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    SUV backlash in Europe gains traction

    From the Seattle Times

    LINK TO WEB PAGE

    This article is an update of the current anti-SUV movement in Europe.

    Is the article representative of what our European Rennteam members are seeing?

    Re: SUV backlash in Europe gains traction

    Based on observations that I've been informed of a huge percentage of SUV drivers are young females, part of them the all-known "soccer mums".

    I wouldn't say that the climate is as bad as considered in the article (but this seems to be a common phenomenom on some European reports I've read) but quite dense.

    I've been passed by SUVs on the Autobahn quite often and it just doesn't give you a feeling of security being past by a 2.5ton truck with 130 mph...

    Gas prices are about four bucks a gallon in Germany right now - not even considering UK prices!

    I strongly believe that the different attitude towards SUVs is influenced by the European thinking as much as the situation for indiv. transport in major areas.

    The point is that there is just lack of senseful reasons for the majority of SUV drivers/owners to chose this car over a regular station wagon (not that I couldn't figure)..

    Re: SUV backlash in Europe gains traction

    Reason for SUV:

    1. I hate station wagons
    2. my wife hates station wagons
    3. there isn't enough room for two kids in a station wagon (try to change diapers inside the car... )
    4. SUVs are great during Bavarian winters
    5. SUVs are great when it is raining (the heavy weight provides a pretty stable drive feel)
    6. SUVs are great for going skiing and there is no need for a roof transport system
    7. you can get lots of luggage in a SUV

    I'm sure I could find more reasons...

    The high fuel consumption? Well, most station wagons over here are using Diesel engines, so I really don't have to feel bad about the environment but actually for my pocket.

    Re: SUV backlash in Europe gains traction

    Reasons against SUVs:

    1. they weight too much
    2. my neigbor says they weight too much
    3. they weight too... no, they take quite a lot of space compared to other cars EXCEPT for their length!
    4. they are not very social-friendly in crashes with smaller / different cars
    5. they are made to feel easy or simple to drive, what they physically are not
    6. they use too much gas
    7. despite of heavy weight and bad gas mileage, they are equipped with strong engines which enables the vehicle to feel light and drive fast

    You see, this won't get us anywhere... Didn't you say by yourself, that you have a certain dislike for diesel engines? What's the consumption on your Cayenne?

    This is not about envy or whatever someone could address this to but about unnecessary features that at the least 80% of customers won't use or will never understand how to use!

    Re: SUV backlash in Europe gains traction

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Reasons against SUVs:

    1. they weight too much
    2. my neigbor says they weight too much
    3. they weight too... no, they take quite a lot of space compared to other cars EXCEPT for their length!
    4. they are not very social-friendly in crashes with smaller / different cars
    5. they are made to feel easy or simple to drive, what they physically are not
    6. they use too much gas
    7. despite of heavy weight and bad gas mileage, they are equipped with strong engines which enables the vehicle to feel light and drive fast

    You see, this won't get us anywhere... Didn't you say by yourself, that you have a certain dislike for diesel engines? What's the consumption on your Cayenne?

    This is not about envy or whatever someone could address this to but about unnecessary features that at the least 80% of customers won't use or will never understand how to use!



    My answer regarding points 1-3: I don't care.
    Point 4: this is why I bought a SUV for the family.
    Point 5: maybe but the Cayenne is safe, even if less experienced drivers drive it.
    Point 6: this is annoying but I'm willing to accept it for the benefits a SUV provides
    Point 7: this is why I buy a V8 SUV, otherwise I would buy a small Diesel

    Fuel consumption is high but so is the price tag of the SUV itself. If I wanted a cost saving car, I would have bought a VW Passat Diesel.
    I find it somehow funny when people buy a ML400 CDi for more than 65000 Euro (more than 120000 german marks, the price of a 911 a few years ago...) and make complaints that their ML takes 15 litres of Diesel instead of the expected 12.

    Diesel engines aren't at all environmental friendly but our politicians in Europe love to maintain that gossip that Diesel cars are a great thing to have. Of course...because many families wouldn't be able to afford a different car due to high fuel prices compared to the Diesel prices.

    And maybe you should see it the other way around: by consuming a lot of fuel, I pay lots of fuel taxes to the german state too. People who love to rant against SUVs in Germany are brainless because they don't see the whole picture. Just think of the weight related tax which has been abandoned now because of pressure from the public.

    Re: SUV backlash in Europe gains traction

    RC,

    you are absolutely right but this doesn't make the thing any worse or better. Don't get me wrong, I accept people driving those vehicles and I absolutely understand your thinking. I even accept that you use the car's handling capabilities and its luggage space and accept a certain amount of fuel.

    Anyways, I know SUV owners and drivers who feel great and superior in or because of the car and don't even have a clue how to use the AWD or additional FWD on their Offroaders. What reason do these people have to buy such a car. How many Cayenne owners really appreciate the car's ability to climb highest montains, using complex transmission and drivetrain? Why does someone need this and drives 270 kph with the exact same car - you see, there are not even tires available appropriate for both conditions! You probably know this better than me as an owner.

    Let's put it another way, most of your comments can also be found in a VW Touran. Some of the aspects might also be found in the upcoming ML or the CST/GST.
    I don't want to bash people for driving those cars - I would only if they don't do it appropriately.

    You see, the above mentioned species is in my eyes pretty close to poseurs driving their F1-boxed Ferrari through downtown... I guess you get my point!
    By the way, point no. 2 was referring to the exact same in your post

    As a bottom line, I think it should be challenge enough to take the SUV's advantages and convert them into another type of vehicle. That's what designers are for!
    And I bet they will make it...

    Appreciate this discussion!
    Greetings!

    Re: SUV backlash in Europe gains traction

    Quote:
    Why does someone need this and drives 270 kph with the exact same car - you see, there are not even tires available appropriate for both conditions!



    This is an excellent point! I do both and have settled on the Continental 4x4 M&S as a reasonable compromise. So far I have been satisfied. I would like better off-road traction but as long as they can stand up to the rocks and not break I'll be happy.

    Re: SUV backlash in Europe gains traction

    GM,

    always appreciate your pics!

    I don't want to say that it is a bad thing to build such a car or integrate these controversial features in one. I just believe that there is a very, very small amount of people who really would do so.

    I am not sure if you drove maximum speed with your Cayenne but this will probably be not your everyday experience in Texas, will it?

    RC, you are very aware of tires' importance so I don't expect you to drive with those tires on street and dramatically off-road..!

    I'd say the Cayenne is great but just as the Smart two-seater it lacks the duties it could fulfill!

    Greetings!

    Re: SUV backlash in Europe gains traction

    Quote:
    I am not sure if you drove maximum speed with your Cayenne but this will probably be not your everyday experience in Texas, will it?




    Certainly not an everyday experience, no. But Porsche's recommended off-road tire, the Pirelli Scorpion AT, is only rated for 118 mph. It's not at all unusual for me to exceed that when I'm traveling across Texas deserted highways. The Continental's 150 mph rating suits my needs about right.

    Re: SUV backlash in Europe gains traction

    GM,

    I'd say you are the prototype customer for the Cayenne.

    Good to see there are people out there who appreciate its abilities.

    Re: SUV backlash in Europe gains traction

    Just want to add to Ferdies comments, that i agree completely, there is no sense in trying to justify driving gas guzzling SUV's, when world resources are rapidly depleting.
    But if we are to consider what is right to do, there are many things we should change about our lifestyle, and this discussion could easily be broadened to include countless things we do in the western world.
    We are living in a competitive society, in which the reward is such things as SUV's sportscars, or big houses, so what else can we do...we need a little reward, for life is short, and we work hard.
    But I do feel a pinge of guilt about considering a SUV, and i am sure at some point there will be a backlash, or it will come naturally when gas prices reach 20 dollars a gallon-then even the Americans will have to change their ways...so I am rushing to get my Cayenne before its too late..and after that i will get the Audi a2 which i really admire design wise and intellectually.

    Re: SUV backlash in Europe gains traction

    Quote:
    Toto said:
    ...so I am rushing to get my Cayenne before its too late..and after that i will get the Audi a2 which i really admire design wise and intellectually.



    Better hurry up - there are rumours that it won't get a successor.

    I actually thought about the increased safety in the SUVs and this is definately one of the strong points at the same time, especially if you have family.

    Again, I don't want to misjudge anybody on this board. I see a lot of advantages on those cars but I'd say the weakest point is that nobody wants or is able to use them...

    Re: SUV backlash in Europe gains traction

    Yes, ferdie, and we cant use the argument that we have additional safety, because we are driving 2.5 tons cars, while everyone else drives 1.5 tons cars, or less can we..that would be totally unjustifyable and immoral, would it not!
    So lts just enjoy it while it lasts, and adim we ar not perfect, and live in an imperfect world...and we can maybe try and make it up by doing other good things, cant we?

    Re: SUV backlash in Europe gains traction

    Reason to buy an SUV: personal freedom - you want it, you buy it.

    States/Governments should get out of our backs.

    Re: SUV backlash in Europe gains traction

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    RC, you are very aware of tires' importance so I don't expect you to drive with those tires on street and dramatically off-road..!




    No, of course not. But I enjoy a lot to see those very surprised faces when I park my Cayenne in the most impossible places in the city or the city surroundings.
    Last time I parked my Cayenne in a dry sewer canal which isn't used anymore, I forgot to take a pic, it looked really funny. And can you imagine it? A police patrol put a ticket on my window, asking for 50 Euro because of dangerous parking in an unauthorized area.
    I didn't pay and they sent me a warning notice. After that notice, my lawyer called them and talked to them. No more ticket. They had no justification whatsoever to ticket me, the sewer canal wasn't used anymore, there were no "no parking or driving" signs (only on the street next to it).

    Another time I parked my Cayenne on the grass of a tiny hill going up at a parking lot. No standard car would have been able to park there. When I got back, I had a ticket. They asked for 10 Euro because I parked in an unauthorized zone. I didn't pass it to my lawyer but paid the 10 Euro because I wasn't in the mood of loosing time and nerves for 10 Euro. But it tells a lot about german mentality and how people view such cars. Sad.

    Re: SUV backlash in Europe gains traction

    Hi RC,
    I can understand your justification for an SUV, especially since it is a Porsche , however there are odd things going on in the U.S that make me wish there were less of them on the road today. For example, two houses in my neighborhood have Hummers in the garage. These people just communte back and forth, the same as they could with a sedan. It is obvious that they do not offroad or use any extra cargo space. However, they love driving up high and disregarding small sports cars around them. One is a real estate agent who has lifted the truck and slapped his company logo on the side. He wants to attract attention.

    People who like riding up high and who don't have to worry about speed bumps and curbs when they drive recklessly love SUVs and feel invincible, so they don't pay attention to the road sometimes. This is a reflection of the driver somewhat as well. Speed bumps get larger and larger every year because of these and pretty soon a stock GT3 won't be able to make it over without ripping the front bumper off. Many have air pressures too low and drive way too fast for the speed (an Excursion is not a Cayenne).

    Legislation also helps the SUV thrive. They are considered a truck when it comes to tax deductions, bumper regulations, headlamp regulations, gas guzzler exemptions and other construction metrics. They are considered a car when going over bridges, paying tolls, and insurance premiums. Seems unfair. In a single car crash, many American SUVs that aren't made with unibody construction are far less safe than little cars like the Mini Cooper S.

    However, even if the SUV isn't the optimal choice for someone in my eyes, it makes the owner happy, and thus we have to respect it. If I have to get 10mpg, it better be because I put the pedal to the floor and not because my car weighs 7000 .lbs.

    But those owner's choices affect me every day.

    Now, there are plenty of responsible SUV drivers that drive attentively, maintain their vehicles, and use their added capabilities over a regular car. Just don't see the point to these Hummer buyers who live in downtown LA!

    - J

    Re: SUV backlash in Europe gains traction

    Give man freedom, and he will take it.
    psycological tests show, that we are not happier when we get richer, only when we can APPEAR to be richer, or more powerful than our NEIGHBOUR.
    i think this is true, i am getting a cayenne as well, and why..because there are still not so many of them.
    i am sure, if the cayenne was a standard car, and mini coopers, or smaller hatchbacks were really rare, and hard to get, they would be super trendy, and everyone would want one!
    but such is human nature..we cant escape it!

     
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