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    Jul 30, 2008 12:41:45 PM

    kashmir
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    ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    In tomorrows issue of Germany auto, motor und sport is a test comparisaon between 911 Carrera S PDK vs Audi R8 R-tronic.

    data:

    0-100 km/h
    911 = 4,4s
    R8 = 4,5s

    0-200 km/h
    911 = 15,5s
    R8 = 16,1s

    60-100km/h (5. gear)
    911 = 5,4s
    R8 = 4,8s

    80 - 120km/h (5. gear)
    911 = 6,9s
    R8 = 6,4s

    Lot of focus on the different gearbox systems. R-tronic is described as very raw and hectic, PDK earns better results. Consens is, manual gearboxes are still more direct and offer more ability to influence by the driver.

    Overall the 911 wins the test.

    Jul 30, 2008 12:48:08 PM

    MarekN
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    Reply to: kashmir

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    This is interesting. I saw the R8 billed many times as a supercar. No one would call the 911 a supercar, yet it's better.
    I haven't driven an R8 and I don't doubt it is a good car, but it is good to realize that there is a sort of divide between the looks (supercar) and the performance (sports car), whereas in the Porsche you have the performance and then the looks take care of themselves.

    The thing that Lamborghini should be asking themselves is why anybody would want the R8 instead of a Gallardo. Is the Gallardo really that much more uncomfortable or unreliable? A well-specced R8 isn't really much cheaper, is it?

    Jul 30, 2008 12:48:21 PM

    kashmir
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    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    ...in last weeks issue of german Auto Zeitung was a similar comparison between 911 Carrera S, Audi R8 and Corvette Z06. All version with manual gearbox. Also that test was won by the 911 Carrera S. Great results on handling, steering and brakes (PCCB) for the 911.

    Data:

    0 - 100 km/h
    911 = 4,4s
    R8 = 4,4s
    Z06 = 4,4s

    0 - 200 km/h
    911 = 14,5s
    R8 = 15,2s
    Z06 = 13,0s

    60 - 100 km/h
    911 = 2,3s
    R8 = 2,6s
    Z06 = 2,1s

    Jul 30, 2008 12:53:00 PM

    kashmir
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    Reply to: MarekN

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    Quote:
    MarekN said:
    This is interesting. I saw the R8 billed many times as a supercar. No one would call the 911 a supercar, yet it's better.
    I haven't driven an R8 and I don't doubt it is a good car, but it is good to realize that there is a sort of divide between the looks (supercar) and the performance (sports car), whereas in the Porsche you have the performance and then the looks take care of themselves.





    I agree....no doubt the R8 is a great (sports)car. Not only due to Audis good reputation there is bid demand for that car. Question is how long that will last. I could imagine, in lot of cases the people lose fast the fascination for the car. I would say, Audi and the car do not have the aura of Porsche or the 911 in particular.

    For me the R8 was never an option to the 911.

    Jul 30, 2008 1:08:30 PM

    Adam2S Offline
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    Reply to: MarekN

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    really?? For me the 911 is a super car, always has been since I was a kid in my mind.

    R8 - thats a nice sports car, but not a supercar to me. Super cars require that "edge" in desireability (in addition to performance alone) which Porsche has but Audi doesnt. Great cars Audis, but not supercar league.

    Jul 30, 2008 1:11:47 PM

    reginos
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    Reply to: Adam2S

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    Besides Mercedes, no other car manufacturer has managed to make superminis/small saloons and cars with top desirability and prestige under the same brand name.

    Jul 30, 2008 2:52:40 PM

    MarekN
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    In the question of what is and what isn't a supercar, I think the term supercar has been troubled by inflation in the past few years.
    You can see that with the new supercars they don't term them supercar anymore because you can't put a Veyron against the R8. So the R8 has jumped from sports car to supercar and cars like Veyron are now called hypercars.

    Jul 30, 2008 6:18:19 PM

    Emperor
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    Reply to: MarekN

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    What exactly makes the R8 a supercar, the exotic looks and mid engine layout? Performance wise it's good but not above everything else. A 400hp Cayman would eat it's heart out.

    Jul 31, 2008 4:39:38 AM

    DavidSF
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    Reply to: Emperor

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8


    I think my 2.7L Boxster is a super car too!

    David

    Jul 31, 2008 5:56:11 AM

    Georgie997S
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    Reply to: DavidSF

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    It is really weird that some people call R8 a supercar really... Also Audis reputation is extremely bad in performance and really good in external design of the cars. In a few words they care about how the car looks and they don't care if it's beaten by all its competitors. To get you into thinking, can someone tell me an Audi model that is the best in performance among its competitors? There isn't such car. I don't want to talk about the M3 raping the RS4 and I certainly don't want to talk about 911 vs R8. Audi lacks of engineering. Producing a beautiful S5 is easy... Producing a really fast S5 is very difficult... Anyway, you get my point. An Audi is never going to be a BMW or even a heavy Mercedes...

    Jul 31, 2008 7:47:44 AM

    BC
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    Reply to: MarekN

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    Quote:
    MarekN said:
    This is interesting. I saw the R8 billed many times as a supercar. No one would call the 911 a supercar, yet it's better.



    That phrase gets thrown around too much these days...

    Jul 31, 2008 8:06:29 AM

    Georgie997S
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    Reply to: Emperor

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    Quote:
    Emperor said:
    What exactly makes the R8 a supercar, the exotic looks and mid engine layout? Performance wise it's good but not above everything else. A 400hp Cayman would eat it's heart out.

    You don't need a moded cayman to smoke an R8 on the track... Try the easy way.

    Jul 31, 2008 9:15:18 AM

    reginos
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    Reply to: Georgie997S

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    The R8 is already yesterday's car.

    Famous for 15 minutes as they say!

    Jul 31, 2008 9:21:02 AM

    Georgie997S
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    The R8 is already yesterday's car.

    Famous for 15 minutes as they say!

    +1

    Jul 31, 2008 9:28:24 AM

    spluff
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    Reply to: Georgie997S

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    +1

    Jul 31, 2008 12:31:43 PM

    MarekN
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    Reply to: spluff

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    The one time I was at the Pagani factory, we discussed supercars with the people there and I made the mistake of putting in a Gallardo and a F430 into the same sentence as the word supercar. They shrugged it off and said that those cars belong in the "sports car" category. I say I don't blame them.
    To them a competitor to the Zonda was the Carrera GT.

    Jul 31, 2008 12:41:21 PM

    BC
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    Reply to: MarekN

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    Exactly!
    430's, Scuds, LP560's, GT2.s are all sportscars IMHO...

    Supercar? Pagani, Koenigsegegegegeggg, Saleen S7 TT, maybe LP640/Reventon. Not sure where a Bugatti would fit though? Hypercar or maybe modded TT

    Jul 31, 2008 12:46:33 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: Georgie997S

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    Quote:
    Georgie997S said:
    It is really weird that some people call R8 a supercar really... Also Audis reputation is extremely bad in performance and really good in external design of the cars. In a few words they care about how the car looks and they don't care if it's beaten by all its competitors. To get you into thinking, can someone tell me an Audi model that is the best in performance among its competitors? There isn't such car. I don't want to talk about the M3 raping the RS4 and I certainly don't want to talk about 911 vs R8. Audi lacks of engineering. Producing a beautiful S5 is easy... Producing a really fast S5 is very difficult... Anyway, you get my point. An Audi is never going to be a BMW or even a heavy Mercedes...



    That's crap. Providing a really fast S5? It's fast. And most of their cars nowadays can match anything BMW throws at them. And you're right, they're newver going to be BMW or Mercedes. But they are Audi.

    Jul 31, 2008 12:53:14 PM

    BC
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    ...fast but not really fast

    Saying that Audi lacks engineering though? mmm not so sure

    Jul 31, 2008 1:34:11 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: BC

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    Quote:
    BC911 said:
    ...fast but not really fast

    Saying that Audi lacks engineering though? mmm not so sure



    True. But seriously, what do people expect from a 350 PS, 1700 kg grand tourer?

    Jul 31, 2008 1:49:08 PM

    BC
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    Its an very nice car, I'll say that! Interior is better than the 335 for example and is plenty fast for what the car was intended for. The RS5 is going to be amazing, for sure.
    Audi may have been behind in certain areas in the past, but at the moment they are right up there with the best IMO.
    Heres one that competes with a 911 for goodness sake (R8), would you be able to say that a few years ago?

    Jul 31, 2008 2:32:26 PM

    MarekN
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    It's like calling the 200 hp Skoda Octavia an Octavia RS. An Octavia Sport maybe, but an RS? And now under one roof with the future majority owner who makes the only true RS?

    It's only a stupid marketing game. Just like all the M kits, S lines and AMG add-ons.

    I admit I have an M kit on my 330d, but only because that's how the E90 should have looked in the first place.

    Jul 31, 2008 3:15:51 PM

    rv997 Offline
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    Reply to: Georgie997S

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8


    maybe the V10 R8 can be called 'supercar" ? :

    "Also hot off the press in Germany are reports of Audi's forthcoming V-10 powered R-8 achieving the latest Nurburgring Nordschleife record, besting the Nissan GT-R and reigning champion, the Corvette ZR1. According to Auto Motor & Sport, a project engineer has revealed the supercar has achieved the production car record on the "Green Hell" with a time lower than the Corvette's 7 minute 26 second run.""
    (from AMS Sweden)

    and price lower than a GT2 ?




    Quote:
    Georgie997S said:
    It is really weird that some people call R8 a supercar really... Also Audis reputation is extremely bad in performance and really good in external design of the cars. In a few words they care about how the car looks and they don't care if it's beaten by all its competitors. To get you into thinking, can someone tell me an Audi model that is the best in performance among its competitors? There isn't such car. I don't want to talk about the M3 raping the RS4 and I certainly don't want to talk about 911 vs R8. Audi lacks of engineering. Producing a beautiful S5 is easy... Producing a really fast S5 is very difficult... Anyway, you get my point. An Audi is never going to be a BMW or even a heavy Mercedes...

    Jul 31, 2008 8:56:45 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: MarekN

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    Quote:
    MarekN said:
    It's like calling the 200 hp Skoda Octavia an Octavia RS. An Octavia Sport maybe, but an RS? And now under one roof with the future majority owner who makes the only true RS?

    It's only a stupid marketing game. Just like all the M kits, S lines and AMG add-ons.

    I admit I have an M kit on my 330d, but only because that's how the E90 should have looked in the first place.



    My A5 is an S-line . Of course, only for the suspension and seats, I didn't care for the exterior S5-wannabe bodykit.

    Aug 2, 2008 8:32:08 AM

    franki68
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    Reply to: kashmir

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    For my tuppence,in the last 4 years I have owned a 996 turbo,a 997s,an M6 and 997 turbo and now an r8.
    Firstly the r8 grabs everyones attention,especially the fairer sex,i seriously have had women flash their phone numbers at me..something that has never happened in any car I have owned,and the reqaction I get driving it is simply amazing.
    I have driven extensively 430s and gallardos and for a one off drive they are more exciting but for an everyday car the r8 murders them both.It is able to utilise every ounce of its performance far more frequently.
    As for the r8 vs 997 comparison...the 997 has the better steering,and more feelsome (but not more powerful) brakes and a quicker gearchange (but the r8's is more tactile).The R8 is a better handling car it really is a delight,it will do whatever you want it to...and a better riding car,it also sounds better.It is less common than the Porsche.
    Which one is better overall..difficult to say,I prefer the R8 but the 997 is an awesome car as well and I would say in fairness they are equal.
    I too thought hmmm..an audi supercar,but then I drove one and was blown away by it,so much so I sold my 997 turbo and bought the r8.(I prefer the 997s to the turbo btw..I think the turbo is too clinical and has handling which can get quite hairy)

    Aug 2, 2008 10:16:02 AM

    reginos
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    Reply to: franki68

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    Quote:
    franki68 said:
    For my tuppence,in the last 4 years I have owned a 996 turbo,a 997s,an M6 and 997 turbo and now an r8.
    Firstly the r8 grabs everyones attention,especially the fairer sex,i seriously have had women flash their phone numbers at me..something that has never happened in any car I have owned,and the reqaction I get driving it is simply amazing.
    I have driven extensively 430s and gallardos and for a one off drive they are more exciting but for an everyday car the r8 murders them both.It is able to utilise every ounce of its performance far more frequently.
    As for the r8 vs 997 comparison...the 997 has the better steering,and more feelsome (but not more powerful) brakes and a quicker gearchange (but the r8's is more tactile).The R8 is a better handling car it really is a delight,it will do whatever you want it to...and a better riding car,it also sounds better.It is less common than the Porsche.
    Which one is better overall..difficult to say,I prefer the R8 but the 997 is an awesome car as well and I would say in fairness they are equal.
    I too thought hmmm..an audi supercar,but then I drove one and was blown away by it,so much so I sold my 997 turbo and bought the r8.(I prefer the 997s to the turbo btw..I think the turbo is too clinical and has handling which can get quite hairy)



    Your summary is fair IMO except the brakes which might be as powerful (I am not sure) but not as feelsome as the Porsche's.
    Also the handling of a good mid-engined platform is more neutral and natural than Porsche's lump at the rear but the 911 when driven well is a very satisfying masterpiece.

    I also agree with comments about the italian cars. Italians cannot match German products with the exception of cuisine and perhaps fashion

    What you say about the Audi's looks is correct but this spectacular appearance maybe also a drawback for people seeking understatement.

    Aug 2, 2008 11:00:21 PM

    franki68
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    Yes the 911 is probably more rewarding because it does not handle as well,therefore when you get it right it is more rewarding..anyone can drive the r8 quickly ..is that a strength or weakness ?
    your right,if you want to maintain a low profile do not buy an R8...

    Aug 2, 2008 11:09:34 PM

    ADias
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    Reply to: franki68

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    Quote:
    franki68 said:
    Yes the 911 is probably more rewarding because it does not handle as well,therefore when you get it right it is more rewarding..anyone can drive the r8 quickly ..is that a strength or weakness ?
    your right,if you want to maintain a low profile do not buy an R8...



    Any fool can drive a well-balanced mid-engine car until he loses it, then... it's up for grabs.

    Aug 4, 2008 9:17:50 AM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    Again clarification of AMS comparison is needed:

    -R8 won in drive safety, drive dynamics(R8 was 10km/h faster in ISO test!) and engine departments
    -articel claims that PDK is nothing special and that it kills driver involvement(PDK gets only 7 out of 10 points)

    Article also said that overall R8 is better sportscar then 997.2 CS. 997.2 won because of lower price and better fuel consumption...

    Aug 4, 2008 11:00:49 AM

    reginos
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: ams - 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Again clarification of AMS comparison is needed:

    -R8 won in drive safety, drive dynamics(R8 was 10km/h faster in ISO test!) and engine departments
    -articel claims that PDK is nothing special and that it kills driver involvement(PDK gets only 7 out of 10 points)

    Article also said that overall R8 is better sportscar then 997.2 CS. 997.2 won because of lower price and better fuel consumption...



    Both are good reasons IMO to tip the balance:

    The R8 costs 27.000 euro extra , that is 28%, which is a significant difference for a car that really doesn't offer more. Comparison could have been with a more expensive Porsche then. The turbo is nearer to the R8 price than the C2S to the R8, and it is AWD like the R8.

    Fuel consumption is important too in the real world especially lately. The heavy and corpulent R8 requires 3.4lt extra for each 100km (+33%!!) in overall cosumption, and in the city 5.1lt extra (+33%!!! again). Why be penalised for this big and fuel inefficient engine on an unnecessarily heavy car? It is only a 2 seater!

    As regards the area of Gearchange/gearing mentioned above, the Porsche scores a 7 out of 10 with its PDK whereas by comparison the Audi with its crude R-tronic gets a 5 out of 10. And the R-tronic costs double the price of the PDK an enormous 7.400 euro. Again pay more for less!

    Finally look at these two profiles in the picture and honestly think which one you would be happier to see every day
     
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