Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Full or Standard Leather? - Page1

Sep 20, 2008 5:09:35 PM

bkhko: Newbie; Loc: New York; Posts: 16, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 19, 2008

Full or Standard Leather?

Guys - new to the porsche community and have just placed my order for a 997.2 C4. i'm on the fence about regarding the full leather option and wanted to know what you all thought?

does the vinyl look & feel bad?

also if anyone has pictures of the standard leather dash board that would be appreciated!!

thanks in advance!

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Sep 20, 2008 5:20:45 PM

Oxonian: Pilot; Loc: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia; Posts: 488, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2005; Reply to: bkhko

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

full leather is worth it....after 2.5 years of ownership, i detailed the car 2 days ago, and full leather looked immaculate...

the dash is always in front of your eyes...spending money on full leather is better than exterior options (e.g. rims, aerokit, etc...)

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Sep 20, 2008 6:31:54 PM

bkhko: Newbie; Loc: New York; Posts: 16, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 19, 2008; Reply to: Oxonian

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

thanks Oxonian

just checking w the dealer now to see if the window to change my order is still open...

would still appreciate any detailed pictures of the standard leather interior if anyone has one!

thanks in advance...

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Sep 20, 2008 6:45:43 PM

MichaelL: Newbie; Loc: Long Island, New York; Posts: 21, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 22, 2007; Reply to: bkhko

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

In a car of this price range, the full leather interior should be standard. Get rid of as much plastic as your budget will tolerate. The car configurator does not display all options correctly or even list them. Get the full order list and choose accordingly.

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Sep 20, 2008 6:55:56 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: MichaelL

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

I never put full leather on my Porsches for two reasons:
1. As a matter of taste, I like good quality plastic more than leather for the dashboard. Seats are a different issue. Maybe the reason for this is that the Porsches I started with were of the air-cooled era with minimal ornaments. I feel that the plastic/vinyl finish suits a sportscar more.
2. With leather I would be continuously worried about possible damage to it either accidental or through insufficient maintenance. Imagine the guy washing and detailing the car scratching the leather dash or console. Also in hot climates with intense sun radiation damage to leather is possible unless extra care is taken to always park in the shade and detail your car very often.

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Sep 20, 2008 7:03:44 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: MichaelL

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

I speced non-leather in my 997S. I "hated" the stitching lines everywhere. Looked like a western-style interior to me. The 997 interior is extremely busy visually, I did not want more lines all over.

The "plastic" is very good.

Keep in mind all standard leather in Porsches is "painted or pigmented" leather; it's not dyed which means a clear penetrating colorization which I think is much more expensive to produce. Painted leather, looks very nice but the surface isn't exactly natural; it's "coated" so to speak. It's very easy to simulate this pigmented leather with modern vinyl (or whatever it is).

IOW, The leather doesn't look fantastic and the vinyl looks pretty good. A "plastic" dash is NOT cheap looking. Effete people will say "you are cheap" when they don't see the stitching. They won't say it because of the vinyl.

Just my opinion. Check out differences between painted and dyed leathers on net.

That said, I had no choice but to get full leather in my TT. That as well as the SC wart bugged me at first. Now I don't care. Leather vs. vinyl: the adrenaline of speccing, ordering, waiting, delivering, bonding after delivery has mostly worn off. The differences are not that great.

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Sep 20, 2008 7:04:25 PM

FLORENT KAVADAS: Co-Pilot; Loc: Corfu Greece; Posts: 264, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 22, 2006; Reply to: bkhko

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

go for the full leather.
The vinyl still looks very bad to me especially if you have seen the leather..
All people that go in my car for the first time say....wow what nice leather /// and its eveywere too

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Sep 20, 2008 7:31:17 PM

iron e: Newbie; Loc: LA , United States; Posts: 8, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2006; Reply to: FLORENT KAVADAS

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

Full leather is a nice, albeit expensive non-performance addition. I didn't have it on my 996, but corrected that on the 997 with no regrets. You can't really rationalize the decision to spend the extra money, but that goes for the rest of the car too. So get the features you want according to your own sense of what makes sense for your budget. I doubt you'll regret getting it though.

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Sep 20, 2008 7:49:17 PM

schobydoby: Newbie; Loc: NJ, USA , United States; Posts: 25, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2006; Reply to: iron e

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

I agree w/ iron e above.
Go to your local dealer and take a look at the 2008 or 2007 911's. I am sure he has some on the lot with the standard interior (non leather dash) for you to look at. It will also help you pic colors.
In the end, you can not make a bad choice.

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Sep 20, 2008 9:03:30 PM

Dave63: Junior; Loc: Oregon; Posts: 104, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2006; Reply to: schobydoby

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

The standard leatherette is very good in nearly all the German cars. I spec'd my Boxster S and my BMW 325 XIT WITHOUT leather option and I am GLAD I did. MUCH less maintenance, cost, and peace of mind regarding any potentila leather staining/damage. Both my cars have black interiors and on a black interior, there is not a lot of visual distinction between leather/non leather. I actually like the look of the non'leather dash in the 997 better than the leather dash: cleaner and without the stitching breaking up the lines. Get what YOU want. Sit in both options in different cars and then decide. You are the one that will be driving the car...... :-)

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Sep 20, 2008 9:29:42 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12682, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Dave63

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

Full leather all the way.

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Sep 20, 2008 10:59:31 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Rossi

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

+1

I couldn't imagine buying a premium car without full leather.

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Sep 21, 2008 6:08:59 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Dave63

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

Quote:
Dave63 said:
The standard leatherette is very good in nearly all the German cars. I spec'd my Boxster S and my BMW 325 XIT WITHOUT leather option and I am GLAD I did. MUCH less maintenance, cost, and peace of mind regarding any potentila leather staining/damage. Both my cars have black interiors and on a black interior, there is not a lot of visual distinction between leather/non leather. I actually like the look of the non'leather dash in the 997 better than the leather dash: cleaner and without the stitching breaking up the lines.

Agree exactly

Less maintenance and less wear in the longer term.

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Sep 21, 2008 6:23:52 AM

Lars997: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: South , Germany; Posts: 9448, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: MMD

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

Quote:
MMD said:

Keep in mind all standard leather in Porsches is "painted or pigmented" leather;

not really - the Porsche Leather is tanned. Means the color is all through. This is a very high quality leather actually.

But as we all know, the higher a leather is priced the more sensitive and damageable it is.

Back to the question - for me, the full Leather is a must.

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Sep 21, 2008 12:14:25 PM

C2Nerves: Junior; Loc: Beirut, Lebanon , Lebanon; Posts: 131, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 18, 2006; Reply to: Lars997

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

get the full leather if you dont mind the cost. the stiching is very precise and gives a comforting feel.

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Sep 21, 2008 1:58:28 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: C2Nerves

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

Here's some leather info websites

http://www.rodenleather.com/faqs.html

http://www.roseindia.net/articles/different-kinds-leather.page

http://www.all-about-leather.co.uk/types.htm

Here's something from bottom link:

Probably more than y'all want to know.

I think ferrari is aniline (dyed) leather.

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Sep 21, 2008 2:20:52 PM

Wonderbar: Rennteam Pro; Loc: usa , France; Posts: 2735, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

Wow, this is wonderful information, thoughtfully posted. Thank you.

One question--are Porsche's natural brown, grey and chestnut leathers pigmented?

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Sep 21, 2008 2:38:26 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Wonderbar

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

Quote:
Wonderbar said:
Wow, this is wonderful information, thoughtfully posted. Thank you.

One question--are Porsche's natural brown, grey and chestnut leathers pigmented?

My pleasure.

. Glad to help.

Porsche Natural leathers. Not sure exactly; can't find in brochure. I'm confident betting they are the higher quality aniline dyed stuff. The clue is the word "natural" which implies dying that's more supple, more soft-skin like, than "painted." Just guessing. Make your sales guy do some work.

Apparently non-painted (what Porsche calls Natural?) wears faster so you're gonna get that "fine leather patina" after a while. Maybe not great in a slick car; good for a Bentley or Rolls maybe. (?)

Something to think about: Ubiquity of painted or pigmented leather makes it a lot easier for a high quality vinyl dash, especially with advanced technologies (like Porsche's and BMWs), to look like "leather." See above illustration of close up of painted leather; kinda looks like vinyl, huh?

.

That's why I think nearly universal negative appraisal of Porsche's vinyl compared to painted leather is a bit irrational and overblown.

Of course there's no stitching with vinyl, bad news if you LIKE that sort of bizzyness.

Finally: go to showroom, compare actual interiors. realize your senses are highly charged with a endorphines and adrenaline which promotes seduction by the leather smell.

Solution:

No kidding the stuff is frickin incredible: not shty or sickening: great stuff (I'm familiar with nice things)! I swear to God.

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Sep 21, 2008 3:52:33 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

Simple answer: If the extra cost and stitching doesn't bother you get the Full Leather option.

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Sep 21, 2008 6:16:38 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

Superb info

Thanks

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Sep 21, 2008 6:41:38 PM

bkhko: Newbie; Loc: New York; Posts: 16, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 19, 2008; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

Thanks everyone for the information and input!

As i ordered the car for my relocation back to NY, i didn't have the opportunity to sit & feel the new car's interior before i ordered. All the 997s in the country where i'm in now have the full leather as standard, and hence haven't ever seen a leatherette/non full-leather interior.... and was hoping there may be pictures floating around somewhere...

guess the determining factor now is if the window to change specs on my build is still open.... will keep you all posted!

thanks again

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Sep 21, 2008 6:52:59 PM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: bkhko

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

Quote:
bkhko said: and was hoping there may be pictures floating around somewhere...

Even though it's not seeing it in real life... the standard 911 brochure has pictures, side-by-side, of the vinyl and leather dashboards.

Edit: maybe not... I looked at the 08 brochure and it only shows photos of leather dashes.

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Sep 21, 2008 6:59:14 PM

bkhko: Newbie; Loc: New York; Posts: 16, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 19, 2008; Reply to: ADias

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

hmm... maybe it's b/c i got the brochure from the UK, but all interior pictures have full leather...

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Sep 22, 2008 3:23:08 AM

MartyB: Newbie; Loc: Marietta, GA; Posts: 7, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 6, 2007; Reply to: bkhko

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

Full leather was a must for me. Like other Porsche options, it is overpriced, but $100k car with a plastic dash and doors is even more overpriced IMO. I have never heard of anyone complain about Porsche's stitching before - it is precise and first class all the way. On a $40k car, I would not pay the upcharge, but on a 997, I would never NOT do it.

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Sep 22, 2008 2:51:50 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: MartyB

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

Quote:
MartyB said:
I have never heard of anyone complain about Porsche's stitching before - it is precise and first class all the way.

The stitching just adds more lines to an already over-cluttered interior. The car's got too much going on inside. Compare to the gorgeously simple and clean earliest 911s and it's a more-is-less mess.

Here's some material for your possible stitching nightmare:

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Sep 22, 2008 3:03:11 PM

MattTheCarNut: Pilot; Loc: Austin, Texas; Posts: 329, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 12, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

I could not imagine paying for even a base 997 without full leather. It looks cheap and pedestrian without it.

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Sep 22, 2008 7:07:21 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: MattTheCarNut

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

The above analogy would hold more water if all full-leather interiors required contrasted stitching.... But that's not the case...

For me, I love the full-leather... It has an "old-world-quality" appeal to it, a mood and atmosphere of hand-craftsmanship.

As opposed to "heat and bond and trim" mass-production.

When you're approaching 6 figures, the upholstering of your cabin should be a step-beyond the trim-level of a base-model 3-series sedan....

Ya know, anybody who would want to go the "bare minimum" route, I can respect and understand that... But if you're going with a fairly decent-spec 911, you need a good dose of cowhide... When's the last time you lusted for a vinyl jacket, or injected-foam shoes (arghh... Crocs....)???

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Sep 22, 2008 11:12:53 PM

GR997S: Newbie; Loc: california; Posts: 30, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 13, 2006; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

Make sure u look at the bi-color option. It gives you black leather dash, st. wheel,part of door. If you get a light color, the black dash will prevent the reflection from blinding you...GR

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Sep 23, 2008 4:45:10 PM

sahoon: Newbie; Loc: Southern CA; Posts: 23, Gallery; Registered on: May 3, 2007; Reply to: GR997S

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

I'll be one of the 2343324324 people who bought a Porsche to agree with MMD and state that I would not get the full leather. These are the reasons:

1. Cost - to put leather on the dash part of the center console and part of the doors and charge $3,300 or so, is ludicrous to me. Now before all of you say, paying 3,300 for adaptive seats and 2,200 for nav, etc etc etc is ludicrous, I agree as well. I think the Porsche option guide and the prices associated with it are borderline extortion, but that is the price we pay for exclusivity, and yes having a 40 page option guide does guarantee exclusivity even IF the car is mass produced. That being said, I cannot justify the price for this option.
2. I think lines on the dash and center console completely break up the interior and disturbs the flow. Not to mention the plastic that is standard is not cheap looking at all, once again contrary to the 4323423234 people who swear they would never buy a luxury car without full leather (I envision the grey poupon commercial.)
3. For those people, which is 99.99% of you, who insist you must have full leather, how are you OK with the a plastic center console, or plastic visors or plastic steering wheel column, etc. Go ahead and make it all leather and tell me what the cost is - 7K? So, if you believe that us cheapos should have gotten leather, I sure hope you ordered all those other options in leather, otherwise your arguments are highly hypocritical.

I was remiss that I did not get full leather on my first Porsche, as it came that way and I did not order it. The first option I checked off on my new order was full leather as I thought it was necessary. As the days progressed, it was the first option I axed off for the above reasons.

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Sep 23, 2008 5:19:15 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: sahoon

Re: Full or Standard Leather?

I think this illustrates how so many things in life can be over-thought and dissected to death....

I think it looks nice, and considering it was the only way I could get my Terracotta color interior, I ordered it with a smile...

That's the only reason I needed...

Should our next thread be, "painted center caps or plain: the free world hangs in the balance..."

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