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Re: 2010 GT3
Quote:
WR said:
how come only the 20hp increament
Maybe because 435hp from a 3.6 liter engine corresponds to 121hp / liter, which is a hell of a lot for a normally-aspirated road-car engine expected to fulfil international exhaust gas emission requirements, provide acceptable engine life, and be driveable for most of the customers likely to want to buy it.
Re: 2010 GT3
Quote:
fritz said:Quote:
WR said:
how come only the 20hp increament
Maybe because 435hp from a 3.6 liter engine corresponds to 121hp / liter, which is a hell of a lot for a normally-aspirated road-car engine expected to fulfil international exhaust gas emission requirements, provide acceptable engine life, and be driveable for most of the customers likely to want to buy it.
I agree, but if DFI added 30hp to the 3.8L, I bet we'll see something similar for the GT3, no?
Jun 23, 2008 12:29:05 AM
- TT Surgeon
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Jun 23, 2008 9:14:20 AM
- Crash
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Re: 2010 GT3
Quote:
TT Surgeon said:
I think that was the new rs. If the gt3 gets DI, then it also gets the new 'improved/unproved' 9A-1 version of the m97 wet sump motor, no thanks unless it's 25k less. Since they save so much on the engine, I'm sure they'll pass those savings along to the consumer.
"The new, 2010 911 GT3! We've made the engine worse, so that you, the customer, can enjoy the benefits of a cheaper price!" Not sure how that would fly, frankly...
Re: 2010 GT3
Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
TT Surgeon said:
I think that was the new rs. If the gt3 gets DI, then it also gets the new 'improved/unproved' 9A-1 version of the m97 wet sump motor, no thanks unless it's 25k less. Since they save so much on the engine, I'm sure they'll pass those savings along to the consumer.
"The new, 2010 911 GT3! We've made the engine worse, so that you, the customer, can enjoy the benefits of a cheaper price!" Not sure how that would fly, frankly...
Re: 2010 GT3
I might add a GT3 in a few years (998 with PDK & PSM & more torque ) and have watched the argument of old versus new engine with interest. I have close to zero knowledge on engine construction and therefore would appreciate your opinions please.
Based purely on "internet statistic" (no official data will ever come from PAG), while the old engine may be race proven, its track record for consumers appears to be not very good: http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/search.php?searchid=2952620
I would admit that this kind of "data" is shaky, but clearly there *are* problems since PAG doesn't sell that many GT3 in the US; we just don't know the percentage. So the question, what good is this race proven engine if it has a recurrent problem that affects the run-of-the-mill consumers? From an owner's standpoint, I would think how well the engine does on professional circuits is not relevant when that drop of oil appears on the floor. Am I correct in wishing for a new engine if I were to buy a GT3?
) and have watched the argument of old versus new engine with interest. I have close to zero knowledge on engine construction and therefore would appreciate your opinions please.
Based purely on "internet statistic" (no official data will ever come from PAG), while the old engine may be race proven, its track record for consumers appears to be not very good: http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/search.php?searchid=2952620
I would admit that this kind of "data" is shaky, but clearly there *are* problems since PAG doesn't sell that many GT3 in the US; we just don't know the percentage. So the question, what good is this race proven engine if it has a recurrent problem that affects the run-of-the-mill consumers? From an owner's standpoint, I would think how well the engine does on professional circuits is not relevant when that drop of oil appears on the floor. Am I correct in wishing for a new engine if I were to buy a GT3?
Re: 2010 GT3
Somehow the link in my post doesn't work. It is meant to be the result of a search for the word "RMS" on rennlist 997 GT forum: http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/forumdisplay.php?f=141
The result shows a disturbing number of RMS reports based on this small sample (sorry "internet forum statistic" is the best I could do). What's even more disturbing to me is some of these RMS problems recur soon after the initial repair. Love the GT3 but I would not want to own a car like this, and therefore am "voting" for the new engine.
The result shows a disturbing number of RMS reports based on this small sample (sorry "internet forum statistic" is the best I could do). What's even more disturbing to me is some of these RMS problems recur soon after the initial repair. Love the GT3 but I would not want to own a car like this, and therefore am "voting" for the new engine.
Quote:
cannga said:
I might add a GT3 in a few years (998 with PDK & PSM & more torque
Based purely on "internet statistic" (no official data will ever come from PAG), while the old engine may be race proven, its track record for consumers appears to be not very good: http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/search.php?searchid=2952620
I would admit that this kind of "data" is shaky, but clearly there *are* problems since PAG doesn't sell that many GT3 in the US; we just don't know the percentage. So the question, what good is this race proven engine if it has a recurrent problem that affects the run-of-the-mill consumers? From an owner's standpoint, I would think how well the engine does on professional circuits is not relevant when that drop of oil appears on the floor. Am I correct in wishing for a new engine if I were to buy a GT3?
Jun 30, 2008 9:41:54 PM
- cannga
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Re: 2010 GT3
Since I don't track my car, what I hope for is not more horsepower, but more torque. As currently implemented, it is too high strung of an engine with marginal torque figure. For me (YMMV): It is great for track, marginal for street, and hopelessly underpowered next to a Turbo.
Regardless, the real problem is RMS. Until it is solved, regardless of horsepower or torque, the GT3 is not an acceptable solution. Maybe 998.
I am so glad addition of the Bilstein PSS10 and track alignment means I won't have to give up my Turbo. Would eventually have a GT3, but only as my second Porsche and only for the weekends.
Regardless, the real problem is RMS. Until it is solved, regardless of horsepower or torque, the GT3 is not an acceptable solution. Maybe 998.
I am so glad addition of the Bilstein PSS10 and track alignment means I won't have to give up my Turbo. Would eventually have a GT3, but only as my second Porsche
and only for the weekends.
Quote:
Marwan Arakji said:
I read somewhere that the next GT3 could have the 3.8 and as much as 450 bhp!!!
Jun 30, 2008 10:12:53 PM
- Grant
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Re: 2010 GT3
Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
Marwan Arakji said:
I read somewhere that the next GT3 could have the 3.8 and as much as 450 bhp!!!
That would be 118.4 hp/L. That is alot but possible (Honda made 120 hp/L almost 10 years ago with the S2000)
I humbly suggest PAG move up to a flat-8 to about 4.2L for starters, which will get to over 500HP normally aspirated on 120 HP/L (120 X 4.2 = 504). Then abnormally aspirated (turbo's) really gets the power and torque figures up there for the torquephiles like me out there.
Jul 1, 2008 2:39:35 PM
- Grant
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Re: 2010 GT3
Quote:
TT Surgeon said:
Well that was the buzz from Hurley Haywood when I was down in 'bama a few months ago...flat 8.
Really? Did he seem confident it would happen or just shooting the breeze with his ideas? I think it would be great as long as it can be made physically small and light enough.
Re: 2010 GT3
Quote:
mex99 said:
That's why you've got to get a FL 997 - this may be the last flat 6 911 and with DFI, PDK it may become a classic?
If the FL997 becomes a classic, you'll be much better off having one with a 6spd manual. PDK will be improved in the future and manual will be phased out eventually...
Re: 2010 GT3
classic is a relative term and i sorta doubt if we'll know any time soon if that term can be applied to any massproduced 997....imo if that were to happen it would be first generation variant as that has the simple lines with less designy features, dippy lights, giant mirrors, arbitrary red plastic etc. etc.
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