 14, 2004; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Fords Statements on Ford GT Problems...

Poor Clarkson, maybe that will teach him to stop crashing old classic 911s into walls.

Next
Threads

Mar 1, 2005 12:02:51 AM

ben, lj: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1373, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2003; Reply to: Ryan in SD

Re: Fords Statements on Ford GT Problems...

Quote:
Ryan in SD said:
Poor Clarkson, maybe that will teach him to stop crashing old classic 911s into walls.

Yes, but he should instead crash 97 to present 911s and Boxsters since they have the same problem the Ford GT does only Porsche doesn't admit it or come up with a solution like Ford did so quickly and admireably.

Next
Threads

Mar 1, 2005 12:34:19 AM

ben, lj: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1373, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2003; Reply to: Gint (CT)

Re: Ford GT RMS Problems...

Quote:
Gint (CT) said:
This report was in todays e-mail'd Automotive News (2/28/05) edition. Anyone have a subscription to post the whole article?

"Oil leak is new glitch for Ford GT
Automaker resurrects 'Speedi-Sleeve' to address rare problem
Ford Motor Co. is using a time-tested but unusual repair method to fix an engine oil leak in its flagship GT sports car. It is telling dealership mechanics to install a "Speedi-Sleeve" to stop oil from leaking from the crankshaft rear seal."
View story

Welcome ben, lj. [Logout] My Home . Main Index . Search . Active Topics
Gallery . Who's Online . FAQ . Calendar

FORUM >> Porsche 997 Board Previous Index Next Threaded

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1

John SF 2005 997 S
Old Hand

Reged: Fri
Posts: 218
Loc: San Francisco CA USA 997s RECALL - Crank case machined 1mm too thin?
#81523 - Tue Mar 01 2005 12:56 AM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply

I took my car in FINALLY to have the airbag light fixed and reset and was told there is a recall on my 997S. Basically he said part of the crank case may have been machined 1mm too thin at one end and they have to pull the transmission and check it. If it is the wrong measurment then they have to install some kind of a spacer.

I'm not a transmission expert, so I maybe someone else can look up the details and post them. Did not sound TOO serious, but I don't like the idea of pulling the transmission out. Just never good.

Anyone else have this issue and have it fixed yet?

Airbag issue he said should just take a few hours to change out a connector...

I'll keep you posted.

Next
Threads

Mar 1, 2005 1:29:22 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: ben, lj

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Are obviously crap when it comes to the older air coolded case and seperate cylinders. I have little faith in modern German automobile engineering design. They've gotten arrogant and cheap at the same time.

Im not sure what the CGT V10 is like but its gotta be really good, I hope for 500K.

The m96/97 are "Cheap Charlie" Porsche motors compared to the old ones.

Next
Threads

Mar 1, 2005 2:34:49 AM

Ryan in SD: Senior; Loc: San Diego; Posts: 604, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 14, 2004; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:

The m96/97 are "Cheap Charlie" Porsche motors compared to the old ones.

Cheap as in its materials or machining or both?

Next
Threads

Mar 1, 2005 3:02:40 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Ryan in SD

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Quote:
Ryan in SD said:
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:

The m96/97 are "Cheap Charlie" Porsche motors compared to the old ones.

Cheap as in its materials or machining or both?

Porsche does not actually build the blocks. I believe Thyssen does, so somewhere in the chain, Quality Assurance is failing. It is disconcerting that after so many years,
such a stupid problem remains. Either Porsche just accepts whatever Thyssen sells them, or Porsche just doesnt care and counts on volume to pay for defect issues with customers.

The design itself is sub par compared to earlier Porsche flat 6 motors and thats why Porsche relies on their previous designs for hi output applications.

As far as materials go, I cant comment because the quality problems seem more of a process defect than a materials defect. But who knows? It could be a combination of both.

Next
Threads

Mar 1, 2005 4:44:07 AM

teflon: Co-Pilot; Loc: US , United States; Posts: 216, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 13, 2003; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

According to a Feb. 2005 article in Panorama, the aluminum engine block is supplied by Kolbenschmidt Pierburg.

Thyssenkrupp supplies the front and rear axle assmeblies and Bilstein (which is now owned by Thyssenkrupp) supplies the damptronic adaptive suspension and shock abosrbers.

Greg A

Next
Threads

Mar 1, 2005 6:56:29 AM

Ryan in SD: Senior; Loc: San Diego; Posts: 604, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 14, 2004; Reply to: teflon

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

I was under the impression that they were doing good aside from RMS. Every change seemed to make the engine faster and more efficient but now that I look at the difference between the 996 and 997 I can get an idea why the power hasnt changed much and apparently the RMS issues havnt changed much either. This makes me want to do some research...
And for the Ford GT, I really hope its the last major problem. Imagine Just buying one of these to learn you've got a bad oil leak and potentially dangerous suspension incident on its way.

Next
Threads

Mar 1, 2005 2:48:28 PM

ben, lj: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1373, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2003; Reply to: Ryan in SD

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Quote:
Ryan in SD said:
And for the Ford GT, I really hope its the last major problem. Imagine Just buying one of these to learn you've got a bad oil leak and potentially dangerous suspension incident on its way.

i don't know about "on the way". they found the cracked control arm on a test car with over 100k miles on it! don't see too many modern day pcars with those kind of miles.

Next
Threads

Mar 1, 2005 3:37:18 PM

Gint (CT): Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 14, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2003; Reply to: Ryan in SD

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Personally, I feel that the design of these engines are flawed somewhere thus causing the qc problems down the road. You can always change suppliers and you can always swap out assembly workers very easily, but to have PAG admit (like Ben said) to an engineering problem (right!) and try to fix a design error (whoa!) would take many many years if not more. If you really want that first-year redesign at least wait 1 year.

Next
Threads

Mar 1, 2005 8:13:45 PM

MAVERICK: Veteran; Loc: Cincinnati, OH (USA) , United States; Posts: 1145, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2004; Reply to: Gint (CT)

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Quote:
Gint (CT) said:
but to have PAG admit (like Ben said) to an engineering problem (right!) and try to fix a design error (whoa!) would take many many years if not more.

Why will they not admit it? Pride? Money? Reputation? Fear?

Next
Threads

Mar 1, 2005 8:50:11 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

I do not agree at all. Especially the M97 has been improved substantially, it is almost as reliable and durable as the 996 GT3/Turbo/GT2 engine type. Porsche is rumoured to offer a 380 HP powerkit engine soon from the M97 engine, same power as on the normally aspirated GT3 "old design" engine.

RMS issues can appear on ALL cars, this is nothing specific to Porsche. Yes, there has been an issue with the RMS on certain 996 models but as far as I heard not due to bad engine design but to bad engine assembly processes (human error).
Also look at the Cayenne engines...bulletproof.
I talked to a lot of owners and especially dealers/Porsche mechanics and all agree that Porsche quality has improved over the past years, especially since the first 996/Boxster showed up. And if you think that older Porsches were more reliable, well...maybe YOU were lucky.

Next
Threads

Mar 1, 2005 9:25:08 PM

ben, lj: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1373, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

FWIW, re: the chronic leak on both boxster than post 993 911s:

http://www.ppbb.com/scgi-bin/boards/986/museum.pl?read=747797

Next
Threads

Mar 1, 2005 11:09:23 PM

Ryan in SD: Senior; Loc: San Diego; Posts: 604, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 14, 2004; Reply to: ben, lj

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Quote:
ben, lj said:
Quote:
Ryan in SD said:
And for the Ford GT, I really hope its the last major problem. Imagine Just buying one of these to learn you've got a bad oil leak and potentially dangerous suspension incident on its way.

i don't know about "on the way". they found the cracked control arm on a test car with over 100k miles on it! don't see too many modern day pcars with those kind of miles.

My thoughts are, "how can you enjoy a car that has already had 2 major problems? It would be lurking in the back of my mind while trying to have fun with it." Lets say another major problem arises, then as an owner you probably wouldn't feel very safe while trying to enjoy its enourmous abilitys.

http://www.automotive.com/2005/12/ford/gt/recalls/

"potential units affected" ...sounds like a guess.

How much faith would you be able to put in this car?

Next
Threads

Mar 2, 2005 12:26:19 AM

ben, lj: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1373, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2003; Reply to: Ryan in SD

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Quote:
Ryan in SD said:
Quote:
ben, lj said:
Quote:
Ryan in SD said:
And for the Ford GT, I really hope its the last major problem. Imagine Just buying one of these to learn you've got a bad oil leak and potentially dangerous suspension incident on its way.

i don't know about "on the way". they found the cracked control arm on a test car with over 100k miles on it! don't see too many modern day pcars with those kind of miles.

My thoughts are, "how can you enjoy a car that has already had 2 major problems? It would be lurking in the back of my mind while trying to have fun with it." Lets say another major problem arises, then as an owner you probably wouldn't feel very safe while trying to enjoy its enourmous abilitys.

http://www.automotive.com/2005/12/ford/gt/recalls/

"potential units affected" ...sounds like a guess.

How much faith would you be able to put in this car?

A lot more faith than I'd be putting in Pcars if I went by recalls and TSBs issued as an indicator of future problems. What I would be thrilled about is that Ford doesn't hide design flaws from it's customers, but instead quickly designs fixes and let's customers know about the need for them to be completed. At Porsche, everything is "normal" until so many people experience the same thing and get pissed off enough for them to acknowledge it isn't really "normal".

Next
Threads

Mar 2, 2005 12:44:26 AM

Jeff (in SF): Pilot; Loc: SF, CA, USA , United States; Posts: 340, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 13, 2003; Reply to: ben, lj

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Quote:
ben, lj said:
What I would be thrilled about is that Ford doesn't hide design flaws from it's customers, but instead quickly designs fixes and let's customers know about the need for them to be completed.

You're not really serious are you? Remember "Firestone"? I'm sure you remember the debacle that both Ford and Firestone conspired to keep from the public for so long until many customers had been affected by a life threatening situation (blow outs). How many people have died or been hurt by the RMS? It's an inconvenience to be sure especially on such an expensive car but the repair process isn't too painful when compared to the enjoyment you get out of the car.

I too am puzzled how my local dealer can successfully fix a leaking RMS while the factory with all its resources continues to have issues after all these years.

Next
Threads

Mar 2, 2005 12:45:30 AM

ben, lj: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1373, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2003; Reply to: Jeff (in SF)

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Quote:
Jeff (in SF) said:
Quote:
ben, lj said:
What I would be thrilled about is that Ford doesn't hide design flaws from it's customers, but instead quickly designs fixes and let's customers know about the need for them to be completed.

Are you serious? Can you say "Firestone"? I'm sure you remember the debacle that both Ford and Firestone conspired to keep from the public for so long until many customers had been affected by a life threatening situation (blow outs). How many people have died or been hurt by the RMS?

Looks like they have at least learned from their mistakes in treating customers. Bottomline is Ford is experiencing the same problem Porsche has for 9 model years. Ford found, admitted, fixed, and notified months after production while Porsche has not for 9 years - and counting.

BTW, you forgot about the Pinto.

Next
Threads

Mar 2, 2005 1:07:22 AM

Jeff (in SF): Pilot; Loc: SF, CA, USA , United States; Posts: 340, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 13, 2003; Reply to: ben, lj

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Quote:
ben, lj said:
Quote:
Jeff (in SF) said:
Quote:
ben, lj said:
What I would be thrilled about is that Ford doesn't hide design flaws from it's customers, but instead quickly designs fixes and let's customers know about the need for them to be completed.

Are you serious? Can you say "Firestone"? I'm sure you remember the debacle that both Ford and Firestone conspired to keep from the public for so long until many customers had been affected by a life threatening situation (blow outs). How many people have died or been hurt by the RMS?

Looks like they have at least learned from their mistakes in treating customers. Bottomline is Ford is experiencing the same problem Porsche has for 9 model years. Ford found, admitted, fixed, and notified months after production while Porsche has not for 9 years - and counting.

BTW, you forgot about the Pinto.

Nope - I remember the Pinto but I don't really remember the PR & news around the explosions on rear impact. I think the issue for both Ford and Porsche is $$. I'd guess that the issue with the RMS might have something to do with a tool that they use to build a particular part. These tools can cost a LOT of money and Porsche MAY have determined that the cost of replacing the tool is more than the RMS warranty claims they have to pay for.

Consider that both of the issues we bring up for Ford involved people dying - hard to defer to the bean counters when lives are involved. Porsche too recently did a recall on the cab tops for certain 993 models. Why? I'm guessing it's an issue of lives. Again, how many people have died from RMS? Now maybe if someone had a toddler playing in the garage and they started licking up Mobil 1.....

Next
Threads

Mar 2, 2005 1:23:10 AM

ben, lj: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1373, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2003; Reply to: Jeff (in SF)

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Quote:
Jeff (in SF) said:
Quote:
ben, lj said:
Quote:
Jeff (in SF) said:
Quote:
ben, lj said:
What I would be thrilled about is that Ford doesn't hide design flaws from it's customers, but instead quickly designs fixes and let's customers know about the need for them to be completed.

Are you serious? Can you say "Firestone"? I'm sure you remember the debacle that both Ford and Firestone conspired to keep from the public for so long until many customers had been affected by a life threatening situation (blow outs). How many people have died or been hurt by the RMS?

Looks like they have at least learned from their mistakes in treating customers. Bottomline is Ford is experiencing the same problem Porsche has for 9 model years. Ford found, admitted, fixed, and notified months after production while Porsche has not for 9 years - and counting.

BTW, you forgot about the Pinto.

Nope - I remember the Pinto but I don't really remember the PR & news around the explosions on rear impact. I think the issue for both Ford and Porsche is $$. I'd guess that the issue with the RMS might have something to do with a tool that they use to build a particular part. These tools can cost a LOT of money and Porsche MAY have determined that the cost of replacing the tool is more than the RMS warranty claims they have to pay for.

Consider that both of the issues we bring up for Ford involved people dying - hard to defer to the bean counters when lives are involved. Porsche too recently did a recall on the cab tops for certain 993 models. Why? I'm guessing it's an issue of lives. Again, how many people have died from RMS? Now maybe if someone had a toddler playing in the garage and they started licking up Mobil 1.....

No one died from BMW's lame M3 motor design but they extended the warranty to 10 yr/100k which is what Porsche needs to do on the RMS. This won't take away the PIA aspect of having to deal with it, but it will put the cost on whom it belongs. And while it may seem "persuasive" to bring it non-relevant Ford past behavior, with RMS failure we're talking apple to apple issues with apple to apple reactions to them. And bringing in past behavior or different issues merely displays how weak Porsche is currently looking in comparion on this current issue.

While we're talking about current apple to apple comparisons of current customer treatment, Porsche told me to [censored] off re: my worn out tires at 6k on our $100k conservatively driven Cayenne Turbo. The dealer said 10 to 12k is "normal" and PCNA claims my 6k is "normal". Ford on the other hand without even asking:

http://www.986host.com/gallery/benkea/fordwarrext

Next
Threads

Mar 2, 2005 6:21:58 AM

RossN: Junior; Loc: Here and There , United States; Posts: 81, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 30, 2003; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Fords Statements on Ford GT Problems...

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
....
Ford assembled 448 cars before the recall; 111 were in owners' possession. .....

I see the value of any serial number below 449 being less than stellar.

First year production always bring problems no matter the car.

Here are some details about the Control Arm issue, http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101849

Next
Threads

Mar 2, 2005 9:42:36 AM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: ben, lj

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

This is ridiculous, lets not be so naive... on one side we have only 448 units, a flag ship model, and with a simple fix, and on the other dozens of thousands of units with no fix unless engine redesign&replacement.

Yeah they are really similar scenarios, Ford is soooo altruistic for issuing a quick fix on 448 of their supercar model, pffff... even FIAT would of done the same in that case, but lets not compare it to Porsche's RMS issue which is compeltely different in terms of cause, fix, quantity and economic repercusions. Porsche has no excuse for not fixing the RMS, but lets not use Ford's scenario to preach about the evilness of Porsche, the anti-christ of auto makers, bla, bla, bla... lets stay objective.

Next
Threads

Mar 2, 2005 2:43:08 PM

teflon: Co-Pilot; Loc: US , United States; Posts: 216, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 13, 2003; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Ben,

BMW's M3 engine warranty is 6yrs/100,000 miles.

Greg A

Next
Threads

Mar 2, 2005 3:55:50 PM

ben, lj: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1373, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2003; Reply to: teflon

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Quote:
teflon said:
Ben,

BMW's M3 engine warranty is 6yrs/100,000 miles.

Greg A

we had an effected 03 and i thought it was 10/100k?

Next
Threads

Mar 2, 2005 3:57:59 PM

ben, lj: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1373, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2003; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
This is ridiculous, lets not be so naive... on one side we have only 448 units, a flag ship model, and with a simple fix, and on the other dozens of thousands of units with no fix unless engine redesign&replacement.

Yeah they are really similar scenarios, Ford is soooo altruistic for issuing a quick fix on 448 of their supercar model, pffff... even FIAT would of done the same in that case, but lets not compare it to Porsche's RMS issue which is compeltely different in terms of cause, fix, quantity and economic repercusions. Porsche has no excuse for not fixing the RMS, but lets not use Ford's scenario to preach about the evilness of Porsche, the anti-christ of auto makers, bla, bla, bla... lets stay objective.

Carlos, my bringing up Porsche's gross failure to even admit publically the problem has been in direct response to Pcar owners throwing up the Ford recall as a "haha" on Ford. I think Porsche's lame treatment of their customers over 9 model years for a very similar issue makes it more of a "haha" on Pcar owners who [censored] on Ford over the issue.

Next
Threads

Mar 2, 2005 9:00:24 PM

Atlantis: Senior; Loc: Warwickshire, England , United Kingdom; Posts: 550, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2003; Reply to: ben, lj

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

And the Porsche RMS debacle continues. I've just seen the first reported case of a 987 Boxster 2.7 RMS replacement on a UK board. Car was 6 weeks old and had covered only 1400 miles.

Should also add that the Porsche Club GB have recently launched an RMS survey of Boxster owners (now extended to 996 owners) and the results so far have been shocking. I'll try to find the exact % of reported failures in a bit, but it was way higher than anyone expected. RMS failures are a major issue for Porsche owners in the UK, as we only get a 2 year warranty and it's becoming increasingly difficult to get RMS failures fixed outside this period as goodwill.

Edit: Exact numbers:

Quote:
Of the 1000 odd forms sent out to Boxster owners on file, 524 replied (a high number, indicative of high importance!, note that some are no longer owners)

Of these, 24% had experienced one or more RMS failure. Far too high, that's why I lobbied so hard with Porsche Cars (also mentioning the small number of catastrophic engine failures)

The highest number of RMS failures were in 2000 and 2001 model year cars - 49% of 2001 Boxster S. The RMS usually showed up in 1-3 years of new.

Next
Threads

Mar 3, 2005 7:48:06 AM

Yargk: Pilot; Loc: SF Bay Area, CA, USA; Posts: 486, Gallery; Registered on: May 18, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Quote:
RC said:
I do not agree at all. Especially the M97 has been improved substantially, it is almost as reliable and durable as the 996 GT3/Turbo/GT2 engine type. Porsche is rumoured to offer a 380 HP powerkit engine soon from the M97 engine, same power as on the normally aspirated GT3 "old design" engine.

RMS issues can appear on ALL cars, this is nothing specific to Porsche. Yes, there has been an issue with the RMS on certain 996 models but as far as I heard not due to bad engine design but to bad engine assembly processes (human error).
Also look at the Cayenne engines...bulletproof.
I talked to a lot of owners and especially dealers/Porsche mechanics and all agree that Porsche quality has improved over the past years, especially since the first 996/Boxster showed up. And if you think that older Porsches were more reliable, well...maybe YOU were lucky.

SC motors will run a half million miles without a rebuild. How many will the M97 run?

Top
Threads

Board	Subject	Last post	Views	Replies
Porsche	SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)	4/17/24 7:16 AM Gnil	780771	1798
Porsche	Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos)	4/7/24 11:48 AM Boxster Coupe GTS	442530	565
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021)	5/12/23 12:11 PM W8MM	263318	288
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022	3/12/24 8:28 AM DJM48	261646	323
Porsche	The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche	1/30/24 9:18 AM RC	85776	45
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift	3/15/24 1:23 PM CGX car nut	5907	50
Porsche	The moment I've been waiting for...	2/1/24 7:01 PM Pilot	881392	1364
Porsche	992 GT3	7/23/23 7:01 PM Grant	818772	3868
Porsche	Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!	2/10/24 4:43 PM nberry	392074	1526
Porsche	GT4RS	4/21/24 11:50 AM mcdelaug	392028	1454
Others	Tesla 2 the new thread	12/13/23 2:48 PM CGX car nut	374796	2401
Porsche	Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design	7/3/23 12:30 PM Porker	369370	797
Porsche	Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour	4/11/24 12:32 PM Ferdie	289869	668
Porsche	Collected my 997 GTS today	10/19/23 7:06 PM CGX car nut	261809	812
Lambo	Huracán EVO STO	7/30/23 6:59 PM mcdelaug	240671	346
Lotus	Lotus Emira	6/25/23 2:53 PM Enmanuel	231150	101
Others	Corvette C8	10/16/23 3:24 PM Enmanuel	221581	488
Others	Gordon Murray - T.50	11/22/23 10:27 AM mcdelaug	169820	387
Porsche	Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS	6/11/23 5:13 PM CGX car nut	141575	144
BMW M	2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now	12/29/23 9:04 AM RC	118087	303
Motor Sp.	2023 Formula One	12/19/23 5:38 AM Whoopsy	109231	685
Porsche	2022 992 Safari Model	3/7/24 4:22 PM Whoopsy	84567	239
AMG	Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758	2/23/24 10:03 PM blueflame	75341	297
Porsche	992 GT3 RS	3/3/24 7:22 PM Whoopsy	54157	314
Motor Sp.	Porsche 963	3/16/24 9:27 PM Whoopsy	25430	237
Ferrari	Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6)	1/21/24 4:29 PM GT-Boy	21219	103
BMW M	2022 BMW M5 CS	4/8/24 1:43 PM Ferdie	19584	140
AMG	G63 sold out	9/15/23 7:38 PM Nico997	16637	120
AMG	[2022] Mercedes-AMG SL	4/23/24 1:24 PM RC	13906	225
Motor Sp.	24-Hour race Nürburgring 2018	5/25/23 10:42 PM Grant	11295	55

Crown

Forum - Thread

Ford GT RMS Problems...

Re: Ford GT RMS Problems...

Re: Ford GT RMS Problems...

Re: Fords Statements on Ford GT Problems...

Re: Fords Statements on Ford GT Problems...

Re: Fords Statements on Ford GT Problems...

Re: Ford GT RMS Problems...

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Re: Fords Statements on Ford GT Problems...

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Re: M96/97 Engine Blocks

Forum

Boards