Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today - Page1

Aug 12, 2008 4:12:01 PM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14173, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005

Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Here are my personal impressions:
The weather was very bad. Lots of rain, so much that I could not even try LC, nor could I fully accelerate without PCM kicking in . On the highway I could not drive more then 100 km/h, it was so bad.
I had the PDK car for one hour and immediately behind I drove the manual for about 30 min.

The engine does feel stronger, specially with the PDK.

The sound is very discrete

!!!! The exhaust note is very low. I am used to PSE. The noise of the rain and water did not help.

The PASM in sports mode does now feel softer ( very slightly) them my -20 mm 997.1

The clutch on the manual in now softer then it was on the 997.1

The mirrors are huge, when you are inside and you look into them

I did not mind them when looking at them from the outside.

PDK: Very mixed feelings about it. My favorite mode was sports mode plus in manual

So you know my likes in driving pleasure.

Normal mode is a joke for a sports car. It is only nice in town under heavy traffic as it is extremely smooth. Actually in normal mode when you push the throttle gently you can barely feel any change of gear. the only way you realise it did is by looking at the indicator on the dash board. It feels like a variomatic

In this order the gear box is amazing.
In sports mode or sports mode plus it is more suited to the car, extremely fast , precise, the engine can give all that it has and I felt that the engine works perfectly with the PDK in order to have maximum performance. The car really pulls very hard, or feels that way anyway. But I could do without the ' kick' in the rear axle as I feel it does not bring anything.
Generally the box is amazing and I am sure it is the future.

It does take away driver's involvement, but maybe that is the price to pay to 'evolve' to something new and different.

There is one major problem for me: The steering wheel !!!!!!!!

It takes away some of the '' light and in connection with every stone of the road'' the C2 normally has !
I have read that in the driver's republic report ..and I think I know now what's about. The steering wheel is very fat were you have your hands , much too fat , and it feels much heavier then the normal steering wheel ( this one had multifunction) ... and all this takes away from the driving feel. It feels almost like my C4S in the steering wheel.

I am sure tuners will very quickly offer alternative steering wheel.... or one will be able to fit the future GT3 PDK steering wheel ( with real paddles

)on the Carrera , something I would do !!!!

I tried the car with no prejudice against the puddles. I did get quite a few times confused but I would have in any given system, as I had very few experiences with paddle cars.

So I have mixed feelings about PDK. I nearly wanted to cancel my PDK order and change it to manual... but I think it will keep it and see. There is something exiting about it and something frustrating !!!!!

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Aug 12, 2008 4:21:33 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Thanks for the report.

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Aug 12, 2008 4:30:58 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Thanks for your write up. Allow me some questions/comments:
1.How did the car feel in heavy rain? Less stable than your C4? How did you evaluate the handling compared to C4?
2. Your overall comments on the PDK are positive, so why mixed feelings?
3. Your complain is about steering feel as such or the thickness of the steering wheel? You mention multifunction but it is not thicker than normal PDK wheel, I think.

IMO, Porsche selling the standard car with the basic PDK mode and offering the complete system(Sport and Sport Plus)as an option is a robbery in broad daylight. You are correct that in the basic mode the car is only for cruising or driving in traffic.

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Aug 12, 2008 5:14:42 PM

devo: Veteran; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 1107, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2006; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Was the normal suspension mode too soft?

Did you test a standard 997 or the S?

Thanks for the review.

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Aug 12, 2008 8:37:53 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: devo

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Could the dead feeling of the steering wheel be a simple half-mental half-tactil result/offshoot of the way you're gripping it in order to flip those puddles?

I know that when I'm operating controls that are positioned to be diddled with while my hands are on the wheel, that I still tend to subliminally grapple the wheel with less comfort and ease.

Also, just spitballing, it seems that when a hand is doing just one thing, both hands just steering, or one hand steering and the other shifting, that you've got a more primary focus, and the left and right hands are controlled separately in your noggin...

But when you've got each hand effectively MULTI-TASKING, i.e. each hand involved in multiple operations within that hand, you're diluting one operation's feedback to accomplish another.

These reviews we're reading may not having anything to do with mechanicals, or the steering wheel, and have much more to do with how your brain works...

I'm not a neuroscientist, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express....

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Aug 12, 2008 8:55:04 PM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14173, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: reginos

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Quote:
reginos said:
Thanks for your write up. Allow me some questions/comments:
1.How did the car feel in heavy rain? Less stable than your C4? How did you evaluate the handling compared to C4?
2. Your overall comments on the PDK are positive, so why mixed feelings?
3. Your complain is about steering feel as such or the thickness of the steering wheel? You mention multifunction but it is not thicker than normal PDK wheel, I think.

IMO, Porsche selling the standard car with the basic PDK mode and offering the complete system(Sport and Sport Plus)as an option is a robbery in broad daylight. You are correct that in the basic mode the car is only for cruising or driving in traffic.

1. My C4S is planted in the rain

Objectively when there is so much water that there is aquaplaning, I am as careful in the C4S then the C2S. But on normally wet roads I do feel extra grip with the C4S. Now this is also my daily car that I drive since nearly 3 years, so I know it much better then the 2.
I could not evaluate the handling more, roads were very bad, but I would say the difference is as it was with the .1 generation.
2. Because i did find it to be a very good gearbox, but did not like the steering wheel at all + you do loose some driver's involvement. Loved the potential, the precision, the ' intelligence', but unsure about the feeling. But when going back to the manual, it felt like going back a century... If the car would not be my daily driver I would of changed my order to the manual, but using it daily in traffic , I will stick with the PDK and I also believe I will learn and discover much more about this new gear box with time.
3.The actual steering wheel felt heavy. So when turning I felt the ' weight' of the steering wheel, taking away from the feel of the wheels on the road.. also where you grip the steering wheel is much thicker then on the conventional steering wheel, loosing some of the vibrations you would get otherwise. Multifunctional is the same thickness,but maybe it added some extra weight to the steering wheel

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Aug 12, 2008 8:59:47 PM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14173, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: devo

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Quote:
devo said:
Was the normal suspension mode too soft?

Did you test a standard 997 or the S?

Thanks for the review.

It was the S with PDK and 6 speed manual.

I am used to my -20 mm sports suspension, so, the normal PASM mode does feel much softer ( too soft), but I can' t say it is too soft. It depends on the roads one drives, personal confort level, and what kind of driving. On the B boads, I like it in sport better.

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Aug 12, 2008 9:07:50 PM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14173, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Quote:
69bossnine said:
Could the dead feeling of the steering wheel be a simple half-mental half-tactil result/offshoot of the way you're gripping it in order to flip those puddles?

I know that when I'm operating controls that are positioned to be diddled with while my hands are on the wheel, that I still tend to subliminally grapple the wheel with less comfort and ease.

Also, just spitballing, it seems that when a hand is doing just one thing, both hands just steering, or one hand steering and the other shifting, that you've got a more primary focus, and the left and right hands are controlled separately in your noggin...

But when you've got each hand effectively MULTI-TASKING, i.e. each hand involved in multiple operations within that hand, you're diluting one operation's feedback to accomplish another.

These reviews we're reading may not having anything to do with mechanicals, or the steering wheel, and have much more to do with how your brain works...

I'm not a neuroscientist, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express....

Next test will have to be done with some wire attached to my scalped head

For sure I was gripping much harder to the steering wheel trying these puddles up and down, on the left, on the right, only on the right, one time right, one time left, with the tip of the finger then with half the hand... it was exhausting and for sure did use a a lot of the brain I have left

For me the size of the wheel at 9:15 is way too fat ! You do loose some feel from this. Now how much is that ? Lots for a tactile person, not much for others

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Aug 12, 2008 9:53:11 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Yeah, the more I think, the more I feel strongly that when you're not accustomed to something, it can feel like additional "strain" or "numbness" when having to play multiple fiddles from the same hands.

Imagine picking up a 100 lb box and walking it down the hall... Now, imagine walking that same 100 lb box down a 4-inch-wide balance beam... The box weighs the same, but dammit you could SWEAR that it was TWICE AS HEAVY while navigating that narrow beam...

Mind, focus, muscle control and force... It's also somewhat indirectly the same reason bench-pressing 300 pounds with the weight loaded on a single bar is FAR EASIER than pressing with 150 pound dumbells in each hand... More control muscles come into play...

So while you've got muscles in your hand dedicated to flipping the puddles, you've got less muscular control dedicated to the steering than you had prior... The entire exercise could create the illusion of "numb and heavy" steering...

Now, all Porsche has to do is adjust the steering boost accordingly, and send me a nice check for my breakthrough!!

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Aug 12, 2008 9:56:06 PM

Porky Tokyo: Senior; Loc: Tokyo, Japan; Posts: 617, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2005; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Thanks for the write up - how does the PDK sound while changing down gears? Does it blip the throttle?

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Aug 13, 2008 3:37:50 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Quote:
Gnil said:
Quote:
reginos said:
Thanks for your write up. Allow me some questions/comments:
1.How did the car feel in heavy rain? Less stable than your C4? How did you evaluate the handling compared to C4?
2. Your overall comments on the PDK are positive, so why mixed feelings?
3. Your complain is about steering feel as such or the thickness of the steering wheel? You mention multifunction but it is not thicker than normal PDK wheel, I think.

IMO, Porsche selling the standard car with the basic PDK mode and offering the complete system(Sport and Sport Plus)as an option is a robbery in broad daylight. You are correct that in the basic mode the car is only for cruising or driving in traffic.

1. My C4S is planted in the rain Objectively when there is so much water that there is aquaplaning, I am as careful in the C4S then the C2S. But on normally wet roads I do feel extra grip with the C4S. Now this is also my daily car that I drive since nearly 3 years, so I know it much better then the 2.
I could not evaluate the handling more, roads were very bad, but I would say the difference is as it was with the .1 generation.
2. Because i did find it to be a very good gearbox, but did not like the steering wheel at all + you do loose some driver's involvement. Loved the potential, the precision, the ' intelligence', but unsure about the feeling. But when going back to the manual, it felt like going back a century... If the car would not be my daily driver I would of changed my order to the manual, but using it daily in traffic , I will stick with the PDK and I also believe I will learn and discover much more about this new gear box with time.
3.The actual steering wheel felt heavy. So when turning I felt the ' weight' of the steering wheel, taking away from the feel of the wheels on the road.. also where you grip the steering wheel is much thicker then on the conventional steering wheel, loosing some of the vibrations you would get otherwise. Multifunctional is the same thickness,but maybe it added some extra weight to the steering wheel

Thanks for the clarifications! Very helpful.

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Aug 24, 2008 4:06:34 PM

middy: Newbie; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 41, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2008; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Quote:
Gnil said:
The sound is very discrete !!!! The exhaust note is very low. I am used to PSE.

I don't think it's something to do with PSE because the Cayman S w/o PSE that I test drove two years ago sounded delicious. It could be because of DFI ...

I test a drove a non-S 997.2 PDK today. I did find the exhaust note too low. Perhaps even lower than yours because this car was fitted with UK spec exhaust system (central London congestion). Spec:

Non-sunroof coupe
Full leather, regular seats
PDK
SC+
19" sport design wheels
No LSD
No PASM

p.s.
Dubai are lucky because not only they have ROW exhaust system, they also have the option (#150) to delete catalyst converters altogether if they wanted to!

Gearbox:
1. I did not find the PDK steering wheel too heavy or dead. I loved the diameter as it was quite small and I loved the leather on it

2. The PDK is way better than the DSG in the Audi TT that I test drove two years ago. Shifts are smoother and the software is better programmed.

Handling:

The car wasn't equipped with LSD or PASM but it handled so well - like a GT3

. How much improvement does LSD make?

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Aug 24, 2008 4:14:28 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: middy

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Quote:
middy said:How much improvement does LSD make?

Alot if you drive it hard enough (especially on track).

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Aug 24, 2008 9:14:48 PM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: middy

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Quote:
middy said:
p.s.
Dubai are lucky because not only they have ROW exhaust system, they also have the option (#150) to delete catalyst converters altogether if they wanted to!

Ah that is responsible and really civilized.

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Aug 24, 2008 9:24:57 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: ADias

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Quote:
ADias said:
Quote:
middy said:
p.s.
Dubai are lucky because not only they have ROW exhaust system, they also have the option (#150) to delete catalyst converters altogether if they wanted to!

Ah that is responsible and really civilized.

I believe that the option is intended only for markets where unleaded fuel is not readily available. Leaded gas kills catalytic converters.

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Aug 27, 2008 8:19:14 PM

middy: Newbie; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 41, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2008; Reply to: fritz

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Quote:
I believe that the option is intended only for markets where unleaded fuel is not readily available. Leaded gas kills catalytic converters.

Ok, thanks.

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Aug 27, 2008 8:51:30 PM

middy: Newbie; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 41, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2008; Reply to: middy

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

I test drove another PDK today. This time in a 3.8 Cabrio w/-20mm PASMSport.

I found the steering not as lively as the non-PASM 19" wheeled 3.6 DFI coupe that I test drove last Sunday. I think the -20mm gives you less steering feel at low speeds.

The feel and sound of the 3.8 engine was sweeter and better. I think this is because the stroke of the 3.8 is shorter than the 3.6.

So, my ideal car would be Coupe, no sunroof, no PASM, LSD but 18" wheels (19" wheels gave too much tyre roar), PDK, SC+ (for that lovely sport plus mode) and of course 3.8 DFI engine.

However, I still have not tested the regular -10mm PASM and that could be nice.

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Aug 27, 2008 8:58:55 PM

German: Junior; Loc: Dusseldorf; Posts: 55, Gallery; Registered on: May 12, 2006; Reply to: middy

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Is it possible to get the 3.8 S without PASM like the std 3.6?

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Aug 28, 2008 6:48:17 AM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: middy

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Quote:
middy said:
I test drove another PDK today. This time in a 3.8 Cabrio w/-20mm PASMSport.

I found the steering not as lively as the non-PASM 19" wheeled 3.6 DFI coupe that I test drove last Sunday. I think the -20mm gives you less steering feel at low speeds.

The feel and sound of the 3.8 engine was sweeter and better. I think this is because the stroke of the 3.8 is shorter than the 3.6.

So, my ideal car would be Coupe, no sunroof, no PASM, LSD but 18" wheels (19" wheels gave too much tyre roar), PDK, SC+ (for that lovely sport plus mode) and of course 3.8 DFI engine.

However, I still have not tested the regular -10mm PASM and that could be nice.

There is NO Sport PASM(-20mm/LSD) option for Cabrio. Your drove normal PASM 997.2CS Cabrio.

Do not belive me? OK... Call the factory directly... I will even give you the numeber...

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Aug 28, 2008 7:58:12 AM

middy: Newbie; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 41, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2008; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
There is NO Sport PASM(-20mm/LSD) option for Cabrio. Your drove normal PASM 997.2CS Cabrio.

Do not belive me? OK... Call the factory directly... I will even give you the numeber...

I just had a look on the UK configurator. Yes, you're right, there is no PASMSport option for Cabrio (and Targa). So, i drove a normal -10mm PASM. Thanks for the heads up.

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Sep 1, 2008 9:35:41 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: middy

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Thanks very much for sharing your impressions Gnil

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Sep 1, 2008 9:52:16 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Quote:
Gnil said:
The sound is very discrete !!!! The exhaust note is very low.

At what sort of rev range did you feel that the sound was not loud enough?

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Sep 1, 2008 8:43:50 PM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14173, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: reginos

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Quote:
reginos said:
Quote:
Gnil said:
The sound is very discrete !!!! The exhaust note is very low.

At what sort of rev range did you feel that the sound was not loud enough?

When driving in low revs... at around 3000

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Sep 2, 2008 4:03:21 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

Quote:
Gnil said:
Quote:
reginos said:
Quote:
Gnil said:
The sound is very discrete !!!! The exhaust note is very low.

At what sort of rev range did you feel that the sound was not loud enough?

When driving in low revs... at around 3000

Thanks!

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Test drove 997.2 PDK + 6 speed today

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