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Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix
Strange race, Lewis learned the hard way how much strain the Hungaroring puts on the left front tire, and Massa was just very unlucky.
I still don't understand how Kimi managed to get by Fernando at the second stop, Fernando was a couple of seconds ahead when he came in and didn't run into any traffic as far as I could see, and still was several seconds behind Kimi when he emerged from his stop
I still don't understand how Kimi managed to get by Fernando at the second stop, Fernando was a couple of seconds ahead when he came in and didn't run into any traffic as far as I could see, and still was several seconds behind Kimi when he emerged from his stop
Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix
Emperor, I find it unwise to definitively claim that McLaren is not breaking any rules, especially when we all know that they did their best to cheat big time last year.
You are absolutely right, that the FIA has taken no action or made no claims against McLaren regarding the TC, so they are fine in that sense.
Having said that, most people (be it Mclaren "lovers" or "haters") will agree, that their system (as far as we know) helps reduce or even omit spinning of the rear wheels when exiting a corner.
Now, you may claim that this is not what the description "Traction Control" normally covers. Usually TC does quite a few things more. I agree.
But to quote yourself: "The benefit of the system comes when you're driving out of a corner and don't want to excerpt excess power that will make the rear wheels spin" - i.e. the system helps control spin, i.e. it helps control the amount of traction on the rear wheels = Traction Control.
It is NOT a complete, "normal", nanny-type TC. Admitted.
But it does control traction in crucial areas. Areas crucial enough to win races with it. So it is a traction controller, whatever you wanna call it.
I am sure the McLaren lawyers will denounce this exact wording vigorously, since admitting to this being a partial TC naturally will take away their advantage.
But since we are not McLaren lawyers, I suggest we call it what it is: Traction Control.
You are absolutely right, that the FIA has taken no action or made no claims against McLaren regarding the TC, so they are fine in that sense.
Having said that, most people (be it Mclaren "lovers" or "haters") will agree, that their system (as far as we know) helps reduce or even omit spinning of the rear wheels when exiting a corner.
Now, you may claim that this is not what the description "Traction Control" normally covers. Usually TC does quite a few things more. I agree.
But to quote yourself: "The benefit of the system comes when you're driving out of a corner and don't want to excerpt excess power that will make the rear wheels spin" - i.e. the system helps control spin, i.e. it helps control the amount of traction on the rear wheels = Traction Control.
It is NOT a complete, "normal", nanny-type TC. Admitted.
But it does control traction in crucial areas. Areas crucial enough to win races with it. So it is a traction controller, whatever you wanna call it.
I am sure the McLaren lawyers will denounce this exact wording vigorously, since admitting to this being a partial TC naturally will take away their advantage.
But since we are not McLaren lawyers, I suggest we call it what it is: Traction Control.
Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix
Quote:
temm said:
Strange race, Lewis learned the hard way how much strain the Hungaroring puts on the left front tire, and Massa was just very unlucky.
I still don't understand how Kimi managed to get by Fernando at the second stop, Fernando was a couple of seconds ahead when he came in and didn't run into any traffic as far as I could see, and still was several seconds behind Kimi when he emerged from his stop
Temm, I think Alonso was only 1.5 secs ahead. When Alonso pitted, Kimi gained almost a full second on him on the in-lap alone, then he made a faster pitstop.
Check out the driver quotes on F1.com, I think there are a few remarks from Kimi on that incident.
Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix
Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
It is NOT a complete, "normal", nanny-type TC. Admitted.
But it does control traction in crucial areas. Areas crucial enough to win races with it.
How lovely. Then I guess Sutil will be win countless of races if Mclaren installed this system on his car since you are made it quite clear that it effortlessly propels the driver to an easy victory. Mclaren could as well fire Hamilton, put Danica Patrick behind the wheel of the MP-23 since it's obvious that Hamilton's driving skills and talent doesn't account for nothing when the great invention of their does all the job.
Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix
Quote:
Emperor said:Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
It is NOT a complete, "normal", nanny-type TC. Admitted.
But it does control traction in crucial areas. Areas crucial enough to win races with it.
How lovely. Then I guess Sutil will be win countless of races if Mclaren installed this system on his car since you are made it quite clear that it effortlessly propels the driver to an easy victory. Mclaren could as well fire Hamilton, put Danica Patrick behind the wheel of the MP-23 since it's obvious that Hamilton's driving skills and talent doesn't account for nothing when the great invention of their does all the job.
The problem is that the level of adulation towards Hamilton reached ridiculous levels after his last victories, like if his driving skills were superhuman.
Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix
Quote:
gangajas said:Quote:
Emperor said:Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
It is NOT a complete, "normal", nanny-type TC. Admitted.
But it does control traction in crucial areas. Areas crucial enough to win races with it.
How lovely. Then I guess Sutil will be win countless of races if Mclaren installed this system on his car since you are made it quite clear that it effortlessly propels the driver to an easy victory. Mclaren could as well fire Hamilton, put Danica Patrick behind the wheel of the MP-23 since it's obvious that Hamilton's driving skills and talent doesn't account for nothing when the great invention of their does all the job.
The problems is that the level of adulation towards Hamilton reached ridiculous levels after his last victories, like if his driving skills were superhuman.
It's because he fought very hard for the victories which both involved SC being deployed, various overtakings and such.
Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix
Quote:
Emperor said:Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
It is NOT a complete, "normal", nanny-type TC. Admitted.
But it does control traction in crucial areas. Areas crucial enough to win races with it.
How lovely. Then I guess Sutil will be win countless of races if Mclaren installed this system on his car since you are made it quite clear that it effortlessly propels the driver to an easy victory. Mclaren could as well fire Hamilton, put Danica Patrick behind the wheel of the MP-23 since it's obvious that Hamilton's driving skills and talent doesn't account for nothing when the great invention of their does all the job.
Emperor. This is just plain childish.
You obviously just want to be right and hear that everyone agrees with you, and you have no intention whatsoever of listening to other opinions than your own.
Instead of a defensive and deliberately misinterpreted response, I had hoped you would be able to come up with a pertinent one.
Maybe you have missed the whole point of this board - we DISCUSS things here, and we often disagree with eachother. This doesnt mean we need to resort to disrespectful namecalling or sarchasm.
Nor does it make any sense to debate F1 of you cant respect that other people dont like your preferred driver, or disagree with your views.
I dont agree with your views, but I find this topic interesting and had hoped that you wanted to discuss this in a different fashion.
If you want ppl who agree with you all the time, I am sure there are plenty of Hamilton fansites out there.
Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix
Quote:
Dr. Phil said:Quote:
Emperor said:Quote:
Dr. Phil said:
It is NOT a complete, "normal", nanny-type TC. Admitted.
But it does control traction in crucial areas. Areas crucial enough to win races with it.
How lovely. Then I guess Sutil will be win countless of races if Mclaren installed this system on his car since you are made it quite clear that it effortlessly propels the driver to an easy victory. Mclaren could as well fire Hamilton, put Danica Patrick behind the wheel of the MP-23 since it's obvious that Hamilton's driving skills and talent doesn't account for nothing when the great invention of their does all the job.
Emperor. This is just plain childish.
You obviously just want to be right and hear that everyone agrees with you, and you have no intention whatsoever of listening to other opinions than your own.
Instead of a defensive and deliberately misinterpreted response, I had hoped you would be able to come up with a pertinent one.
Maybe you have missed the whole point of this board - we DISCUSS things here, and we often disagree with eachother. This doesnt mean we need to resort to disrespectful namecalling or sarchasm.
Nor does it make any sense to debate F1 of you cant respect that other people dont like your preferred driver, or disagree with your views.
I dont agree with your views, but I find this topic interesting and had hoped that you wanted to discuss this in a different fashion.
If you want ppl who agree with you all the time, I am sure there are plenty of Hamilton fansites out there.
Although my post was a bit sarcastic(sorry about that) I do agree with some of the points you made in your post. Mclaren's rev limiter does offer an advantage in critical situation like heavy acceleration but calling going as far as categorizing under traction control is a stretch since the system is manual and can backfire if used inappropriately. Obviously Hamilton masters it like a king since he's pretty much been quickest off the line throughout the season(except for today). I do agree that he was insanely fast in Germany. But it has always been like that. When ever one of the top teams are struggling the other just leaves them behind at rocket speed.
Like mentioned by some other forum members the other teams are probably testing similar systems in their head quarters as we speak. That's how F1 works. One team makes an innovation and the rest follow like with Honda's wings on the nose and Renault's shark fin engine cover.
PS. I like dicussusion which is why I'm here. As for you redirecting me to Hamilton fanboy sites it does the same way since I could redirect you to anti-hamilton forums, especially after your "SCANDAL, Mclaren are cheating, Hamilton is only fast because of traction control"-thread. But just like you I'm an F1 fan and like the subject of technology intriguing. And I appreciate every single opinion on this board, the valid ones backed up by logical and facts in particular.
Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix
OK, now at least we can agree to disagree! 
I still believe it's scandalous that what I see as TC is permitted while a ban is on, but I also know that this is part of the F1 game.
As for what exact effect and/or advantage this system brings McLaren is anybody's guess. I don't know - I just make assumptions based on the performances in the last GPs.
And u are absolutely right, that every other team is trying their hardest to close the gap to McLaren every which way they can. No doubt.
I just hope the FIA either makes more precise rules with no loopholes, perhaps by producing a "positive list" with things the teams are allowed to, instead of a "negative list" with things they arent allowed to.
That would make it a lot easier to control and also make the teams more equal, or at least have them fight from the same premises.
U are right that teams will always shift power. One year Ferrari is king, the next McL and so on. I just perhaps naively hope to see the better driver win mainly on his skills, and not mainly due to a technical advantage.
Of course this will never be the case - unless Formula One becomes more like the A1 series.
I still believe it's scandalous that what I see as TC is permitted while a ban is on, but I also know that this is part of the F1 game.
As for what exact effect and/or advantage this system brings McLaren is anybody's guess. I don't know - I just make assumptions based on the performances in the last GPs.
And u are absolutely right, that every other team is trying their hardest to close the gap to McLaren every which way they can. No doubt.
I just hope the FIA either makes more precise rules with no loopholes, perhaps by producing a "positive list" with things the teams are allowed to, instead of a "negative list" with things they arent allowed to.
That would make it a lot easier to control and also make the teams more equal, or at least have them fight from the same premises.
U are right that teams will always shift power. One year Ferrari is king, the next McL and so on. I just perhaps naively hope to see the better driver win mainly on his skills, and not mainly due to a technical advantage.
Of course this will never be the case - unless Formula One becomes more like the A1 series.
Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix
Quote:
gangajas said:Quote:
ADias said:Quote:
vinnie said:
What a great overtaking move at the start by Massa, great to watch and very ballsy.
Perhaps Massa overreved and weakened the engine at the start...
No, it was McLaren's n*2 driver that was pressing him really hard.
Why do you joke about the McLaren #2 driver?
Maybe this year McLaren follow the system with #1 and #2 drivers, that Alonso wanted them to have last year, with Alonso #1 and Hamilton #2.
Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix
During the past weeks Alan Henry wrote about the supenatural skills of Ron Dennis' son, this week, as Golden Boy seems to have lost some of his superpowers it's time to bash Alonso, British press' favourite sport:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/racinglin...els-bitter.aspx
The funniest part of the article is when he uses Dennis and great dignity in the same sentence.
Quote:
Alan Henry said:
One year on, Alonso still feels bitter
Alan Henry
Fernando Alonso's lingering bitterness towards the McLaren-Mercedes team spilled over again in Budapest over the weekend as he said he didn't think he would be allowed to win if he was still driving for the British squad as their whole approach was slanted towards supporting Lewis Hamilton's efforts.
Alonso1 Alonso, who won the World Championship in 2005 and 06, was speaking on the first anniversary of his acrimonious split with McLaren in Budapest, a breach which ended with him rowing with chairman Ron Dennis and his right-hand man Martin Whitmarsh.
McLaren sources have since revealed that the Spanish driver was almost fired on the spot after deliberately blocking Hamilton during qualifying for the 2007 Hungarian grand prix, earning himself a five place grid penalty which dropped him from first to sixth in the starting order.
"If I was driving there for them this year it wouldn't make any difference because I would be in just the same situation as [Heikki] Kovalainen and not allowed to win," he said churlishly. "But I am much happier this year [at Renault] for sure."
Dennis, questioned on the matter, showed great dignity and restraint while at the same time letting it be known that all parties had agreed to a confidentiality clause precluding them from debating the matter in public.
And if Alonso couldn't keep his trap shut then the McLaren boss most certainly could.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/racinglin...els-bitter.aspx
The funniest part of the article is when he uses Dennis and great dignity in the same sentence.
Re: Hungarian F1 Grand Prix
Quote:
reginos said:Quote:
gangajas said:Quote:
ADias said:Quote:
vinnie said:
What a great overtaking move at the start by Massa, great to watch and very ballsy.
Perhaps Massa overreved and weakened the engine at the start...
No, it was McLaren's n*2 driver that was pressing him really hard.
Why do you joke about the McLaren #2 driver?
Maybe this year McLaren follow the system with #1 and #2 drivers, that Alonso wanted them to have last year, with Alonso #1 and Hamilton #2.
Which would have brought the driver's championship to McLaren.
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