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Dec 14, 2004 5:45:02 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: 5Gear 430 video
You remember Vicky's test of the Challenge Stardale, don't you 
... This guy apparently takes over the current Ferrari tests now in Fifth Gear (I believe he has done some proffesional racing if I'm not mistaken).
The F430 seems like its going to be a sensational sportcar IMO
Ferrari is not my peronal top of the list in sportcar philospophy but credit needs to be given here, good job for Ferrari. The only problem I see is the "drop your pants and bend over" pricing 
definately pay much more than what you get and you have to swallow your pride somewhat when purchasing but its take it or leave it, no other manufacturer offers the same package so...
... This guy apparently takes over the current Ferrari tests now in Fifth Gear (I believe he has done some proffesional racing if I'm not mistaken).The F430 seems like its going to be a sensational sportcar IMO
Ferrari is not my peronal top of the list in sportcar philospophy but credit needs to be given here, good job for Ferrari. The only problem I see is the "drop your pants and bend over" pricing definately pay much more than what you get and you have to swallow your pride somewhat when purchasing but its take it or leave it, no other manufacturer offers the same package so...
Dec 14, 2004 6:31:38 PM
- temm
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Carlos from Spain
Re: 5Gear 430 video
Quote:
carlos fromspain said:
This guy apparently takes over the current Ferrari tests now in Fifth Gear (I believe he has done some proffesional racing if I'm not mistaken).
You are absolutely right Carlos, Jason Plato has done some professional racing:
2002 Ascar Championship, finishing the series 3rd Overall and winning the Mintex Most Popular Driver Award.
2001 British Touring Car Champion, BRDC Silver Star Winner.
BTCC Manufacturers and Teams Titles with Vauxhall and 888 Motorsport.
Nominated Autosport National Racing Driver of the Year.
8 Wins, 17 Podiums, 7 Poles, 11 F/Laps.
2000 British Touring Car Championship with Vauxhall 888 Motorsport.
5th Overall. 3 Wins, 5 Podiums, 2 Poles.
1000kms Bathurst with Holden Racing Team. 10th Overall.
1999 British Touring Car Championship with Williams Renault Nescafe Blend 37.
5th Overall. 1 Win, 3 Podiums, 1 Pole.
1998 British Touring Car Championship with Williams Renault Nescafe Blend 37.
5th Overall. 1 Win, 6 Podiums, 2 Poles.
1997 British Touring Car Championship with Williams Renault.
3rd Overall. 2 Wins, 9 Podiums, 4 Poles.
Standing Record Pole Position for 3 debut races.
1000 kms Bathurst with Williams Renault Merpati ANZ, retired from the lead.
Fastest Lap and Standing Super Touring Lap Record.
Nominated Autosport National Racing Driver of the Year.
1996 Elf Renault Spider UK Cup Champion.
Winner European Renault Spider Race.
Nominated Autosport Club Racing Driver of the Year.
11 Wins, 2 Podiums, 13 poles, 9 F/Laps.
1995 3 Races Formula Renault Sport European Championship.
1994 British Touring Car Test Driver - Nissan Old Spice Racing
1993 British Formula Vauxhall Championship - Martin Donnely Talking Pages - 5th Overall
1992 British Formula 3 Championhip - Works Duckhams Van Diemen
1991 European Formula Renault Champion - Works Duckhams Van Diemen.
British Formula Renault Championship - Works Duckhams Van Diemen 4th Overall. Nominated Autosport Club Racing Driver of the Year.
10 Wins, 9 Poles, 11 F/Laps.
1990 Car Racing Debut - British Formula Renault Championship - Manor Motorsport.
5th Overall. 1 Win, 3 Podiums, 1 Pole, 4 F/Laps
1989 Winfield Pilote Elf School - 2nd Place Graduate
1980 thru 1987 Karting. Internationally from 1983.
1983 Junior World 'Grand Prix' Champion
Multiple British Kart Champion
Multiple British Kart Team Member
So I guess Fifth Gear feels that he (like Tiff) has more cred than Vicky...
Thank you for the video J Seven
Dec 14, 2004 7:36:49 PM
- WF
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Carlos from Spain
Re: 5Gear 430 video
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carlos fromspain said:
You remember Vicky's test of the Challenge Stardale, don't you
Sure it was the Stradali video which still runs thru my head on grey days like we have here
. Ofcourse this Jason is by far the better driver so it's no bad addition to the best mortoringprogram from the UK. I must admit I never was a great fan of the 360 modena; too much an in your face sensation.... no lasting depht in its looks and driving experience, but the 460 seems somehow different (dunnowhy yet). Pricing is really outofthis world, I'm wondering how it will keep it's value in Europe.
Dec 14, 2004 8:04:54 PM
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nberry
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Carlos from Spain
Re: 5Gear 430 video
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carlos fromspain
The only problem I see is the "drop your pants and bend over" pricing
I ordered the 430 and have no idea what it will cost. They still have not priced the car for the US market.
Dec 14, 2004 8:20:46 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Dec 14, 2004 8:40:28 PM
- Grant
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Carlos from Spain
Re: 5Gear 430 video
Quote:
carlos fromspain said:\The only problem I see is the "drop your pants and bend over" pricing
Carlos - I agree about the price, but if you have a high spot in line and can afford to pay the price, it is one of the cheapest sports cars to own in the warranty period, since the car is worth >100% of the price you paid after a year or two (at least in USA). I was in line for the successor to the F360 (now we know it's F430) a couple years ago, but everytime I asked about my position in line they told me the wait would be longer than what it was 6 months earlier. So, I had very little confidence that the process was honest...
Re: 5Gear 430 video
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
carlos fromspain
The only problem I see is the "drop your pants and bend over" pricing
I ordered the 430 and have no idea what it will cost. They still have not priced the car for the US market.
i GOT MY PRICE TODAY : (belgium) 191.000 EURO (=238.000$)
basic price is 153.670euro (=192.000$)
delivery this month (normally), maybe beginning next month,
Re: 5Gear 430 video
Quote:
Grant said:
I was in line for the successor to the F360 (now we know it's F430) a couple years ago, but everytime I asked about my position in line they told me the wait would be longer than what it was 6 months earlier. So, I had very little confidence that the process was honest...
That was the same experience I had as to how Ferrari dealer's waiting line works. With multitude of Italian flexibility
Dec 14, 2004 9:11:37 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: 5Gear 430 video
Grant,
It doesn't work the same in Europe as in the US, like you and Nick say, if you can get one, you can sell it with low milage afterwards and not loose any money, so its ironically cheap car to own. The problem is playing the ass kissing game to get "in" there and get your hands on one, I for one wouldn't be good at that at all and I see you weren't either since you kept getting bumped downwards in the line
Over here not only do they devaluate since the european market doesn't work that way, its not that hard to get one, new or used, you just need the money, so offer and demand is shifted. But you also you have to consider the maintenace is not only high but in Spain for example you have to take it to Madrid for maintenance or repairs, as in many european countries, ridiculous
so not as appealing.
And in my personal case, though I would enjoy what such a car offers driving wise (not a substitute for Porsche though, and add on), the problem I would have is the inevitable "being the focus of attention while driving" characteristic of such exotic-beautiful-extravagant-flashy cars which would seriously hinder my enjoyment of driving the car
it really ruins it for me, I just want to drive 'em for my own private pleasure, but thats just personal, other may not have that "handicap".
It doesn't work the same in Europe as in the US, like you and Nick say, if you can get one, you can sell it with low milage afterwards and not loose any money, so its ironically cheap car to own. The problem is playing the ass kissing game to get "in" there and get your hands on one, I for one wouldn't be good at that at all
and I see you weren't either since you kept getting bumped downwards in the line Over here not only do they devaluate since the european market doesn't work that way, its not that hard to get one, new or used, you just need the money, so offer and demand is shifted. But you also you have to consider the maintenace is not only high but in Spain for example you have to take it to Madrid for maintenance or repairs, as in many european countries, ridiculous
so not as appealing.And in my personal case, though I would enjoy what such a car offers driving wise (not a substitute for Porsche though, and add on), the problem I would have is the inevitable "being the focus of attention while driving" characteristic of such exotic-beautiful-extravagant-flashy cars which would seriously hinder my enjoyment of driving the car
it really ruins it for me, I just want to drive 'em for my own private pleasure, but thats just personal, other may not have that "handicap".
Dec 14, 2004 10:03:10 PM
- Patriek
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Carlos from Spain
Re: 5Gear 430 video
Quote:
carlos fromspain said:
Grant,
Over here not only do they devaluate since the european market doesn't work that way, its not that hard to get one, new or used, you just need the money, so offer and demand is shifted.
Carlos, in Europe, there is also a long waiting list, maybe not that dramatic as in US, but long enough for sure. So you may have the cash, you will have to wait at least 1 to 2 years now, and the expectations looks not so pretty !!
My (belgium) dealer told me he has a lot of trouble getting cars. (there are no more importers, every dealer buys directly from the fabric)
Dec 14, 2004 10:24:42 PM
- Gary(SF)
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Carlos from Spain
Re: 5Gear 430 video
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carlos fromspain said:
The only problem I see is the "drop your pants and bend over" pricing
Compared to what - a GT2? Check the price of a year-old GT2 against a year-old 360, and project that for the 430, and it won't hurt so bad.
Gary
Re: 5Gear 430 video
Quote:
jennyz said:Quote:
carlos fromspain said:
Grant,
Over here not only do they devaluate since the european market doesn't work that way, its not that hard to get one, new or used, you just need the money, so offer and demand is shifted.
Carlos, in Europe, there is also a long waiting list, maybe not that dramatic as in US, but long enough for sure. So you may have the cash, you will have to wait at least 1 to 2 years now, and the expectations looks not so pretty !!
My (belgium) dealer told me he has a lot of trouble getting cars. (there are no more importers, every dealer buys directly from the fabric)
It is my understanding that in the US, the 430 is sold out for at least three years and possibly four.
Jennyz your price is inclusive of 16% VAT?
BTW, Carlos getting in line to purchase a new Ferrari does not involve kissing butt. It is a business relationship where the buyer becomes a client and not just a customer.There is a difference.
Re: 5Gear 430 video
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
jennyz said:Quote:
Jennyz your price is inclusive of 16% VAT?
It is inclusive 21% VAT
BTW, Carlos getting in line to purchase a new Ferrari does not involve kissing butt. It is a business relationship where the buyer becomes a client and not just a customer.There is a difference.
THAT IS JUST RIGHT !!! for me, my dealer is like a friend to me, and not just a car seller, .... and that's why I will be driving my 430 within a month I hope,
Dec 14, 2004 10:59:34 PM
- Jeff (in SF)
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Re: 5Gear 430 video
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BTW, Carlos getting in line to purchase a new Ferrari does not involve kissing butt. It is a business relationship where the buyer becomes a client and not just a customer.There is a difference.
That sounds a bit odd when you read it a few times. A customer = someone who pays with something (usually money). If you're a client and not a customer, what else are you doing beyond the usual "customer"? Kissing butt perhaps?
Dec 14, 2004 11:07:07 PM
- Patriek
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Re: 5Gear 430 video
Quote:
Jeff (in SF) said:Quote:
BTW, Carlos getting in line to purchase a new Ferrari does not involve kissing butt. It is a business relationship where the buyer becomes a client and not just a customer.There is a difference.
That sounds a bit odd when you read it a few times. A customer = someone who pays with something (usually money). If you're a client and not a customer, what else are you doing beyond the usual "customer"? Kissing butt perhaps?
Jeff, I assume you have NEVER purchased a Ferrari, didn't you !!
Respect,as friendship is nothing like 'kissing butt' ! After a lot years, you get a relationship with your dealer, based on friendship, and the love you both share for Ferrari.
My dealer is not just selling me a new car, but rather gives me the oppertunity (the chance) of owning and driving a Ferrari in the best circomstances. This is what I experience !
Dec 14, 2004 11:23:25 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: 5Gear 430 video
Quote:
jennyz said:Quote:
Jeff (in SF) said:Quote:
BTW, Carlos getting in line to purchase a new Ferrari does not involve kissing butt. It is a business relationship where the buyer becomes a client and not just a customer.There is a difference.
That sounds a bit odd when you read it a few times. A customer = someone who pays with something (usually money). If you're a client and not a customer, what else are you doing beyond the usual "customer"? Kissing butt perhaps?
Jeff, I assume you have NEVER purchased a Ferrari, didn't you !!
pfff.. Jeff was making a joke
Quote:
Respect,as friendship is nothing like 'kissing butt' ! After a lot years, you get a relationship with your dealer, based on friendship, and the love you both share for Ferrari.
My dealer is not just selling me a new car, but rather gives me the oppertunity (the chance) of owning and driving a Ferrari in the best circomstances. This is what I experience !
You are telling us something non-Ferrari owners don't know?
this depends on the dealer and not the make, I have the same relationship with my local BMW, and specially Porsche dealer... matter of fact just today I got a call from my Porche dealer if I wanted to come to a drive & lunch in a nice place he is putting together this saturday with a bunch of other fellow customer-friends. And his love for his marque is not only monetary as in "Omar with the gold chain", he raced 911 RSR's in his time and was a spanish rally champion. So it just depends if you are lucky to have a good person as dealer in your area or not. Seems you do, but take it as grated for the make. And my "kissing ass" commennt reffered to the american Ferrari market and delaership scene and how things work there, specially Cali, and not in Europe. Nick knows what I'm talking about.
Dec 14, 2004 11:29:41 PM
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nberry
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Re: 5Gear 430 video
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Jeff (in SF) said:Quote:
BTW, Carlos getting in line to purchase a new Ferrari does not involve kissing butt. It is a business relationship where the buyer becomes a client and not just a customer.There is a difference.
That sounds a bit odd when you read it a few times. A customer = someone who pays with something (usually money). If you're a client and not a customer, what else are you doing beyond the usual "customer"? Kissing butt perhaps?
Jeff, Jeff. Jeff if you do not understand the difference then I can only assume your not in business for yourself. Do you work for someone? If so ask them regarding the difference.
Dec 15, 2004 2:12:15 AM
- Captain Bady
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Re: 5Gear 430 video
Today, it is very rare to find a dealer that can be a friend. I've had so much experience with dealers and until now I've found one very good, which luckily is Porsche. I don't consider him a friend, but I do consider him someone who gets done what he says every single time. Also his offers are great (e.g. he valued a car with some small mechanical problems at a market price for a Cayenne V6, which is the highest demanded in South of France, plus he made a good discount on the Cayenne at the same time while he had to take the car).
Ferrari dealers are another world. I think you can find a good Ferrari dealer in regions of countries where the population is less and more expanded. Ferrari dealers near big cities normally are passionless!
In what concerns getting a F430, pay from 5000 to 10000 euros either on the pocket of a dealer (which should know you already) either to a non official dealer (from where is much easier to get one), and you will get it within 3 months if not less! At least that how it works in South of France...
Ferrari dealers are another world. I think you can find a good Ferrari dealer in regions of countries where the population is less and more expanded. Ferrari dealers near big cities normally are passionless!
In what concerns getting a F430, pay from 5000 to 10000 euros either on the pocket of a dealer (which should know you already) either to a non official dealer (from where is much easier to get one), and you will get it within 3 months if not less! At least that how it works in South of France...
Dec 15, 2004 3:00:52 AM
- WCH
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Re: 5Gear 430 video
"this depends on the dealer and not the make, I have the same relationship with my local BMW, and specially Porsche dealer... matter of fact just today I got a call from my Porche dealer if I wanted to come to a drive & lunch in a nice place he is putting together this saturday with a bunch of other fellow customer-friends. And his love for his marque is not only monetary as in "Omar with the gold chain", he raced 911 RSR's in his time and was a spanish rally champion. So it just depends if you are lucky to have a good person as dealer in your area or not."
Very well said! My Ferrari dealer is very involved in racing, and has many enthusiasts in the ranks of its mechanics, sales and other staff. During track days and social events I've had the good fortune to become acquainted with most of the dealer's employees: mechanics, part dept, sales, etc. All of these connections & relationships bring me pleasure; if I had found the dealer to be "passionless," I might have gravitated to another marque. I think one reads internet complaints about US Ferrari dealers partly because the affluent tend to have a sense of entitlement: "I have the money, so be a good lad and get me a car." Of course the dealers can see through both obvious flattery ("butt kissing") and condescension and, like all of us, won't be terribly impressed by either.
Just my opinion, one that may be unduly influenced by having dealt only with a great dealer.
Very well said! My Ferrari dealer is very involved in racing, and has many enthusiasts in the ranks of its mechanics, sales and other staff. During track days and social events I've had the good fortune to become acquainted with most of the dealer's employees: mechanics, part dept, sales, etc. All of these connections & relationships bring me pleasure; if I had found the dealer to be "passionless," I might have gravitated to another marque. I think one reads internet complaints about US Ferrari dealers partly because the affluent tend to have a sense of entitlement: "I have the money, so be a good lad and get me a car." Of course the dealers can see through both obvious flattery ("butt kissing") and condescension and, like all of us, won't be terribly impressed by either.
Just my opinion, one that may be unduly influenced by having dealt only with a great dealer.
Dec 15, 2004 4:30:26 AM
- Jeff (in SF)
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Re: 5Gear 430 video
Quote:
Said in your usual condescending tone - I wouldn't expect any less. For your info, I'm in marketing and very well versed in dealing with customers. I'm also a customer of many different businesses (every day and high end alike). I've also been a 'client' of a lawyer. If Ferrari dealers treat their clients the same way many lawyers/law firms do, it's a good thing that Ferrari constrains their production to force people to a small number of dealers.
Q: What's black and brown and looks good on a lawyer?
A: A Rottweiler
Dec 15, 2004 7:15:17 PM
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nberry
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Re: 5Gear 430 video
Quote:
Jeff (in SF) said:Quote:
Said in your usual condescending tone - I wouldn't expect any less. For your info, I'm in marketing and very well versed in dealing with customers. I'm also a customer of many different businesses (every day and high end alike). I've also been a 'client' of a lawyer. If Ferrari dealers treat their clients the same way many lawyers/law firms do, it's a good thing that Ferrari constrains their production to force people to a small number of dealers.
Q: What's black and brown and looks good on a lawyer?
A: A Rottweiler
Jeff do not mistaken exasperation with condescension.
If you are in marketing and do not understand the difference between client and customer, I can only say "I hope you can continue to be successful assuming you are"
Re: 5Gear 430 video
Quote:
nberry said:
Jeff do not mistaken exasperation with condescension.
If you are in marketing and do not understand the difference between client and customer, I can only say "I hope you can continue to be successful assuming you are"
Your explanation of client is one of the reasons I'm into Porsches and not Ferraris, and I'm an aspiring physicist and not a businessman. I realize I'll be poor for that last decision.
Are you sure the difference isn't that with a customer the business tries to screw them over as much as possible and with a client they screw them over just enough so they still come back? (joking, I like being known and having some special privileges with the people I buy from, however others can still get service from those businessmen, they are not taken off waiting lists for example)
Re: 5Gear 430 video
Quote:
temm said:Quote:
carlos fromspain said:
This guy apparently takes over the current Ferrari tests now in Fifth Gear (I believe he has done some proffesional racing if I'm not mistaken).
You are absolutely right Carlos, Jason Plato has done some professional racing:
2002 Ascar Championship, finishing the series 3rd Overall and winning the Mintex Most Popular Driver Award.
2001 British Touring Car Champion, BRDC Silver Star Winner.
BTCC Manufacturers and Teams Titles with Vauxhall and 888 Motorsport.
...
Multiple British Kart Champion
Multiple British Kart Team Member
So I guess Fifth Gear feels that he (like Tiff) has more cred than Vicky...
Thank you for the video J Seven
Maybe Vicky is a bit nicer to look at than Jason - for the majority of viewers - but I give them credit to engage such an professional and highly skilled driver as Plato. Much better and far from the entertainment- and nonsense-mumbling provided by Topgear...
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