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    Jul 19, 2008 6:32:06 AM

    Silver Bullet
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    Help with steering wheel shake

    At 18,500 km, I had 4 new tires (Michelin PS Cup) installed. I asked my dealer to add a little negative camber while they were at it. I then noticed a marked shake/oscillation in the steering wheel at 115 km/h and when I brought it back, they found that a wheel was out of balance. After correcting that, the shake got MUCH better, but is still present at around 85 km/hr. The intensity of the shake/vibration is variable and seems to be worst on the first drive of the day. The wheel balance was re-tested and found to be perfect.

    My dealer is now telling me that this is due to new tires and that it cannot be fixed. 2 people at the dealer including the chief mechanic told me that Porsche's official position on steering wheel shakes is that they are only a problem if they make your wrist sore.

    I did not have this problem before the new tires/alignment/negative camber.

    It's driving me crazy.

    Jul 19, 2008 9:32:35 AM

    Heist
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    Heist
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    Reply to: Silver Bullet

    Re: Help with steering wheel shake

    As the mechanics to reinspect and make sure all the nuts are torqued to spec.

    If this does nothing, more likely than not, it could be that the tires are just slightly out of round/imperfect.

    It's happened to me before with a new set of Kumhos

    Note to your service guy that the issue persist. If it continues to get worse, it's probably the tires and ask for a new set under a warranty claim.

    Jul 19, 2008 1:47:42 PM

    uzj100
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    uzj100
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    Reply to: Heist

    Re: Help with steering wheel shake

    Was the toe and castor also "adjusted". Did you get to see the pre and post adjustment results? Is the issue more noticeable on black top than concrete surfaced roads? Toe in/toe out can affect this and produce the "shimmy" too. That this occurs at about the same speed all of the time makes me think it might be the toe in/toe out adjustment.

    Just a quess

    HTH

    Jul 19, 2008 6:52:01 PM

    Silver Bullet
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    Reply to: uzj100

    Re: Help with steering wheel shake

    My dealer said that it sounds like the problem is in the tires because it is most pronounced on the first drive of the day, when they are cold. He said that tires develop flat spots while sitting, and as they get warm, the problem goes away/gets better.

    I didn't have this problem with my prior tires, and after having my car sit over the winter, when a flat spot would surely develop, I've also never experienced it in 4 years of driving Porsches. I've basically been told that I should live with it and there's nothing more they can do.

    It may well be more noticeable on black top than concrete as my first drive of the day always takes me over a black top road. Why would that indicate a problem with with toe?

    Jul 19, 2008 7:45:42 PM

    Moogle
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    Reply to: Silver Bullet

    Re: Help with steering wheel shake

    Bolt torque, Wheel balancing, Alignment, Bent Rim, new tyres can all have an effect.

    Drive for 100~ miles or so and then if the problem persists, have the problems checked again in the order mentioned above

    Jul 19, 2008 11:13:18 PM

    MarekN
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    MarekN
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    Reply to: Moogle

    Re: Help with steering wheel shake

    I had the same problem when I changed to a new set of MPSC at 11000 km. There was no change in chassis set-up, but immediately after driving away from the tire shop, and even with balanced wheels, I noticed a shake that was not there before. I went back to consult and was told that the tire sometimes doesn't mate with the rim perfectly and sits on it in a slight oval, which showed up when the wheel was spun on the balancing machine, eventhough dynamically it was balanced to zero.

    We agreed on having the car be driven for a week, then coming back to rebalance and readjust the tire.

    There was no need to readjust the tire, it found the perfect groove, so to say. There was, however, need to rebalance it, probably because of that exact fact.

    After this, no more shake.

    I still get a slight shake, but only because of flat spots because the car gets to be driven once or twice a week. This sort of shake goes away after about thirty minutes on the road, sometimes sooner if the weather is hot.

    Jul 19, 2008 11:59:14 PM

    uzj100
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    uzj100
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    Reply to: Silver Bullet

    Re: Help with steering wheel shake

    Quote:
    Silver Bullet said:
    Why would that indicate a problem with with toe?



    IMHO, an alignment includes checking and "specing" all aspects of the alignment. Castor, camber and toe. Also, adjusting one spec "may" affect other specs. Though your shimmy seems to be more tire related. On some cars with "zero" toe, as speed rises the toe can change a bit and you can get some shimmy.

    I had this issue on a couple of BMWs and the shimmy occurred at the speeds you mentioned and was more prevalent on black top etc.As others have noted here, there are LOTS of variables involved. I mentioned the toe here due to my own experience. Thought it might be one thing additional to consider or re-check.

    HTH

    Jul 20, 2008 2:34:11 PM

    dkreidel
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    Reply to: uzj100

    Re: Help with steering wheel shake

    Your particular Michelins need to be highly overinflated to properly seat the bead on the rim. By highly I mean as much as 80-100 psi - almost shop air pressure. Second, find a shop that has a Hunter GSP9600 or GSP9700 road force balancer and get the shop to rotate the tire on the wheel (if required ) to get the road force to something under 10# - 6# or 7# would be better. My 997 TT has all 4 wheels now under 5#, but it took some work.

    Dick

    Aug 22, 2008 4:37:10 AM

    Silver Bullet
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    Reply to: dkreidel

    Re: Help with steering wheel shake

    Here's a follow up: I brought my car to a local tuner who specializes in Porsche and they started with a full alignment. They found the alignment done by my authorized Porsche dealer to be all over the place and screwed up. Now toe is basically at zero. There's about 1.4 -'ve camber up front and 2.4 -'ve camber in the rear. I can actually see the -'ve camber on the rear wheels (I hope I don't understeer a lot more because of this). However, the steering wheel shake has gotten considerably WORSE.

    I will ask them to check the wheel balance next. If the alignment done by my Porsche dealer was off, then presumably the wheel balancing they did could be off too.


    Aug 22, 2008 6:08:18 AM

    MarekN
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    Reply to: Silver Bullet

    Re: Help with steering wheel shake

    One question, how many kilometers have you actually done on the new tires?

    I wouldn't go to conclusions on new tires unless they had a few hundred hard kilometers to even them out.

    Aug 22, 2008 1:07:30 PM

    jeffbco
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    Reply to: dkreidel

    Re: Help with steering wheel shake

    Quote:
    dkreidel said:
    Your particular Michelins need to be highly overinflated to properly seat the bead on the rim. By highly I mean as much as 80-100 psi - almost shop air pressure. Second, find a shop that has a Hunter GSP9600 or GSP9700 road force balancer and get the shop to rotate the tire on the wheel (if required ) to get the road force to something under 10# - 6# or 7# would be better. My 997 TT has all 4 wheels now under 5#, but it took some work.

    Dick

    Where did you have your work done?

    Aug 22, 2008 2:19:55 PM

    ResB Offline
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    ResB
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    Reply to: jeffbco

    Re: Help with steering wheel shake

    Don't discount the rear tyres.

    We had a similar issue with my wife's Golf. We had everything you have had done and more, only to find it was the rear tyres!!

    I was convinced it was the front end. The tyres we had on had only done 4,000 miles and nearly new. In a last ditched attempt we changed the tyres and voila, shake gone and all down to the rear tyres..

    Aug 22, 2008 3:04:54 PM

    Silver Bullet
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    Reply to: ResB

    Re: Help with steering wheel shake

    I've driven at least a few hundred km on the new tires.

    Rear tires is hard to believe! (I'll keep it in mind though . . . )

    Aug 22, 2008 3:13:00 PM

    ResB Offline
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    Reply to: Silver Bullet

    Re: Help with steering wheel shake

    Quote:
    Silver Bullet said:
    I've driven at least a few hundred km on the new tires.

    Rear tires is hard to believe! (I'll keep it in mind though . . . )



    Exactly the same for us. We couldn't believe it either, well I couldn't believe it. Turned out to be oddly wearing rear tyres!! I kid you not.

    Aug 22, 2008 3:31:49 PM

    69bossnine
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    Reply to: ResB

    Re: Help with steering wheel shake

    Cold tires will amplify any shake due to imbalance or alignment issues... But if the shake persists after they're warm (of course to a lesser degree) then you've got a problem...

    The responses you're getting from your dealership are scary, sounds like the type of ignorant babble I'd expect from a Buick dealer....

    I've NEVER had a set of Michelins that were faulty when new, never.... Hell, on a good wheel (and Porsche wheels are very good with regard to balance) it's not unusual to require NO weight with a Michelin.

    I'm very suspicious of the balance and/or bead. Whatever you do, get this resolved quickly before your tires take-on a wear-pattern from whatever's wrong that will indeed screw them up.

    With a new set of Michelins, you should have NO SHAKE, except for the mild flat-spots that sometime occur when cold and parked, that work themselves smooth after heat-up in 3-5 miles... I wouldn't rest until this was solved...

    Aug 22, 2008 5:22:53 PM

    Minok
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    Reply to: 69bossnine

    Re: Help with steering wheel shake

    All I can add is that for steering vibration, I'd check
    1) Wheel balance first (incl. rim damage check)
    2) Tires for defects, damage or separation if its not #1

    Sep 20, 2008 9:05:26 PM

    ResB Offline
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    Reply to: Minok

    Re: Help with steering wheel shake

    Did you ever get this issue resolved?

    Sep 21, 2008 9:59:34 AM

    intouch1
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    Reply to: ResB

    Re: Help with steering wheel shake

    i had the rear of my car shake at speeds from 180-220 until i found out that my tires were the problem.

    Sep 21, 2008 11:57:49 AM

    C2Nerves Offline
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    Reply to: Silver Bullet

    Re: Help with steering wheel shake

    Quote:
    Silver Bullet said:
    My dealer is now telling me that this is due to new tires and that it cannot be fixed. 2 people at the dealer including the chief mechanic told me that Porsche's official position on steering wheel shakes is that they are only a problem if they make your wrist sore.



    this is the most useless excuse i have heard coming from a dealer!! especially from a chief mechanic!??
    Porsche didnt spend all the billions in r&d to accept a steering shake! You most probably have one or more defective tires. Certainly one of the front ones is defective. Sometimes a minor tear in the inner radial wire frame will cause spin vibrations that cannot be remedied by wheel balancing. You must have all 4 changed free of charge.

    Defective tires find their way out of factory doors, and are sold in the parallel market all over the world for less than half the price. And they 'are' available in the least expected places.
     
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