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Dec 6, 2002 7:54:16 PM

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , United States; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 10, 2002

Auto Spies perspective

Auto Spies perspective:
I guess it's up to us to be courageous and net it out for the automotive world. This product is a HUGE gamble for Porsche. In our opinion, it will be a lukewarm success at best. It's not a good looking vehicle by any stretch of the imagination but it IS better (especially performance wise and interior quality wise) than the Mercedes-Benz ML, Range Rover and BMW X5...it's chief competitors. We predict it will steal sales at MB, Land Rover and BMW's expense...but not be the homerun Porsche is hoping for...Remember guys, most people buy these vehicles for the "Utility", not the performance. Performance is always icing on the cake of an SUV. If it had a third row seat, was less expensive and it was beautiful...then we'd be be talking homerun here...

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Dec 6, 2002 9:45:48 PM

EricAlain: Veteran; Loc: Paris, France , France; Posts: 1037, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 14, 2002; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Re: Auto Spies perspective

"Performance is always the icing on the cake" ..... may be for boring and poorly engineered cars but certainly not for a Porsche. A Porsche car has to distinguish itself from the crowd by its performances.... not the number of cupholders...

Talking about "utility", SUVs aren't generally very practical cars. A station wagon (so popular in Germany and Northern Europe) is a much better compromise. For example the cargo area of an X5, an ML or a Ford Explorer is much smaller than my A6 Avant !!!

SUVs are just a fashion trend. People want to seat "high" so the feel more "secure". They want to be surrounded by a lot of metal so in case of a crash, they will destroy the other car. It's the Panzer way of thinking....In the US we have so many roll-over accidents with SUVs that there is a disclaimer saying that SUVs don't drive and don't react like cars......

To have a decent 3 row seat you must have a large SUV otherwise it's ridiculously small. I too have a 3 row seat in my A6 ..... But kids will be the only one to fit...

Bottom line and Thank God the Cayenne will never compete against the Ford Explorer nor the Chevy Blazer.... If it is the case, I'll sell mine immediately!!!!

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Dec 7, 2002 12:46:04 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59607, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Re: Auto Spies perspective

Ron, I'm not sure I can fully agree.
Yes, the Cayenne doesn't look spectacular. From my point of view, it even looks boring and maybe, to describe it with my wife's words, like a pumped up 911 Turbo.
But I'm not sure the Cayenne will be the ordinary SUV like others. Especially the Cayenne Turbo will be something special, a SUV one of it's kind. This situation might change in a few years with the all new X5 and ML but right now, there is no competitor to the Cayenne Turbo.

Porsche's strategy might be the following: the Cayenne S is mainly for the US market where it beats the ML55 when it comes to the brand name and price tag. The Cayenne Turbo is mainly for Asia, the Middle East and especially Europe. In Germany, the Cayenne Turbo seems to be the most wanted Cayenne right now. For people who don't care much about performance but for the brand name Porsche and a powerful engine, the Cayenne Turbo is the perfect product.

I'm pretty sure that the Cayenne will hurt Porsche sportscar sales very much, even more than Porsche might be aware of.
I know many people over here who drive their 911 pretty slow and even have family and a family SUV. For these people, the Cayenne is the perfect car. It carries the Porsche tag and at the same time, it can move the whole family. Not all Porsche owners are hardcore owners like some of us over here on this forum.

And the funniest thing: VW asks a lot of money for the VW Touareg and the V10 TDi is priced at the same price tag as the Cayenne S. I guess VW couldn't do Porsche a bigger favor because a lot of people will choose the Cayenne S instead. Same money, more power and a pretty exclusive brand name. Who wants the Touareg?

But watch out, Porsche. I'm sure that BMW and Mercedes won't let Porsche/VW hurt their SUV sales too much. Even if Porsche plans a high performance 550-600 HP Cayenne if Cayenne sales go well, I'm sure that BMW and especially Mercedes can easily cope with that. The future of the SUV will be very interesting, I hope some US manufacturers start to overview their strategy because otherwise they'll be busted. C'mon GM, where the monster SUV with 500 HP?

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Dec 7, 2002 2:17:52 PM

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , United States; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 10, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Auto Spies perspective

RC,
As you said SUV market will be interesting in the next few years. But as far as U.S. SUV makers, I don't believe they even have the chance or the technical talent to compete with MB, BMW and Porsche.

I'm not discrediting the U.S. manufacturers at all, is just that German's are known for their engineering and automobiles almost for ever.

U.S. SUV makers are mostly into making roomy cars like Suburban, Excurtion and so forth. HP is not in their list nor will be in the future.

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Dec 7, 2002 3:10:41 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59607, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Ron (Houston)

Re: Auto Spies perspective

Ron, I think that US car manufacturers have a huge potential.
Some of them just don't (want to) use it. Chrysler got a huge technology transfer from Mercedes, this is true. But don't tell me that General Motors doesn't have the technology/knowledge to build fine cars. US manufacturers already lost a huge slice of the SUV market cake because they weren't trying hard enough. While BMW and Mercedes built their premium SUV factories in the US, GMC and Ford werde playing the cheap stuff game. I guess I said it before: I drove a Lincoln Navigator last spring in the US and interior quality was horrible, not to speak about the horrible drive feel.
Even the ML was miles ahead reagarding interior quality compared to the Lincoln. And the Mercedes ML has a crappy interior quality compared to the BMW X5. Today I looked again at the Cayenne interior quality and overall build quality. Wow, I guess even a Mercedes S-class isn't better.

US manufacturers have a long tradition of building SUVs, I'd be very sad to see them loose the SUV competition.
I remember the GMC Typhoon which had a great concept by it's time, unfortunately a crappy quality. The GMC Typhoon was sold in the US when in Germany people didn't even know how to spell the word SUV.

It is incredible how fast BMW and Mercedes learned the SUV lesson. And the next step is clear: Mercedes wants to build bigger SUVs to get even more from the SUV cake in the US. If US manufacturers don't wake up, they find themselves in a very very bad position.

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