Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2 - Page1

Sep 27, 2008 4:13:15 PM

BiTurbo: Rennteam Master; Loc: X , United States; Posts: 3252, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2006

The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

http://www.nissangtrclub.com/showthread.php?t=1403

Here, in Moscow. My friend, who drive silver US GT-R. He has only 2000 miles on it.

Yesterday after some starts with 911 Turbo, he try to start, when "BOOM" from the rear of car. After that car start only in 2 gear, then shift 4 gear, and drive max. 34 km/h (20 mph), and big noise from rear.

He try to order new Gearbox, but its not in stock in USA and nobody knows when it will be where. JDM gearboxes have different electronic. And no official GT-R in Russia, no parts, no service. Cost of GB in USA 12.000$

That do you guys think, may be any advise for us, where we can take new gearbox?

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Sep 27, 2008 6:26:27 PM

WAY: Rennteam Master; Loc: Melbourne, Australia; Posts: 3344, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: BiTurbo

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

What do you expect if you keep doing multiple launch control starts?

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Sep 27, 2008 8:22:16 PM

Wrubel: Co-Pilot; Loc: EU; Posts: 176, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 23, 2008; Reply to: WAY

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

Quote:
WAY said:
What do you expect if you keep doing multiple launch control starts?

Don't you think that a proper tranny should withstand even a dozen of those starts?

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Sep 27, 2008 8:52:10 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Wrubel

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

Quote:
Wrubel said:
Quote:
WAY said:
What do you expect if you keep doing multiple launch control starts?

Don't you think that a proper tranny should withstand even a dozen of those starts?

I think WAY was just trying to bring our attention to the fact that it is a Nissan we are talking about here.

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Sep 27, 2008 9:16:35 PM

janus: Veteran; Loc: Croatia; Posts: 1067, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 13, 2004; Reply to: fritz

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

That LITTLE wire thingies in the last box doesn't look very durable.
Pretty stupid IMO.

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Sep 27, 2008 9:26:04 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: janus

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

Quote:
janus said:
That LITTLE wire thingies in the last box doesn't look very durable.
Pretty stupid IMO.

Don't know what you're complaining about. You've just learned that they do not NEED to very durable. They just need to last longer than those broken gear teeth.

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Sep 27, 2008 9:53:39 PM

Mike S: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Somewhere , Taiwan; Posts: 7720, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

I've seen some of that guys videos on Youtube, he has been doing dozens and dozens of dead still starts. It will obviously break if abused the way it was.

Why do you think BMW limits the amount of launch controls you can do on the SMG system on the M5/M6 before it needs to be reset by the dealer for you to do more.

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Sep 27, 2008 9:55:43 PM

skazzy: Veteran; Loc: ... , Canada; Posts: 931, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

I guess thats the penalty for importing the gt-r and not having a warrantee.

have u tried contacting Nissan in Japan for the gearbox??

btw, who are the manufacturers of Nissan's dual clutch transmission? is it not Gertrag?

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Sep 27, 2008 10:03:23 PM

SadoTorque: Junior; Loc: Texas; Posts: 87, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2005; Reply to: skazzy

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

That is one beautiful piece of automotive engineering. To bad about the gears. Someone must of abused the crap out of their tranny.

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Sep 27, 2008 10:15:11 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Mike S

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

Quote:
Mike S said:
I've seen some of that guys videos on Youtube, he has been doing dozens and dozens of dead still starts. It will obviously break if abused the way it was.

Why do you think BMW limits the amount of launch controls you can do on the SMG system on the M5/M6 before it needs to be reset by the dealer for you to do more.

Mike, if I can switch to serious mode for a second:
I'm sure you are right and this guy has subjected his car to serious abuse.
(a) That transmission must be fairly bullet-proof otherwise we'd have heard of failures on press cars, because those cars will also be subjected to a degree of abuse.
(b) If experience during durability testing had shown it to be necessary, Nissan would also have provided for some means of electronically "locking out" that risk on the GTR.

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Sep 27, 2008 10:17:44 PM

BiTurbo: Rennteam Master; Loc: X , United States; Posts: 3252, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2006; Reply to: skazzy

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

Quote:
skazzy said:
I guess thats the penalty for importing the gt-r and not having a warrantee.

have u tried contacting Nissan in Japan for the gearbox??

btw, who are the manufacturers of Nissan's dual clutch transmission? is it not Gertrag?

October 2007 Started the production of Nissan "GR6"dual clutch transmissions for "NISSAN GT-R."
http://www.aichikikai.co.jp/english/history.html

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Sep 27, 2008 11:08:36 PM

Mike S: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Somewhere , Taiwan; Posts: 7720, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
Mike S said:
I've seen some of that guys videos on Youtube, he has been doing dozens and dozens of dead still starts. It will obviously break if abused the way it was.

Why do you think BMW limits the amount of launch controls you can do on the SMG system on the M5/M6 before it needs to be reset by the dealer for you to do more.

Mike, if I can switch to serious mode for a second:
I'm sure you are right and this guy has subjected his car to serious abuse.
(a) That transmission must be fairly bullet-proof otherwise we'd have heard of failures on press cars, because those cars will also be subjected to a degree of abuse.
(b) If experience during durability testing had shown it to be necessary, Nissan would also have provided for some means of electronically "locking out" that risk on the GTR.

Agreed. Perhaps, it was just bad luck, perhaps not. So far this is the only transmission failure we have heard of. So one can not all generalize that ALL GTR's will be doing the same soon enough.

Fritz, perhaps the Japanese were arrogant and really thought their car was bullet/id*ot proof.

Maybe a lock feature will be introduced on newer models

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Sep 27, 2008 11:18:41 PM

skazzy: Veteran; Loc: ... , Canada; Posts: 931, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2005; Reply to: Mike S

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

Mike are you getting a GTR? btw, are there any in SA?

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Sep 27, 2008 11:21:38 PM

WAY: Rennteam Master; Loc: Melbourne, Australia; Posts: 3344, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: Mike S

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

I believe a lock feature is only in US spec M3 and not anywhere else. Yet that gearbox suffers the same fate as this GTR in other parts of the world. Btw, a Jap import GTR had gearbox issues in my part of the world too. But not like this. That was an electronic issue which I guess isn't a surprise.

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Sep 27, 2008 11:45:22 PM

Wrubel: Co-Pilot; Loc: EU; Posts: 176, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 23, 2008; Reply to: fritz

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

Quote:
fritz said:
(b) If experience during durability testing had shown it to be necessary, Nissan would also have provided for some means of electronically "locking out" that risk on the GTR.

So we agree on this part. Nissan is a car maker not a mobile phone manufacturer. They have their durability tests, they have the procedures, they didn't opened cars producing workshops yesterday to flood the world with GTRs. I am almost sure that it was a single issue.

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Sep 28, 2008 4:26:13 AM

Chris Lo: Senior; Loc: HK , Hong Kong; Posts: 505, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: Wrubel

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

My friend has a R35 who got more than 30,000km in 4 months and frequently drive to max speed but doesn't has a single problem. However, he never launch his car.

Nowadays, many sports car has launch control but it doesn't mean you have to try it. I burnt my Gallardo clutch with only ONE launch.

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Sep 28, 2008 6:31:58 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Chris Lo

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

I cannot see why people experiment with new unknown products like this GT-R and do not follow the route to established sports brands.
Just because someone timed the GT-R at 7.29 on the NBR it does not qualify it as the best car ever. Anyway most of these GT-R people will not go anywhere near the NBR to test their time against the factory claim.

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Sep 28, 2008 12:05:31 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Mike S

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

Quote:
Mike S said:
Fritz, perhaps the Japanese were arrogant and really thought their car was bullet/id*ot proof.

Nissan has been around the block a few times and will surely know that a car model like the GTR positively invites abuse and that a certain segment of the buyers will subject the cars to abuse.

Nissan will have tried to ensure that the car can resist abuse to as high a level as is physically and economically feasible, so that the number of failures is kept to a minimum, but they will also know that a number of owners will still manage to cause major breakdowns.

In cases of obvious abuse Nissan will presumably refuse to repair under warranty and in a number of "gray area" instances they will have to repair under warranty, even though they know that the failure is really down to driver abuse.

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Sep 28, 2008 1:02:44 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

Quote:
fritz said:
Nissan has been around the block a few times and will surely know that a car model like the GTR positively invites abuse and that a certain segment of the buyers will subject the cars to abuse.

It's one thing to produce and sell millions of Micras and Quashqais and a totally different thing to be in the performance car game.

Producing one or two fast cars every 10 years doesn't make Nissan a supercar manufacturer. IMO they should change their thinking,extensive testing and quality control if they want to play the game like the established manufacturers.

We've already heard stories of overheating too, so soon after introduction with hardly any cars on the road yet!

People wonder why Nissan is a bargain in terms of selling price! Could these stories be the obvious reasons behind the low cost?

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Sep 28, 2008 2:25:28 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: reginos

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

Quote:
reginos said:
Quote:
fritz said:
Nissan has been around the block a few times and will surely know that a car model like the GTR positively invites abuse and that a certain segment of the buyers will subject the cars to abuse.

It's one thing to produce and sell millions of Micras and Quashqais and a totally different thing to be in the performance car game.

Maybe you only see Micras and Qashqais in Cyprus, but that doesn't mean that Nissan has not tried its hand at developing high performance road cars, with some success. I believe the resulting Skyline is mainly sold in Japan, Australia and the USA, but it does not play a real role here in Europe.

Quote:
reginos said:
IMO they should change their thinking,extensive testing and quality control if they want to play the game like the established manufacturers.

We've already heard stories of overheating too, so soon after introduction with hardly any cars on the road yet!

People wonder why Nissan is a bargain in terms of selling price! Could these stories be the obvious reasons behind the low cost?

The GTR was seen often enough being tested at the Nürburgring before its production release for us to know that it was certainly very extensively tested there at least. We have not really seen anything yet to suggest that Nissan has quality control problems, because no industrial product can be made absolutely abuse-proof. Reports of failures probably tell us more about the type of buyer that Nissan's marketing hyperbole has attracted than it does about the durability of the car.

Just looking at the cutaway model of the GTR Nissan takes around the car shows tells us that it can only be cheap because it is being sold as an image-building loss-leader.

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Sep 28, 2008 2:39:40 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

Quote:
fritz said:
Reports of failures probably tell us more about the type of buyer that Nissan's marketing hyperbole has attracted than it does about the durability of the car.

I agree with you on this. I envisage the typical GT-R admirer and most probably owner, falling in the "the fast and the furious-tokyo drift" category of driver!

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Sep 29, 2008 7:06:12 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: WAY

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

Quote:
WAY said:
What do you expect if you keep doing multiple launch control starts?

I just took a look at the videos the owner of this GTR posted on Youtube: nearly all of them show rolling starts - no LC starts. Rolling starts should not damage the gearbox as shown on the above pictures. The car has 2000mls only... Maybe the GTR gearbox is indeed not strong enough

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Sep 29, 2008 3:01:45 PM

BiTurbo: Rennteam Master; Loc: X , United States; Posts: 3252, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2006; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=25152&hl=

If you can't see the pics on P.1 here they are

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Sep 29, 2008 4:14:42 PM

Jofu: Junior; Loc: SF Bay Area, CA , United States; Posts: 86, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 26, 2006; Reply to: BiTurbo

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

Aaaaahhhh... I don't care what brand it is: Whenever I see gears I go gaga and start acting like a kid looking at a cool toy

As an aside: I'm not too familiar with gearboxes in general, but I was surprised to see the size of this thing!!! It's the size of a small engine!!! Aren't typical RWD much smaller? Are AWD systems all that big?

Geoff

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Sep 29, 2008 7:09:09 PM

Mike S: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Somewhere , Taiwan; Posts: 7720, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: Chris Lo

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

Quote:
Chris Lo said:
My friend has a R35 who got more than 30,000km in 4 months and frequently drive to max speed but doesn't has a single problem. However, he never launch his car.

Nowadays, many sports car has launch control but it doesn't mean you have to try it. I burnt my Gallardo clutch with only ONE launch.

Hi Chris,

That is my point exactly, it was probably just bad luck - now everybody seems to be jumping to the conclusion this is the same fate to be shared by all GTR's. Some Gallardo's must have done several launches and are perfectly fine, yours was obviously not one of them. Does everybody say that Lambo's E-gear launch control is rubbish?

Personally, that is why I don't do any launch control with flappy paddle gears. Only try stuff like in manual cars.

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Sep 29, 2008 7:10:19 PM

Mike S: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Somewhere , Taiwan; Posts: 7720, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: skazzy

Re: The truth about Nissan's DCT Gearbox Part.2

Quote:
skazzy said:
Mike are you getting a GTR? btw, are there any in SA?

Hi skaz,
Perhaps, its 50/50 at this point. I am waiting for word before I can put a deposit down. They won't let me put down a pre-deposit

There are none here that I know of.

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