Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Manual Transmission issue... - Page1

Sep 8, 2008 3:21:35 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007

Manual Transmission issue...

I've noticed a that when I'm sitting at a light in neutral and I try to engage first gear, on more than one occasion I couldn't get the transmission in gear. The lever just will not push forward. Typically I will pull it back into second and let the clutch out a bit just to get a little 'bump' and then put it into first.

Has anyone else experienced that? It's not the slickest tranny I've ever used.

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Sep 8, 2008 3:34:36 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: JoeRockhead

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

Quote:
JoeRockhead said:
I've noticed a that when I'm sitting at a light in neutral and I try to engage first gear, on more than one occasion I couldn't get the transmission in gear. The lever just will not push forward. Typically I will pull it back into second and let the clutch out a bit just to get a little 'bump' and then put it into first.

Has anyone else experienced that? It's not the slickest tranny I've ever used.

A friends early 997 has the same problem occasionally.

He learned to ignore it.

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Sep 8, 2008 3:51:39 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: reginos

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

Quote:
reginos said:
Quote:
JoeRockhead said:
I've noticed a that when I'm sitting at a light in neutral and I try to engage first gear, on more than one occasion I couldn't get the transmission in gear. The lever just will not push forward. Typically I will pull it back into second and let the clutch out a bit just to get a little 'bump' and then put it into first.

Has anyone else experienced that? It's not the slickest tranny I've ever used.

A friends early 997 has the same problem occasionally.

He learned to ignore it.

Hmmmm. Mine's an '07. I guess I will mention it to the dealer at the next service appt.

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Sep 8, 2008 3:57:58 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: reginos

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

On most surfaces (approximately level ones) try taking your foot off the brake sooner.

IOW, clutch in, foot off break, [small interval of time that wasn't there before allowing car to _inperceptively_ roll], throw the gear lever into first, hit gas.

IOW, allow the car to "roll" before shoving it into first.

I _guess_ it only takes a few centimeters of wheel roll for the gears to turn a significant amount as far as getting first gear to mesh easily.

I dunno..., just a suggestion, might not work.

FWIW, I DID notice the same annoying problem in my 997s. Not sure how it resolved.

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Sep 8, 2008 4:10:03 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: MMD

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

Quote:
MMD said:

FWIW, I DID notice the same annoying problem in my 997s. Not sure how it resolved.

PDK?

Sometimes I gear down, sometimes I don't bother. Maybe just sticking it in Neutral from 3rd or 4th keeps the gears from setting themselves properly. That's my theory, given that putting it in a higer gear first solves the problem. It just doesn't seem 'normal'.

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Sep 8, 2008 4:16:25 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: JoeRockhead

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

It's completely normal, I encounter that in any of my manual tranny cars, from my 997, to my T56 Saleen, on back to stuff 40-50 years old... It's simply a matter of being at a complete stop where the synchro and gear isn't willing to budge.

What you're doing, just placing it in 2nd and roll a few inches, is the correct thing to do...

I believe that the fact of your 1st-gear having the most teeth is at the heart of the problem, the highest-odds-propensity that you're going to be at a dead loggerhead with a tooth when you're at a standstill and nothing's moving.

There's nothing for your Porsche dealer to do about it.

And I'm not terribly educated in tranny work, so my description may be horrendously off.... But from what I know, that's where I came from...

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Sep 8, 2008 5:19:56 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

Quote:
69bossnine said:

And I'm not terribly educated in tranny work, so my description may be horrendously off.... But from what I know, that's where I came from...

Well I'd guess you're on target. It's more of a nuisance issue than a mechanical one. I'll run it by the dealer anyway and get their take on it.

FWIW, I don't remember ever having this issue in my M3 but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. At the least it's occurring more frequently in this car.

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Sep 8, 2008 5:39:06 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: JoeRockhead

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

Quote:
JoeRockhead said:
Quote:
69bossnine said:

And I'm not terribly educated in tranny work, so my description may be horrendously off.... But from what I know, that's where I came from...

Well I'd guess you're on target. It's more of a nuisance issue than a mechanical one. I'll run it by the dealer anyway and get their take on it.

FWIW, I don't remember ever having this issue in my M3 but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. At the least it's occurring more frequently in this car.

They might try to adjust the cables linking the shifter to the gearbox.
Do you have short shift BTW?

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Sep 8, 2008 5:49:36 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: reginos

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

Quote:
reginos said:

They might try to adjust the cables linking the shifter to the gearbox.
Do you have short shift BTW?

No, stock.

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Sep 8, 2008 5:55:21 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: JoeRockhead

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

Quote:
JoeRockhead said:
Quote:
reginos said:

They might try to adjust the cables linking the shifter to the gearbox.
Do you have short shift BTW?

No, stock.

Actually if it the same issue as my friend's, it is not a problem as such, rather a nuisance when it happens.

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Sep 8, 2008 6:01:36 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: reginos

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

I was going to say something about the cables, you may wish to get them checked if your problem is very frequent. But typically if you've got a cable adjustment issue, rolling the car a tweak wouldn't necessarily make a difference in engaging the gear, you'd find yourself fighting for 1st in all sorts of situations....

But it never hurts to have those adjustments checked... My car wouldn't go into reverse when it was new, and it was bad adjustment...

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Sep 8, 2008 6:19:28 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

Yup: cables! Minor adjustments. Excellent point 69bn.

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Sep 8, 2008 6:38:53 PM

ResB: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Yorkshire, where roads are twisty... , United Kingdom; Posts: 2858, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 19, 2006; Reply to: MMD

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

My '06 C2S does it occasionally. It's feels almost like the clutch is not disengaging properly...

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Sep 8, 2008 7:02:43 PM

John H: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cheshire, UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 7682, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 20, 2005; Reply to: ResB

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

Likewise with mine, very occasionally I have to pump the clutch once or twice and then in she goes...sweet as a nut.

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Sep 8, 2008 8:36:33 PM

yellow997s: Junior; Loc: sugarland texas , United States; Posts: 83, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 29, 2006; Reply to: JoeRockhead

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

I have the same issue with my 08S.
My 06S did the same thing. Under 4k miles on both cars.

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Sep 8, 2008 9:26:40 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: ResB

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

Quote:
ResB said:
My '06 C2S does it occasionally. It's feels almost like the clutch is not disengaging properly...

Exactly.

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Sep 8, 2008 9:45:03 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: JoeRockhead

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

Don't know where I got this habit but I always move seat so my left knee almost touches the dash bottom. IOW, I'm very close to the wheel and when my left leg extends my knee still has a slight bend and the clutch pedal is literally on the floorboard.

I'm very close to wheel because apparently that's where you're supposed to be when racing; best control is close. I_believe_ your wrists are supposed to be able to fold over the top of the wheel.

Anyway..., I _must_ move the seat back and forth everytime to get in and out of car.

Maybe some guys keep seat in an unmoved "bad" position, a compromise between getting in and out AND using the clutch.

Obviously CLUTCH pedal travel should be your number one concern. AFAIK, it is BEST that the pedal hits the floor and your knee is still slightly bent.

FWIW... . Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

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Sep 8, 2008 9:49:53 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: yellow997s

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

Quote:
yellow997s said:
I have the same issue with my 08S.
My 06S did the same thing. Under 4k miles on both cars.

It's not an "issue". It's just the synchronizer ring teeth meeting "peak-on-peak".

As some people already wrote, it happens every now and again with all manual gearshifts when engaging first gear from standstill. Press the clutch slightly and try again.

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Sep 8, 2008 9:57:32 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

Ehhh, I think you're wrong.... I sit in a relaxed position, plenty of leg-room to stretch... But that doesn't mean I don't depress the clutch pedal to the floor, you don't need to be sitting up there chewing on the wheel to depress the clutch... The clutch doesn't know, nor care, how bent your knee is upon full-depress... And why sit uncomfortably close for just squirting around town?? Racing is racing, and it's damn uncomfortable...(besides, it varies from driver to driver, some drivers excel and prefer being further from the wheel... And it's all in setup, if the steering is light, you don't need to be up on it like it's a New York City water main valve...)

In fact, being too scrunched-up on the pedals can really exacerbate things, with that knee on the dash, you don't have good freedom-of-range, your legs down there are all crammed in against the pedals, ripe for clumsy stumbles and mishaps by not being able to freely move between the pedals. In a panic situation, I would worry about that knee jamming the dash, and hence missing a move to a pedal, and in a fraction of a second.... SMASH...

Anyhow, sorry MMD, you drive however you're the most comfortable, I got off target...

Bottom-line, this problem has NOTHING to do with the clutch guys, nothing, so we're getting off toward Pluto talking clutch-engagement regarding a symptom that is most assuredly internal to the tranny, or external to the shift cables.... You can dance the clutch in any manner of styles, it won't alter Joe's problem...

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Sep 8, 2008 10:01:03 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
yellow997s said:
I have the same issue with my 08S.
My 06S did the same thing. Under 4k miles on both cars.

It's not an "issue". It's just the synchronizer ring teeth meeting "peak-on-peak".

As some people already wrote, it happens every now and again with all manual gearshifts when engaging first gear from standstill. Press the clutch slightly and try again.

Yeah, how he said it!!!

Except I never find a remedy in pressing down further on the clutch. I've got to rock the car a touch with 2nd gear to get the 1st-gear synchros to synch... Or, if you're on a hill, just let 'er roll a few inches..

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Sep 8, 2008 10:16:23 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

Quote:
69bossnine said:
Quote:
fritz said:
As some people already wrote, it happens every now and again with all manual gearshifts when engaging first gear from standstill. Press the clutch slightly and try again.

Yeah, how he said it!!!

Except I never find a remedy in pressing down further on the clutch. I've got to rock the car a touch with 2nd gear to get the 1st-gear synchros to synch... Or, if you're on a hill, just let 'er roll a few inches..

I didn't fully think thru what I was writing - multi-tasking again

.
What I meant was:
With gear lever still in neutral plane, release the clutch and THEN press it again and try again to engage first. Releasing cluch in neutral has the effect of rotating primary shaft, so next time around the synchro ring teeth - statistically speaking

- should not clash "peak-on-peak".

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Sep 9, 2008 10:06:32 AM

Arshad: Pilot; Loc: Dubai, UAE , United Arab Emirates; Posts: 315, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 1, 2007; Reply to: MMD

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

I used to own a '55 Fiat with no synchro in 1st, and for that, if it didn't go into 1st, I would do the following: Put it in neutral for a second or two and don't depress the clutch (of course, keep the handbrake on!!). Depress clutch, and put it into 2nd, then without releasing the clutch, put it into 1st. It would usually work for me, might be worth trying it out if there is no workshop-related solution for this.

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Sep 9, 2008 12:21:20 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: Arshad

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

Quote:
Arshad said:
I used to own a '55 Fiat with no synchro in 1st, and for that, if it didn't go into 1st, I would do the following: Put it in neutral for a second or two and don't depress the clutch (of course, keep the handbrake on!!). Depress clutch, and put it into 2nd, then without releasing the clutch, put it into 1st. It would usually work for me, might be worth trying it out if there is no workshop-related solution for this.

Thanks for all of the replies. I usually just put it into second or third and that fixes the problem. I will experiment on it and see if I can replicate the problem.

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Sep 9, 2008 1:16:27 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Arshad

Re: Manual Transmission issue...

Quote:
Arshad said:
I used to own a '55 Fiat with no synchro in 1st, and for that, if it didn't go into 1st, I would do the following: Put it in neutral for a second or two and don't depress the clutch (of course, keep the handbrake on!!). Depress clutch, and put it into 2nd, then without releasing the clutch, put it into 1st. It would usually work for me, might be worth trying it out if there is no workshop-related solution for this.

Yep, that was my technique-of-necessity last week at the Rocky Mountain Concours d'Elegance, driving my pop's 1930 Lincoln onto the field... And you can grab just about any taller gear, 2nd, 3rd or 4th, and then slip quietly into 1st...

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