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Re: GT2 vs GT3RS vs GT-R vs RSD Modena vs NSX-R
Quote:
PandaMan said:
iono man...are you serious the NSX won?
This video is typical "Japanse video art"... Just compare the lap times of part I with how the cars do in the race. The Japanese usually do videos just for entertainment purposes.
Re: GT2 vs GT3RS vs GT-R vs RSD Modena vs NSX-R
Quote:
TTurbine said:
The only answer is 2 or 3 laps at the Nürburgring, i think we will see a few of these ricers drop out and have a clear answer who the winner is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8NwaSf4TTo
Re: GT2 vs GT3RS vs GT-R vs RSD Modena vs NSX-R
Not to underestimate the GTR but I think a turbo with cup tires will give a 996 gt3 a hard time around a track like the nurburgring, or why not W.Rohl in a Turbo and Nissan test driver in a Gtr around the nurburgring that would be more interesting 
Re: GT2 vs GT3RS vs GT-R vs RSD Modena vs NSX-R
Quote:
TTurbine said:
Not to underestimate the GTR but I think a turbo with cup tires will give a 996 gt3 a hard time around a track like the nurburgring, or why not W.Rohl in a Turbo and Nissan test driver in a Gtr around the nurburgring that would be more interesting
After reading some posts in GT-R forums and watching what happened to the car in the Best Motoring video I think that GT-R's main problem at the tracks won't Porsches but its cooling system.
Re: GT2 vs GT3RS vs GT-R vs RSD Modena vs NSX-R
Quote:
gangajas said:Quote:
TTurbine said:
Not to underestimate the GTR but I think a turbo with cup tires will give a 996 gt3 a hard time around a track like the nurburgring, or why not W.Rohl in a Turbo and Nissan test driver in a Gtr around the nurburgring that would be more interesting
After reading some posts in GT-R forums and watching what happened to the car in the Best Motoring video I think that GT-R's main problem at the tracks won't Porsches but its cooling system.
Tell us more. Do you have any links?
Re: GT2 vs GT3RS vs GT-R vs RSD Modena vs NSX-R
Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
gangajas said:Quote:
TTurbine said:
Not to underestimate the GTR but I think a turbo with cup tires will give a 996 gt3 a hard time around a track like the nurburgring, or why not W.Rohl in a Turbo and Nissan test driver in a Gtr around the nurburgring that would be more interesting
After reading some posts in GT-R forums and watching what happened to the car in the Best Motoring video I think that GT-R's main problem at the tracks won't Porsches but its cooling system.
Tell us more. Do you have any links?
Quote:
i'm pretty sure it was the engine oil that went hot and made the transmission shift into 6th Gear and the car limped all the way around the track after that ...
as i had mentioned in several other posts before, i hit the same thing out here on our local track. It was in similar conditions ... Track Temps 46deg C and Ambient Air Temps 33deg C .. almost identical to what i was driving in.
Amazingly they hit it at almost exactly the same point i hit the limp mode ... i lasted for a little under 2 laps here .. which was 10km - 11kms and about 4.5mins of hard driving .... almost exactly what this guy experienced .... (4 laps tsukuba is about 10km - 11km, maybe 1 - 2 kms more ... and about the same time length, about 4mins ++ for him)
i guess if you really wanna go on and on on the track in summer, you've got no choice but to fit on a second oil cooler ... either that or not drive so hard .... or take many cool down laps in between ....
at least the car's built to self preserve itself ...
cheers,
alf
http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=24552
Quote:
the R35 went in limp mode. basically it overheated. or something like that.
it looks like it was a hot day and they didnt let the car cool down long enough between races. plus the first gen R35 oil coolers are a huge problem. i belive they are fixed since, but they really need an upgrade for track racing. alot of people with first gens are finding this out. some say it just get so close the going into limp mode, but havent (i belive timechaser said something about it). and cobb tuning had to add annother oil cooler to fight overheating.
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/103996-best-motoring-10-gtr-v-gt2-v-360-v-nsx-r-v-gt3rs.html
Re: GT2 vs GT3RS vs GT-R vs RSD Modena vs NSX-R
Quote:
gangajas said:Quote:
TTurbine said:
Not to underestimate the GTR but I think a turbo with cup tires will give a 996 gt3 a hard time around a track like the nurburgring, or why not W.Rohl in a Turbo and Nissan test driver in a Gtr around the nurburgring that would be more interesting
After reading some posts in GT-R forums and watching what happened to the car in the Best Motoring video I think that GT-R's main problem at the tracks won't Porsches but its cooling system.
Hahaha, already a crack in the armour of this invincible machine?
Re: GT2 vs GT3RS vs GT-R vs RSD Modena vs NSX-R
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
PandaMan said:
iono man...are you serious the NSX won?
This video is typical "Japanse video art"... Just compare the lap times of part I with how the cars do in the race. The Japanese usually do videos just for entertainment purposes.
i don't see what the big deal is.
the NSX is Tsuchiya's personal car-- he has set-it up exactly as he wants. they showed it had RE55's (which at treadwear of 60 are grippier than MPSC's. there are two variants of this tire, including a "qualifying" version that is super soft), and it also has aftermarket suspension. on a short track like Tsukuba that plays to the NSX-R's strengths, adding competition coilovers, extra sticky tires, and track alignment make a big differnce.
not to mention the car started from the FRONT, so didn't have to deal with other cars.
and its lap time in the race was still SLOWER than the GT2's, despite all those advantages. So what makes this race rigged?
the 360 was obviously also very highly tuned.
in fact, the only STOCK car that was faster than the GT2, was the GT-R. that's a result we've seen many other places. and the nissan still BROKE DOWN!
so in my book, if you leave it stock-for-stock, AND consider that "to finish first, you have to first finish", the GT2 acquitted itself nicely enough...
Re: GT2 vs GT3RS vs GT-R vs RSD Modena vs NSX-R
Quote:
hesperus said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
PandaMan said:
iono man...are you serious the NSX won?
This video is typical "Japanse video art"... Just compare the lap times of part I with how the cars do in the race. The Japanese usually do videos just for entertainment purposes.
i don't see what the big deal is.
the NSX is Tsuchiya's personal car-- he has set-it up exactly as he wants. they showed it had RE55's (which at treadwear of 60 are grippier than MPSC's. there are two variants of this tire, including a "qualifying" version that is super soft), and it also has aftermarket suspension. on a short track like Tsukuba that plays to the NSX-R's strengths, adding competition coilovers, extra sticky tires, and track alignment make a big differnce.
not to mention the car started from the FRONT, so didn't have to deal with other cars.
and its lap time in the race was still SLOWER than the GT2's, despite all those advantages. So what makes this race rigged?
the 360 was obviously also very highly tuned.
in fact, the only STOCK car that was faster than the GT2, was the GT-R. that's a result we've seen many other places. and the nissan still BROKE DOWN!
so in my book, if you leave it stock-for-stock, AND consider that "to finish first, you have to first finish", the GT2 acquitted itself nicely enough...
The point is: this video does not provide *any* reliable information as regards to the relative performance of the cars. Also, you point out correctly that some cars in the video are tuned.
This video (as most Japanese videos) is just entertainment. However, it does not reveal relaible facts about the cars tested.
Re: GT2 vs GT3RS vs GT-R vs RSD Modena vs NSX-R
Quote:
MKSGR said:
This video (as most Japanese videos) is just entertainment. However, it does not reveal relaible facts about the cars tested.
i agree that the wheel to wheel "races" are to be taken with a grain of salt.
but they DO take individual lap times for each car, and as far as i can tell, the results of such single "hot lapping" has not been far off from the results of other (European or American) tests, as far as the relative lap times of each car.
We know for instance that a GT2 is faster than a GT3RS around most tracks, and that a GT-R is at least as fast as the GT2 around many tracks.
They're not 100% accurate, but I don't see any more or less variance in their conclusions (based on laptimes,) compared with other multi-car tests.
The NSX-R *has* historically had an unusually good track record in these tests. However, seeing as the NSX-R is a JDM-only model, and comes only in RHD, it has to my knowledge anyway, never been *extensively* tested in Germany or Japan, so we don't really have *that* much info on just how good it is. at least one fairly well known internet auto personality, that is a Porsche guy thru and thru (owns CGT, 959, 6GT3RS, 7GT3, Manthey M440 GT3, and cup car, and has competed in the VLN24hrs with a Manthey prepared car) says his NSX has fundamentally better handling balance than the GT3, although the GT3 is *ultimately* faster thanks to power and stronger brakes.
In any case, the NSX-R is by no means invincible. In other Best Motoring tests in stock form, it has been pounded into submission by both Lambo's and Porsches, even when the Honda was driven by Motoharu Gansan or Keichi Tsuchiya, both of whom seem to be noticeably the quickest and/or most aggressive of the Best Motoring drivers.
I'm still waiting for the SportAuto supertest of the GT-R like everyone else. But IMO, to say that these Japanese tests say *absolutely* nothing reliable is unfair.
Re: GT2 vs GT3RS vs GT-R vs RSD Modena vs NSX-R
Quote:
hesperus said:Quote:
MKSGR said:
and that a GT-R is at least as fast as the GT2 around many tracks.
I agree with your post except for the above statement...
To my knowledge, the only (!) test from a reliable source (i.e. not from Nissan directly) where the GTR was quicker than the GT2 around a track is this R&T test where the GTR was quicker than the GT2 in 2 out of 4 test tracks. Unfortunately, in this same test the Audi R8 and LP560-4 were also quicker than the GT2 on these two tracks which tells a lot about this "test"... In all other tests I know the GT2 was by far quicker than the GTR
Re: GT2 vs GT3RS vs GT-R vs RSD Modena vs NSX-R
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
hesperus said:Quote:
MKSGR said:
and that a GT-R is at least as fast as the GT2 around many tracks.
I agree with your post except for the above statement...
To my knowledge, the only (!) test from a reliable source (i.e. not from Nissan directly) where the GTR was quicker than the GT2 around a track is this R&T test where the GTR was quicker than the GT2 in 2 out of 4 test tracks. Unfortunately, in this same test the Audi R8 and LP560-4 were also quicker than the GT2 on these two tracks which tells a lot about this "test"... In all other tests I know the GT2 was by far quicker than the GTR
oh you're right of course... i got confused. I meant that the GT-R is as fast if not faster than the TURBO on most tracks. my mistake!
in any case, its still close. aside from this Tsukuba test, the published tests have the GT-R faster at Willow Springs (also streets of willow configuration,) and Buttonwillow. the GT2 is faster at Variano and that speedway in the R&T test.
At Bedford, they're split by .1 of a second in favor of the GT2. of course, some of these comparisons aren't scientific, as the cars were tested on different days.
what were the other tests wherein the GT2 was much faster than the GT-R? would love to see those. i remember when the 996GT2 was new, it was just *so much* faster than anything else around a track. it dismays me that the GT2 doesn't seem the dominant force it once was (Scuderia and LP560 both about as quick, and sometimes quicker).
Re: GT2 vs GT3RS vs GT-R vs RSD Modena vs NSX-R
Quote:
hesperus said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
hesperus said:Quote:
MKSGR said:
and that a GT-R is at least as fast as the GT2 around many tracks.
I agree with your post except for the above statement...
To my knowledge, the only (!) test from a reliable source (i.e. not from Nissan directly) where the GTR was quicker than the GT2 around a track is this R&T test where the GTR was quicker than the GT2 in 2 out of 4 test tracks. Unfortunately, in this same test the Audi R8 and LP560-4 were also quicker than the GT2 on these two tracks which tells a lot about this "test"... In all other tests I know the GT2 was by far quicker than the GTR
oh you're right of course... i got confused. I meant that the GT-R is as fast if not faster than the TURBO on most tracks. my mistake!
in any case, its still close. aside from this Tsukuba test, the published tests have the GT-R faster at Willow Springs (also streets of willow configuration,) and Buttonwillow. the GT2 is faster at Variano and that speedway in the R&T test.
At Bedford, they're split by .1 of a second in favor of the GT2. of course, some of these comparisons aren't scientific, as the cars were tested on different days.
what were the other tests wherein the GT2 was much faster than the GT-R? would love to see those. i remember when the 996GT2 was new, it was just *so much* faster than anything else around a track. it dismays me that the GT2 doesn't seem the dominant force it once was (Scuderia and LP560 both about as quick, and sometimes quicker).
Sportauto did 7.50 during their first GTR test rides on the NBR some time ago. The GT2 time there is 7.33. Also, QR tested Scuderia, GT2 and GTR. In this test the GTR was several seconds slower than the Scuderia and GT2. Unfortunately, we still need to be patient regarding the Supertest of the GTR. BTW, in the Supertest the Scuderia was 6s slower than the GT2 on the NBR and about .5s slower on HHR. Thus, I would argue that the GT2 is still a bit quicker than the Scuderia. The LP560-4 cannot be compared to Scuderia/GT2. The available track results are a bit disappointing. Sportauto even pulled the LP560-4 Supertest...
Compared to Scuderia and GT2 the GTR sucks. But then, who would compare cars like a Scuderia or GT2 to a Nissan GTR if not a Nissan driverThe GTR might offer good value for the money. But it is just second best
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