Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT? - Page1

Jul 9, 2008 3:55:58 PM

Eric (Plug Guy): Senior; Loc:; Posts: 622, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 6, 2002

OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Buy an '09 if you can get one (short production run) without facelift/DI/upgrades but with new PCM (and probably still lousy exhaust note and no good steering wheels), or wait for facelifted '10 if it comes, and live with no GT1 block but with more power, more efficiency, more updates, etc?

Rumors I'm hearing are slightly facelifted '10's will also come with TTS package (parts bin dump) for final year run, and then no TT for '11, then redesigned whatever for '12. Of course, it's all hearsay.

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Jul 9, 2008 3:57:43 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Eric (Plug Guy)

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Quote:
Eric (Plug Guy) said:

Rumors I'm hearing are slightly facelifted '10's will also come with TTS package (parts bin dump) for final year run,

That is similar to what I heard recently (just on a rumour basis, of course).

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Jul 9, 2008 4:20:37 PM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

If you are going to modify or track the car a lot (or just want a 'keeper') then get a MY09, if not then wait for the MY10.

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Jul 9, 2008 4:22:21 PM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

My vote would be for 09 with newer PCM and old GT1 engine.
When it comes down to it, for the consumers the strongest reason to get the car with the new engine would be the POSSIBILITY of minimal lag. And the strongest reason to stay with the old engine is the FACT that you could mod the car to level of power unimaginable. I would take fact over possibility.

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Jul 9, 2008 4:33:23 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: cannga

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

My vote? I wouldn't wait longer than necessary; just order and do the normal wait. Get the GT1 engine and new PCM if possible. For near future who knows how things will go? Seems like most economies are gonna take a hit. Do it and enjoy. 2010 TT FL not worth it under these conditions.

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Jul 9, 2008 5:06:13 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: cannga

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Quote:
cannga said:
My vote would be for 09 with newer PCM and old GT1 engine.
When it comes down to it, for the consumers the strongest reason to get the car with the new engine would be the POSSIBILITY of minimal lag. And the strongest reason to stay with the old engine is the FACT that you could mod the car to level of power unimaginable. I would take fact over possibility.

You can get reliable 650 bhp with no internal mods to the engine. That new potato crate they intend to stick inside the car will be lucky to hold even its own 500 PS

.

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Jul 9, 2008 5:30:05 PM

RAKLAW: Co-Pilot; Loc: Westchester, NY; Posts: 233, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 6, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

I have already advised my dealer to pushback my deposit on an 09TT Cab. to a MY10. For me it was a no brainer. I don't track or are the least interested in tuning a warranty car from Porsche. I am anxious to try a PDK equipped car with LC.

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Jul 9, 2008 5:38:32 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: RAKLAW

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Eric - At this point in time imo it really doesnt pay to wait for a FL Turbo. If you wait that long may as well wait just a little bit longer and get the Turbo S. But if you get the S by the time you're actually driving it pictures of the next 911 will start surfacing (or soon thereafter anyway). Say you wait another couple of years & get the latest Turbo, by that time the next Turbo wont be that far away so you're going to be driving a Turbo for a very short time before it already looks like the previous generation. W/ Porsche you cant win by playing the waiting game because they're ALWAYS going to have something better around the corner (the exception to that rule however could come w/ the extiction of the GT1 block). The only way to win (imo) once your mind is made up in terms of which model (Turbo) is to get it as soon as you can and enjoy it the LONGEST. In other words - I much rather buy one of the newer renditions of a model & trade in when the next model is out than buy at the end of the cycle & wind up driving the previous generation, but that's just me.

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Jul 9, 2008 6:07:33 PM

Super Darius: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Italy-Como , Italy; Posts: 4084, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

well..also i don't know what to do

I have my 997TT from September 2006,so September next year when first TT MK2 will be delivered(like rumors tells),my car will be 3 years old..

and are a lot of years i don't stay with a car for so much time,but really i love it/she

Now i have 16000km on the speedo,september next year i will reach maybe 22/24 thousand..maybe less..

so,what to do?

Stay with my TT till the next all new Turbo in 2012,or change to the 997TT Mk2 next year as soon is available?

In 2012 my car will be 6 years old,and maybe with 60/70 thousand km...
till now i changed only the exhaust,so i'm not an extreme tune addict,maybe if i stay with mine i will make an ecu mods,and maybe some springs to lower it a little,but not other mods..
so also with the Mk2 i don't know if i can have problems due to GT1 engine loss...

I track the car 2/3 times for year..so,not much..

Sure till now i think to go again with manual,becouse i'm not so sure i like PDK..and sure i will take the MK2 again white(i love it),maybe with the new RS spyder rims(if i like it),sure GT2 seats..but not too much different from my current one..

so stay and tune,or change next year?

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Jul 9, 2008 6:12:30 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Super Darius

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Quote:
Super Darius said:
well..also i don't know what to do

I have my 997TT from September 2006,so September next year when first TT MK2 will be delivered(like rumors tells),my car will be 3 years old.. and are a lot of years i don't stay with a car for so much time,but really i love it/she
Now i have 16000km on the speedo,september next year i will reach maybe 22/24 thousand..maybe less..

so,what to do?

Stay with my TT till the next all new Turbo in 2012,or change to the 997TT Mk2 next year as soon is available?

In 2012 my car will be 6 years old,and maybe with 60/70 thousand km...
till now i changed only the exhaust,so i'm not an extreme tune addict,maybe if i stay with mine i will make an ecu mods,and maybe some springs to lower it a little,but not other mods..
so also with the Mk2 i don't know if i can have problems due to GT1 engine loss...
I track the car 2/3 times for year..so,not much..
Sure till now i think to go again with manual,becouse i'm not so sure i like PDK..and sure i will take the MK2 again white(i love it),maybe with the new RS spyder rims(if i like it),sure GT2 seats..but not too much different from my current one..

so stay and tune,or change next year?

In the end, the FL 997TT will not *feel* very different from the current version. Thus, if you just do that little mileage (thought of a joke first

) you could indeed consider keeping your current car. Economically speaking their is not much better than keeping a car for 6 years

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Jul 9, 2008 7:05:44 PM

Super Darius: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Italy-Como , Italy; Posts: 4084, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Economically speaking their is not much better than keeping a car for 6 years

this is sure,but can i resist for 6 years with the same car?this is the game

and i can't go with another brand..i'm married with Porsche

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Jul 9, 2008 7:10:15 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Super Darius

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Another thing regarding timing and new models? I think it is very rare for a guy to _regret_ his decision after it's made and/or the car is delivered. It's weird. Makes you think you can't go wrong either way.

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Jul 9, 2008 7:10:53 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: Super Darius

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Quote:
Super Darius said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
Economically speaking their is not much better than keeping a car for 6 years

this is sure,but can i resist for 6 years with the same car?this is the game
and i can't go with another brand..i'm married with Porsche

Even if she is cheating you big time

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Jul 9, 2008 8:02:23 PM

PandaMan: Senior; Loc: Canada , Vancouver; Posts: 503, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 1, 2006; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

I plan to keep my turbo for about 6-7 years. Maybe wait for a used 998 turbo to come around and snatch that up for a good deal, and then mod the crap out of it.

I still look at 996 turbos and admire them, I think the 997 turbo has even better long term looks to it then the previous 996. I have a feeling the 998 will not good that great, cuz I mean really where can the 911 design go from here? I think there gonna take it to a very futuristic styling look to it. Which will make the current 997 one of the best designs. But thats just one mans opinion.

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Jul 9, 2008 8:22:21 PM

993S: Senior; Loc: Europe; Posts: 694, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 24, 2006; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

If one plans to keep the MY09 for a very long time (+15years), keep it 100% stock and go easy on the mileage I would say definitely a 09.
This MY will become a very big classic and a highly sought after model.

On the other hand , if it is a (semi) DD and you are going to "use" the car and sell within 5-6years I would go for the MY10.

Facts : new engine will be better , stronger , lighter, more fuel efficient , lower center of gravity , etc etc. Please do not fall in the trap of all the nostalgic people who can't seem to stop complaining about the demise of on old engine design. If you study the new engine you soon realize this will become something special.
And when this engine will be dropped in the new GT3 RS and will go racing all the naysayers will become believers.

Regarding tuning the new engine : does anyone really believe company's like Ruf , Techart , etc won't be able to tune the new engine ??? Joking right ?
PDK is the limiting factor ? No prob , take manual. That is the preferred choice of the "tuner crowd" anyway. No big deal.

In the end both MY's are exiting. One side you get the very last "old and proven" , other side "exiting new technology". Both sides have their charms.

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Jul 9, 2008 8:45:23 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: 993S

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Quote:
993S said:
If one plans to keep the MY09 for a very long time (+15years), keep it 100% stock and go easy on the mileage I would say definitely a 09.
This MY will become a very big classic and a highly sought after model.

On the other hand , if it is a (semi) DD and you are going to "use" the car and sell within 5-6years I would go for the MY10.

Facts : new engine will be better , stronger , lighter, more fuel efficient , lower center of gravity , etc etc. Please do not fall in the trap of all the nostalgic people who can't seem to stop complaining about the demise of on old engine design. If you study the new engine you soon realize this will become something special.
And when this engine will be dropped in the new GT3 RS and will go racing all the naysayers will become believers.

Regarding tuning the new engine : does anyone really believe company's like Ruf , Techart , etc won't be able to tune the new engine ??? Joking right ?
PDK is the limiting factor ? No prob , take manual. That is the preferred choice of the "tuner crowd" anyway. No big deal.

In the end both MY's are exiting. One side you get the very last "old and proven" , other side "exiting new technology". Both sides have their charms.

993S, there is no problem with replacing an old design with a newer, better one, but the question is, will it actually be as durable and reliable as the old one?

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Jul 9, 2008 8:48:57 PM

devo: Veteran; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 1107, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2006; Reply to: Crash

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
cannga said:
My vote would be for 09 with newer PCM and old GT1 engine.
When it comes down to it, for the consumers the strongest reason to get the car with the new engine would be the POSSIBILITY of minimal lag. And the strongest reason to stay with the old engine is the FACT that you could mod the car to level of power unimaginable. I would take fact over possibility.

You can get reliable 650 bhp with no internal mods to the engine. That new potato crate they intend to stick inside the car will be lucky to hold even its own 500 PS .

With all due respect, I think that the new engine will be engineered well enough to easily hold its own 500bhp. I dare say that although likely not as "over-engineered" as the GT1 block, the GT2 will be over-engineered in its own right. If one were considering modding the car, then opt for the GT1, otherwise, I believe that the GT2 will quickly become the engine of choice. As time passes, imo, the GT1 will not likely be much more desirable than any other 997tt. No disrepect intended to anyone who owns a current tt, as it is an excellent car, imo.

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Jul 9, 2008 8:53:13 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: devo

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Quote:
devo said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
cannga said:
My vote would be for 09 with newer PCM and old GT1 engine.
When it comes down to it, for the consumers the strongest reason to get the car with the new engine would be the POSSIBILITY of minimal lag. And the strongest reason to stay with the old engine is the FACT that you could mod the car to level of power unimaginable. I would take fact over possibility.

You can get reliable 650 bhp with no internal mods to the engine. That new potato crate they intend to stick inside the car will be lucky to hold even its own 500 PS .

With all due respect, I think that the new engine will be engineered well enough to easily hold its own 500bhp. I dare say that although likely not as "over-engineered" as the GT1 block, the GT2 will be over-engineered in its own right. If one were considering modding the car, then opt for the GT1, otherwise, I believe that the GT2 will quickly become the engine of choice. As time passes, imo, the GT1 will not likely be much more desirable than any other 997tt. No disrepect intended to anyone who owns a current tt, as it is an excellent car, imo.

A major source of appeal for many guys here is exactly the modability of the GT1 block. You can make the Turbo hold its own against an Enzo for peanuts. That won't be happening anymore, now will it?

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Jul 9, 2008 9:12:44 PM

AAHTT: Senior; Loc: san diego , United States; Posts: 654, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 21, 2006; Reply to: 993S

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Quote:
993S said:
Regarding tuning the new engine : does anyone really believe company's like Ruf , Techart , etc won't be able to tune the new engine ??? Joking right ?
PDK is the limiting factor ? No prob , take manual. That is the preferred choice of the "tuner crowd" anyway. No big deal.

In the end both MY's are exiting. One side you get the very last "old and proven" , other side "exiting new technology". Both sides have their charms.

You may be right but who wants to be the guinea pig?
I consider myself and others here to be quite adventurous by adding some 200hp to our cars, but we kind of knew the engine could handled it, mine has been handling it for over 20k miles. So who wants to be the first to try the newly designed engine with some bigger VTGs, tune, exhaust etc., not me for sure

. it will be years before I trust it and my car which btw is 2 years old this week looks like a keeper

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Jul 9, 2008 9:13:46 PM

devo: Veteran; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 1107, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2006; Reply to: Crash

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
devo said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
cannga said:
My vote would be for 09 with newer PCM and old GT1 engine.
When it comes down to it, for the consumers the strongest reason to get the car with the new engine would be the POSSIBILITY of minimal lag. And the strongest reason to stay with the old engine is the FACT that you could mod the car to level of power unimaginable. I would take fact over possibility.

You can get reliable 650 bhp with no internal mods to the engine. That new potato crate they intend to stick inside the car will be lucky to hold even its own 500 PS .

With all due respect, I think that the new engine will be engineered well enough to easily hold its own 500bhp. I dare say that although likely not as "over-engineered" as the GT1 block, the GT2 will be over-engineered in its own right. If one were considering modding the car, then opt for the GT1, otherwise, I believe that the GT2 will quickly become the engine of choice. As time passes, imo, the GT1 will not likely be much more desirable than any other 997tt. No disrepect intended to anyone who owns a current tt, as it is an excellent car, imo.

A major source of appeal for many guys here is exactly the modability of the GT1 block. You can make the Turbo hold its own against an Enzo for peanuts. That won't be happening anymore, now will it?

I am not refuting that. The majority of buyers will not mod the car and thus will be better served buying the newer model, imo. Like I said, if modding is an option then the GT1 may be for you. I like the idea of the visual, interior and engine updates, so much that I am likely buying a fl tt instead of the 2009 C2S.

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Jul 10, 2008 5:38:50 AM

Super Darius: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Italy-Como , Italy; Posts: 4084, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Quote:
Super Darius said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
Economically speaking their is not much better than keeping a car for 6 years

this is sure,but can i resist for 6 years with the same car?this is the game
and i can't go with another brand..i'm married with Porsche

Even if she is cheating you big time

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Jul 10, 2008 8:01:59 AM

Moogle: Rennteam Master; Loc: Bay Area , United States; Posts: 5019, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 9, 2003; Reply to: Super Darius

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

I thought I would be buying Porsche's for a long time... but after a couple of 911s and the brand not really going anywhere but down...

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Jul 10, 2008 3:27:04 PM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Agreed. This is to me a critical point. Rumors come out what, 2 years before real introduction? Maybe 2010 for the 2012 998?
I will spiral into a depression (kidding, but it would be close) if I see pictures or hear rumors of next generation 911 while waiting for my current generation car to be delivered. No fun paying 150k for old news.

My 2 cents, YMMV: The best time to buy any car is year two of production. That means ***NOW***.

Quote:
STRADALE said:
Eric - At this point in time imo it really doesnt pay to wait for a FL Turbo. If you wait that long may as well wait just a little bit longer and get the Turbo S. But if you get the S by the time you're actually driving it pictures of the next 911 will start surfacing (or soon thereafter anyway). Say you wait another couple of years & get the latest Turbo, by that time the next Turbo wont be that far away so you're going to be driving a Turbo for a very short time before it already looks like the previous generation. W/ Porsche you cant win by playing the waiting game because they're ALWAYS going to have something better around the corner (the exception to that rule however could come w/ the extiction of the GT1 block). The only way to win (imo) once your mind is made up in terms of which model (Turbo) is to get it as soon as you can and enjoy it the LONGEST. In other words - I much rather buy one of the newer renditions of a model & trade in when the next model is out than buy at the end of the cycle & wind up driving the previous generation, but that's just me.

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Jul 10, 2008 3:28:37 PM

sparkhill: Junior; Loc: Reno, NV; Posts: 115, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 5, 2007; Reply to: Moogle

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

I am going with a MY2009. This will develop into a friendly rivalry with the MY 2007-2009 owners touting the heritage and tunability of their engine and the MY2010+ owners bragging about the efficiency and modernity of the new DFI engines.

Time marches on. While the 993 is considered by some to be the last great Porsche, not many of us drive one today. Same thing will happen with the GT1 997TT's. DFI will be a big improvement when comparing stock to stock, but I agree there will be far less room for aftermarket tuning. The days of 45% power increases with fairly inexpensive aftermarket mods are likely soon to be gone. The newer engine design will likely be a light, more efficient, high compression, less tunable engine. Probably 90% of TT owner won't know or care about the underlying engine changes - some salesman will tell them that the new engine is better, Porsche literature will tell them the new engine is better, and they will drink the Kool-Aid. In some regards the new engine will be better but will remain unproven for some time.

Regarding the promised elimination of turbo lag, I remain skeptical. Don't we hear this every time any manufacturer comes out with a new engine? Porsche may be able to further reduce lag or at least smooth power delivery so it seems less noticeable but I will bet it will still be there. "Less lag" has just been over-promised and under-delivered so many times before.

One other consideration is how long can Porsche keep subsidizing the US market? With current US currency exchange rates, $128,700 is a bargain like no other. Even with the savings associated with the new engine, will Porsche continue to supply the US market with "cheap" cars while sticking it to the rest of the world?

STRADALE really sums up the waiting game well...

Quote:
STRADALE said:
Eric - At this point in time imo it really doesnt pay to wait for a FL Turbo. If you wait that long may as well wait just a little bit longer and get the Turbo S. But if you get the S by the time you're actually driving it pictures of the next 911 will start surfacing (or soon thereafter anyway). Say you wait another couple of years & get the latest Turbo, by that time the next Turbo wont be that far away so you're going to be driving a Turbo for a very short time before it already looks like the previous generation. W/ Porsche you cant win by playing the waiting game because they're ALWAYS going to have something better around the corner (the exception to that rule however could come w/ the extiction of the GT1 block). The only way to win (imo) once your mind is made up in terms of which model (Turbo) is to get it as soon as you can and enjoy it the LONGEST. In other words - I much rather buy one of the newer renditions of a model & trade in when the next model is out than buy at the end of the cycle & wind up driving the previous generation, but that's just me.

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Jul 10, 2008 4:33:32 PM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: sparkhill

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Quote:
sparkhill said:

Time marches on. While the 993 is considered by some to be the last great Porsche, not many of us drive one today. Same thing will happen with the GT1 997TT's.

There is still a fair gang of us 993tt drivers who have ploughed enough $$$$ into the cars to make them still very able to hold their own in most measures in 2008

A majority of Porsche buyers need the latest models to project their egos and success, the vast majority of 997tt buyers most likely fall into this category (RTers excepted) and I seriously doubt they will have any special status (courtesy of GT1 block) in the future since the nuances of the advantages of "old block" will not maintain the romance and attraction of the "last of the handbuilt air cooled"

Also practically there will be just too many 997tts (GT1) in existance to allow the model to become classic

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Jul 11, 2008 12:37:48 AM

sparkhill: Junior; Loc: Reno, NV; Posts: 115, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 5, 2007; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

I was certainly not trying to detract from the 993. I was just trying to make the point that today's cars seem to become yesterday's cars very quickly. Nothing wrong with yesterday's cars (especially the classics like the 993) though.

Quote:
TB993tt said:
Quote:
sparkhill said:

Time marches on. While the 993 is considered by some to be the last great Porsche, not many of us drive one today. Same thing will happen with the GT1 997TT's.

There is still a fair gang of us 993tt drivers who have ploughed enough $$$$ into the cars to make them still very able to hold their own in most measures in 2008

A majority of Porsche buyers need the latest models to project their egos and success, the vast majority of 997tt buyers most likely fall into this category (RTers excepted) and I seriously doubt they will have any special status (courtesy of GT1 block) in the future since the nuances of the advantages of "old block" will not maintain the romance and attraction of the "last of the handbuilt air cooled"

Also practically there will be just too many 997tts (GT1) in existance to allow the model to become classic

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Motor Sp.	2023 Formula One	12/19/23 5:38 AM Whoopsy	115145	685
Porsche	2022 992 Safari Model	3/7/24 4:22 PM Whoopsy	87173	239
AMG	Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758	2/23/24 10:03 PM blueflame	77450	297
Porsche	992 GT3 RS	3/3/24 7:22 PM Whoopsy	56589	314
Motor Sp.	Porsche 963	5/18/24 9:44 PM Wonderbar	28350	249
Ferrari	Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6)	1/21/24 4:29 PM GT-Boy	22871	103
BMW M	2022 BMW M5 CS	4/8/24 1:43 PM Ferdie	21786	140
AMG	G63 sold out	9/15/23 7:38 PM Nico997	18097	120
AMG	[2022] Mercedes-AMG SL	4/23/24 1:24 PM RC	16206	225
Porsche	Porsche Mission X Hypercar	12/3/23 8:52 AM 996FourEss	12049	63
Porsche	911 S/T	10/10/23 8:53 AM RC	11259	55
Others	Tesla thread N°3	5/1/24 11:09 PM CGX car nut	9449	93

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OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

Re: OK, so what is consensus here....'09 TT?

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