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    Jul 29, 2008 9:50:45 AM

    reginos
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    reginos
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    Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

    Re: Sportauto Supertest of 997s Mk2

    I went through the SA magazine today and noticed that the LSD was absent from the specification of the car tested.

    I am surprised that HvS did not include this important driving aid in the context of a Supertest.

    Would his times be reduced with the LSD and possibly PASM -20mm too?

    Jul 30, 2008 9:28:42 AM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Sportauto Supertest of 997s Mk2

    Just a quick response-LSD was on Sport Auto 997.2CS.

    They missed to post it in the article.

    Jul 31, 2008 9:36:21 AM

    john999s
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    john999s
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Sportauto Supertest of 997s Mk2

    I wonder what a C2S Mk1 with powerkit and sport chassis would do at the ring with Cup tyres? I would guess its really not far off the 997.2....

    Any thoughts?

    Jul 31, 2008 9:50:33 AM

    reginos
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    reginos
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    Reply to: john999s

    Re: Sportauto Supertest of 997s Mk2

    Quote:
    john999s said:
    I wonder what a C2S Mk1 with powerkit and sport chassis would do at the ring with Cup tyres? I would guess its really not far off the 997.2....

    Any thoughts?


    The 997 GT3 with sport tyres did 7:48 in spite of 30HP extra.

    I presume that the 997.2 S 7:50 is due more to the PDK transmission.

    Jul 31, 2008 10:34:35 AM

    john999s
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    john999s
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Sportauto Supertest of 997s Mk2

    Well 8 secs is due to the tyres according to HvS and a C2S std engine with a LSD and -20mm did 8m 05secs so if that's the case the same C2S would do around 7m 57 secs. So 7 seconds....

    The power kit is giving you power where you need it on a track and a slightly higher rev limit as well as more torque everywhere....

    You'd think that's got to be worth at least a couple of seconds...so....a big advance??? I'm not yet convinced particularly with the comments about less nice noise, less feel in the steering (why??) brake pre-fill etc etc...

    Jul 31, 2008 10:50:21 AM

    reginos
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    reginos
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    Reply to: john999s

    Re: Sportauto Supertest of 997s Mk2

    Quote:
    john999s said:
    Well 8 secs is due to the tyres according to HvS and a C2S std engine with a LSD and -20mm did 8m 05secs so if that's the case the same C2S would do around 7m 57 secs. So 7 seconds....

    The power kit is giving you power where you need it on a track and a slightly higher rev limit as well as more torque everywhere....

    You'd think that's got to be worth at least a couple of seconds...so....a big advance??? I'm not yet convinced particularly with the comments about less nice noise, less feel in the steering (why??) brake pre-fill etc etc...


    My point above was that the 997 GT3 (sport tyres, focussed chassis,LSD) with more power (415HP)than either 997.1 powerkit(381HP) or 997.2 S(385HP) did only 0:02 less than the 997.2. (7:48 vs 7:50)

    So, by logical deduction, no way a 381HP 997.1 can beat 997.2 at NBR.

    And anyway a 997.1 with sport tyres is an academic proposition because this type of tyres were not specified with the previous wet sump engines. Too many Gs can damage your 997.1 engine due to oil starvation. The new engine is nearer to a dry sump in this respect.

    The PDK is making the difference IMO. I don't think any driver can go up and down the gears as fast as the trick transmission.
    I am not debating the pleasure/satisfaction of the action or the switches or the intuitive direction of the +/-. These issues have been exhaustively debated already.

    Fact is that the time required to go, for example, from 5th gear to 2nd in a manual car is too long compared to a PDK car, other things being equal.

    Jul 31, 2008 1:36:34 PM

    john999s
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    john999s
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Sportauto Supertest of 997s Mk2

    I am not saying that a 997.1 would be quicker than a 997.2. Just that there doesn't seem to be as much in it as you might think from the stats.

    PDK is more efficient than changing gear by hand simply because 2 clutches avoid any interruption to the power so it ought to be quicker. Personally I like to change gear manually with a clutch but I could be persuaded if I drive one-I'm open minded.

    No-what I was trying to say (not so eloquently) is that those of us contemplating the new C2S as opposed to an old C2S wouldn't gain much (especially with current awful trade-in values) and probably if more speed is needed a power-kit doesn't look like such an expensive option after all.

    It would have been interesting to see the reaction on this thread if Sport Auto had tested the same car on normal rubber and posted a time of 7:58...

    Aug 1, 2008 1:08:51 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Sportauto Supertest of 997s Mk2

    Quote:
    reginos said:Fact is that the time required to go, for example, from 5th gear to 2nd in a manual car is too long compared to a PDK car, other things being equal.


    A manual can go from 5th to 2nd in one gear change, while PDK takes 3 changes...

    Aug 1, 2008 4:08:23 PM

    reginos
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    reginos
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Sportauto Supertest of 997s Mk2

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:Fact is that the time required to go, for example, from 5th gear to 2nd in a manual car is too long compared to a PDK car, other things being equal.


    A manual can go from 5th to 2nd in one gear change, while PDK takes 3 changes...


    Yes, you can short shift but to match the revs heel and tow, blip etc takes longer than the PDK 3 changes.

    I am sure you understand what I mean.

    Aug 2, 2008 4:02:32 AM

    Grant
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Sportauto Supertest of 997s Mk2

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Yes, you can short shift but to match the revs heel and tow, blip etc takes longer than the PDK 3 changes.

    I am sure you understand what I mean.


    You can heel/toe downshift while braking for the corner (the whole reason for heel/toe). Braking takes longer than the downshift, so there is no time lost at all downshifting.

    The only time gained with PDK is on upshifts and it's a tiny fraction of a second that you spend at the same speed with the manual while PDK is accelerating. The difference is very small...

    Aug 2, 2008 7:29:14 AM

    reginos
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    reginos
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Sportauto Supertest of 997s Mk2

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Yes, you can short shift but to match the revs heel and tow, blip etc takes longer than the PDK 3 changes.

    I am sure you understand what I mean.


    You can heel/toe downshift while braking for the corner (the whole reason for heel/toe). Braking takes longer than the downshift, so there is no time lost at all downshifting.

    The only time gained with PDK is on upshifts and it's a tiny fraction of a second that you spend at the same speed with the manual while PDK is accelerating. The difference is very small...



    OK I have to take your word for it

    Aug 2, 2008 9:03:15 PM

    Grant
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    Grant
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Sportauto Supertest of 997s Mk2

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    Grant said:
    You can heel/toe downshift while braking for the corner (the whole reason for heel/toe). Braking takes longer than the downshift, so there is no time lost at all downshifting.

    The only time gained with PDK is on upshifts and it's a tiny fraction of a second that you spend at the same speed with the manual while PDK is accelerating. The difference is very small...



    OK I have to take your word for it


    I should also say that my example is for driving on the track. You are right that if you are driving on the street slowly in 5th gear and you want to start going fast and need to downshift several gears, PDK (even in auto mode) will do this faster than manual. This doesn't happen on a racetrack but it happens in daily life

    Aug 2, 2008 9:11:24 PM

    reginos
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    reginos
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Sportauto Supertest of 997s Mk2

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    Grant said:
    You can heel/toe downshift while braking for the corner (the whole reason for heel/toe). Braking takes longer than the downshift, so there is no time lost at all downshifting.

    The only time gained with PDK is on upshifts and it's a tiny fraction of a second that you spend at the same speed with the manual while PDK is accelerating. The difference is very small...



    OK I have to take your word for it


    I should also say that my example is for driving on the track. You are right that if you are driving on the street slowly in 5th gear and you want to start going fast and need to downshift several gears, PDK (even in auto mode) will do this faster than manual. This doesn't happen on a racetrack but it happens in daily life


    Now we agree

    Aug 2, 2008 9:50:02 PM

    nberry Offline
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    nberry
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Sportauto Supertest of 997s Mk2

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Yes, you can short shift but to match the revs heel and tow, blip etc takes longer than the PDK 3 changes.

    I am sure you understand what I mean.


    You can heel/toe downshift while braking for the corner (the whole reason for heel/toe). Braking takes longer than the downshift, so there is no time lost at all downshifting.

    The only time gained with PDK is on upshifts and it's a tiny fraction of a second that you spend at the same speed with the manual while PDK is accelerating. The difference is very small...



    That is assuming that you match the revv's perfectly. If not, you lose a lot more time. With PDK, the computer matches the revv's and never misses.

    Aug 4, 2008 9:12:55 AM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Sportauto Supertest of 997s Mk2

    Few clarification about this Supertest(I am not on the beach because of this ):

    -7.50min time was achieved with PDK in Sport Plus D mode(!!!)
    -the same day Frank Stippler drove R8(MY09 V8) on the Ring and achieved 2s better timer then Horst in 997.2CS... Point is thew ALL cars are little bit faster on the Ring sine some areas are resurfaced
    -PDK works very best in D mode(Sport or Sport Plus). On the track it is slower in M mode(be it Sport or Sport Plus). Conclusion? PDK is very sporty automatic...
    -same 997.2CS(SPASM, PCCBs and Cups) with manual transimission is in capable hands about 1s faster on the Ring. Do not belive me? OK...

    Aug 4, 2008 9:34:13 AM

    BiTurbo
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    BiTurbo
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Sportauto Supertest of 997s Mk2

    Do you mean THE (http://www.frank-stippler.de)
     
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