Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Diesel to replace the V6? - Page1

Jul 26, 2008 12:07:46 PM

Markdsv: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Schevening , Netherlands; Posts: 1197, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 24, 2007

Diesel to replace the V6?

Hi guys,

I am on holiday in the Scotland and couldn't resist to pop by the Porsche dealer in Aberdeen who told me that the Cayenne diesel which is coming out later this year is going to replace the V6. I think he is making sense and thought to let you know.

Cannot get used to diesels, I know I have go with the flow but still hurting deep down. I have to say that my 530d was a great car to drive (apart from the tonnes of black smoke from the exhaust when I gave her some welly) Hope the 'new' diesels are better in that respect.

Cheers,

Mark
PS, still looking for the first CTT08 to go past, hardly seen any (only couple of older models)

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Jul 28, 2008 4:53:37 PM

EricAlain: Veteran; Loc: Paris, France , France; Posts: 1037, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 14, 2002; Reply to: Markdsv

Re: Diesel to replace the V6?

Hi Mark,

I'm afraid your dealer is not very well informed and you shouldn't believe what he says.

It is really highly unlikely (I would say 99% chance) that there will be a diesel version on this generation.

1) It would be way too costly to adapt a diesel engine to the current car. You just don't swap a gasoline with a diesel engine. The car has to be designed for a diesel engine otherwise you have weight, vibrations, ... issues.

2) Porsche's engineering capacities are rather stretched right now with Panamera and the NEW Cayenne coming.

3) 2 years away from changing a model, you don't fool around with residual values by introducing a new model that could potentially jeopardize a significant chunk of your sales (V6: approx 35% of Total Cayenne sales)

4) Cayenne sales will reach an ALL TIME high this FY (end July 08) with approx. 43k units, so there is no need for a diesel right now.

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Jul 28, 2008 5:57:06 PM

Super Darius: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Italy-Como , Italy; Posts: 4084, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: Markdsv

Re: Diesel to replace the V6?

I see something at my dealer

and yes..i see something about a Cayenne Diesel coming in spring 2009

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Jul 30, 2008 2:22:20 PM

ISUK: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 4206, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Super Darius

Re: Diesel to replace the V6?

Eric,

Strange that my dealer has been desperately trying to get me to place a deposit on a diesel Cayenne for March 09 and his sales manager has been in one on a recent factory visit

Autocar: Diesel Cayenne on it's way in 09

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Jul 31, 2008 1:36:39 PM

EricAlain: Veteran; Loc: Paris, France , France; Posts: 1037, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 14, 2002; Reply to: ISUK

Re: Diesel to replace the V6?

I guess your dealer is desperate to get some cash .... few thousand quid for free, it's always good to take during "rainy days" ...

If the car was to come in March 09, it is way too early to start producing it NOW. Usually you start to produce a model 3-4 month before its market introduction ....

Again I'm pretty much sure there will be a diesel Cayenne with the next generation. I'm sure they are already testing/evlauating it. Someone in this forum, spotted once, that Porsche has registered in Germany few diesel Cayenne.

It would be suicidal for Porsche to introduce a new version of the Cayenne WHEN at the same time you make a crucial launch. You want your sales people to focus on 1 model only and you don't want any cannibalization...

I tend no give too much credit to what journalists say, they are usually clueless (and hopeless).

Porsche is clearly profit driven, they want to milk the cow as much as possible, it would be foolish to launch a new version just to get 2-3,000 additional sales in Europe when you're already working flat out.

just my 2 cents

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Jul 31, 2008 3:11:03 PM

Markdsv: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Schevening , Netherlands; Posts: 1197, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 24, 2007; Reply to: EricAlain

Re: Diesel to replace the V6?

Hi Eric,

I am not sure why the sales person would tell me porky pies? He wasn't pushing me at all to buy a V6 only mentioned that the Cayenne 3.0TDI would be a more sensible choice and is coming out he said in Oct/Nov this year.

I would go along with your words but have no idea why the porsche dealership in Aberdeen would lie to me?

just my 2 cents (smile)

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Jul 31, 2008 5:51:53 PM

ISUK: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 4206, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Markdsv

Re: Diesel to replace the V6?

Eric,

I guess we'll have to wait until March to see who is correct. As far as UK dealers are concerned a diesel Cayenne would be a huge relief as sales of the current car are stalling badly here due to changes to vehicle taxation, increasing fuel prices, falling house prices etc. These cars are depreciating by huge amounts each month just now here. I got rid of my 9 month old facelift S last month and the best trade bid I could get was Pounds45k on a car that cost me Pounds71k 9 months earlier and had minimal miles on it. I couldn't get any interest trying to sell it privately and the trade were reluctant to take it either. I think the Panamera risks going the same way here as a spectacular depreciator unless the economy improves significantly and that doesn't look likely to happen anytime soon.

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Aug 1, 2008 1:51:00 PM

EricAlain: Veteran; Loc: Paris, France , France; Posts: 1037, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 14, 2002; Reply to: ISUK

Re: Diesel to replace the V6?

Isuk,

You're absolutely right, Porsche sales in the UK are taking a serious nose dive -27% (cumulated) at end of June and I'm pretty sure July is going to be ugly.

As far as Europe is concerned, sales were down around 15% at end of June (cumulated) BUT a lot has to do with Boxster/Cayman being very weak and 911 waiting for the "face-lifted" version to arrive.

The worse thing to do for Porsche, would be just to take a diesel engine from VW and "plug it" into a Cayenne and off they go. Porsche cannot come to the market with something mediocre (vibrations, road handling, performance, ....) therefore, the car has to be designed to accomodate such an engine.
Cayenne MkI was NOT designed to get a diesel engine. As far as the "face-lifted" Cayenne is concerned, I don't know. I believe it is a "face-lifted" model and not really a new model and therefore I doubt it has been designed to get a diesel engine. Adapting a new engine on a car is very expensive and I doubt it makes economical sense to do it for few thousand units.

Keep in mind, Cayenne sales are very important in countries where there is NO demand for diesel (N.A. and RoW) or over 60% of total sales:

Cayenne sales FY 06/07
North America 11,739 (35% of total)
Europe: 8,970 (26% of total)
RoW: 13,234 (39% of Total)

If you assume, Cayenne demand in Europe is around 10,000 units and diesel could represent around 70-75% of total sales, that's about 7-7,500 units. So spending an enormous amount of money for less than 10,000 units per year or let's say 20,000 units for Cayenne Mk II would be crazy. Also keep in mind the engine would have to be Euro V compliant which would add some costs (for nothing because it's not mandatory yet) for MY 09 models. Euro V will be mandatory for ALL cars sold after Jan 1, 2010.

The only circumstance under which it would make sense would be if, Porsche was willing to postpone the "new" Cayenne launch by 1-2 years.
From what I understand, "new" Cayenne is scheduled for 2010 (calendar), if they were to push it until 2011, it would then make some sense to introduce a new version for 3 years and let's say 25-30,000 units.

Regarding Panamera, this is also going to be an "emerging" market model (like the Cayenne). It is therefore possible to see this car having a relative success in Europe and North America and being a smashing hit in RoW.

I suspect Panamera will have a diesel version as well, but I honestly don't know.

Regarding residual values, I'm like you, I'm stuck with my Cayenne S and even Porsche is reluctant to do a trade-in. The only way for me would be to buy a NEW Porsche BUT there is no way they would let me trade-in the Cayenne for a used 997, 996 or a 993-4S for example.

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Aug 1, 2008 5:43:57 PM

ISUK: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 4206, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: EricAlain

Re: Diesel to replace the V6?

Eric,

I do believe that we will see a diesel Cayenne in the current model next Spring. The basic architecture of the engine bay is shared with the Touareg which has a range of diesel engines fitted. Now that Porsche controls VW, dropping a diesel into the Cayenne should pose few engineering problems with the NVH issues being relatively minor to overcome. The biggest challenge will be tuning the engines for a sportier feel. Porsche simply cannot afford to wait 2 years before introducing a diesel SUV into the European market and they know this. The continuing fall in value of the $ against the euro gives them little comfort from US sales either. What they really need is the rumoured smaller Q5 sized 4x4 for Europe with diesel and hybrid power but that won't appear anytime soon if indeed at all IMHO.

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