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    Jun 18, 2008 6:11:27 AM

    Laertes
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    Laertes
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    Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Anybody able to decipher the limited slip diff options on the new '09 order guide? There are two options; the first is code 220 ("Limited Slip rear differential lock") at $950, available on both the C2 and C2S. This requires 19" wheels, but doesn't require anything else, i.e. it doesn't require PASM for a C2 (the C2S comes standard with PASM). The other option is code P17 ("PASM Sports Suspension Package") which includes "Electronically variable active damping system with two manually selectable modes and limited slip rear differential lock. Ride height lowered by 20 mm." This also costs $950 for a C2S but $2940 for a C2.

    I think for a C2 the options kind of make sense: Code 220 if you only want LSD and no PASM (for $950) and code P17 (for $2940) if you want LSD plus PASM.

    But for the C2S it's a little more confusing. Since code 220 can be ordered by itself, I think that means it works with standard PASM (i.e. the normal 10 mm lowered suspension, not the 20mm lowered sports suspension). If you want both, you order the P17 option and you get both the sports suspension and the LSD.

    The funny thing is, though I think I'm probably right in my assumptions above, the fact that that would mean that Porsche is giving away the Sports version of PASM for the same price as the standard PASM is what makes me think I must be wrong, as Porsche isn't known for freebies....

    Anyway, the reason I'm trying to figure this out is I'm submitting my order tomorrow and I want to make sure that you aren't supposed to order BOTH code 220 and P17 if you want LSD AND Sport PASM. After all, if they are mutually exclusive (as I'm assuming due to the above logic) the spot on the order guide for "conflict" should have the code for the opposite item in it.

    I apologize for the long (and probably fairly confusing) post. If anyone has any insights I'd appreciate it.

    Jun 18, 2008 6:18:52 AM

    GnilM
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    Reply to: Laertes

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    The sports suspension has always been a 'no cost option'.
    I have it on my C4S.

    I have placed an order for a C2S and have taken option P17, in order to have sport suspension ( -20mm) + LSD. No need for option 220.

    Jun 18, 2008 8:28:31 AM

    kashmir
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    Reply to: GnilM

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Agree....same for me.

    My Carrera 2S order is now configured with PASM Sport plus LSD. The LSD is charged by now with Euro 1100.

    Jun 18, 2008 8:37:31 AM

    Adam2S Offline
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    Reply to: Laertes

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    220 is the same option as before. Its a no cost option on the "S" and replaces the PASM -10mm suspension with traditional suspension with a -20mm and the LSD.

    Search the old 220 option on the forum for more details. In summary its the prefered option for tracking the car, but generally speaking dealers frown upon it for resale on road cars. That said those who have choosen it tend to swear by it for road use too.

    So basically the FL now has 3 options on an "S".

    -10mm PASM (Standard Spec)
    -20mm PASM & LSD (Cost option)
    -20mm Traditional & LSD (No cost option)

    As always the choice is yours...

    Jun 18, 2008 8:52:33 AM

    reginos
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    Reply to: Adam2S

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    NO! 220 ia a stand alone option It is a LSD for Carrera and Carrera S provided that the carrera is fitted with 19" wheels. It is standard on all 4wd incl. targa.
    Also from what I see, the -20mm traditional + LSD (030)is only given for the C4 (cost option) and C4S (no cost option).
    The PASM sport + LSD (P17) is a cost option for both rear wheel drive models.
    So no RWD + traditional sports suspension!

    Jun 18, 2008 10:41:10 AM

    devo
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    Reply to: Laertes

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Quote:
    Laertes said:
    Anybody able to decipher the limited slip diff options on the new '09 order guide? There are two options; the first is code 220 ("Limited Slip rear differential lock") at $950, available on both the C2 and C2S. This requires 19" wheels, but doesn't require anything else, i.e. it doesn't require PASM for a C2 (the C2S comes standard with PASM). The other option is code P17 ("PASM Sports Suspension Package") which includes "Electronically variable active damping system with two manually selectable modes and limited slip rear differential lock. Ride height lowered by 20 mm." This also costs $950 for a C2S but $2940 for a C2.

    I think for a C2 the options kind of make sense: Code 220 if you only want LSD and no PASM (for $950) and code P17 (for $2940) if you want LSD plus PASM.

    But for the C2S it's a little more confusing. Since code 220 can be ordered by itself, I think that means it works with standard PASM (i.e. the normal 10 mm lowered suspension, not the 20mm lowered sports suspension). If you want both, you order the P17 option and you get both the sports suspension and the LSD.

    The funny thing is, though I think I'm probably right in my assumptions above, the fact that that would mean that Porsche is giving away the Sports version of PASM for the same price as the standard PASM is what makes me think I must be wrong, as Porsche isn't known for freebies....

    Anyway, the reason I'm trying to figure this out is I'm submitting my order tomorrow and I want to make sure that you aren't supposed to order BOTH code 220 and P17 if you want LSD AND Sport PASM. After all, if they are mutually exclusive (as I'm assuming due to the above logic) the spot on the order guide for "conflict" should have the code for the opposite item in it.

    I apologize for the long (and probably fairly confusing) post. If anyone has any insights I'd appreciate it.



    I believe that the SPASM option is free on the C2S. You pay for LSD as you said. I also believe that our Euro friends have had it this way too. I was also expecting another 20mm drop, but as you say, it's only another 10mm for a C2S.

    Jun 18, 2008 11:16:53 AM

    reginos
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    Reply to: devo

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Quote:
    devo said:
    Quote:
    Laertes said:
    Anybody able to decipher the limited slip diff options on the new '09 order guide? There are two options; the first is code 220 ("Limited Slip rear differential lock") at $950, available on both the C2 and C2S. This requires 19" wheels, but doesn't require anything else, i.e. it doesn't require PASM for a C2 (the C2S comes standard with PASM). The other option is code P17 ("PASM Sports Suspension Package") which includes "Electronically variable active damping system with two manually selectable modes and limited slip rear differential lock. Ride height lowered by 20 mm." This also costs $950 for a C2S but $2940 for a C2.

    I think for a C2 the options kind of make sense: Code 220 if you only want LSD and no PASM (for $950) and code P17 (for $2940) if you want LSD plus PASM.

    But for the C2S it's a little more confusing. Since code 220 can be ordered by itself, I think that means it works with standard PASM (i.e. the normal 10 mm lowered suspension, not the 20mm lowered sports suspension). If you want both, you order the P17 option and you get both the sports suspension and the LSD.

    The funny thing is, though I think I'm probably right in my assumptions above, the fact that that would mean that Porsche is giving away the Sports version of PASM for the same price as the standard PASM is what makes me think I must be wrong, as Porsche isn't known for freebies....

    Anyway, the reason I'm trying to figure this out is I'm submitting my order tomorrow and I want to make sure that you aren't supposed to order BOTH code 220 and P17 if you want LSD AND Sport PASM. After all, if they are mutually exclusive (as I'm assuming due to the above logic) the spot on the order guide for "conflict" should have the code for the opposite item in it.

    I apologize for the long (and probably fairly confusing) post. If anyone has any insights I'd appreciate it.



    I believe that the SPASM option is free on the C2S. You pay for LSD as you said. I also believe that our Euro friends have had it this way too. I was also expecting another 20mm drop, but as you say, it's only another 10mm for a C2S.


    The sport PASM (-20mm) with LSD is a cost extra now. The pre-FL no cost option of non-PASM -20mm plus LSD is not available for 2WD anymore.
    P17= Sport PASM(-20mm) and LSD.
    NO need to order 220 LSD separately.

    Jun 18, 2008 11:30:59 AM

    devo
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    devo said:
    Quote:
    Laertes said:
    Anybody able to decipher the limited slip diff options on the new '09 order guide? There are two options; the first is code 220 ("Limited Slip rear differential lock") at $950, available on both the C2 and C2S. This requires 19" wheels, but doesn't require anything else, i.e. it doesn't require PASM for a C2 (the C2S comes standard with PASM). The other option is code P17 ("PASM Sports Suspension Package") which includes "Electronically variable active damping system with two manually selectable modes and limited slip rear differential lock. Ride height lowered by 20 mm." This also costs $950 for a C2S but $2940 for a C2.

    I think for a C2 the options kind of make sense: Code 220 if you only want LSD and no PASM (for $950) and code P17 (for $2940) if you want LSD plus PASM.

    But for the C2S it's a little more confusing. Since code 220 can be ordered by itself, I think that means it works with standard PASM (i.e. the normal 10 mm lowered suspension, not the 20mm lowered sports suspension). If you want both, you order the P17 option and you get both the sports suspension and the LSD.

    The funny thing is, though I think I'm probably right in my assumptions above, the fact that that would mean that Porsche is giving away the Sports version of PASM for the same price as the standard PASM is what makes me think I must be wrong, as Porsche isn't known for freebies....

    Anyway, the reason I'm trying to figure this out is I'm submitting my order tomorrow and I want to make sure that you aren't supposed to order BOTH code 220 and P17 if you want LSD AND Sport PASM. After all, if they are mutually exclusive (as I'm assuming due to the above logic) the spot on the order guide for "conflict" should have the code for the opposite item in it.

    I apologize for the long (and probably fairly confusing) post. If anyone has any insights I'd appreciate it.



    I believe that the SPASM option is free on the C2S. You pay for LSD as you said. I also believe that our Euro friends have had it this way too. I was also expecting another 20mm drop, but as you say, it's only another 10mm for a C2S.


    The sport PASM (-20mm) with LSD is a cost extra now. The pre-FL no cost option of non-PASM -20mm plus LSD is not available for 2WD anymore.
    P17= Sport PASM(-20mm) and LSD.
    NO need to order 220 LSD separately.



    We never had the sport susp. in the states. The MY2009 order guide has the LSD as a stand alone option. I'll be getting SPASM w/LSD on my C2S.

    Jun 18, 2008 11:47:42 AM

    reginos
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    Reply to: devo

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Quote:
    devo said:
    We never had the sport susp. in the states. The MY2009 order guide has the LSD as a stand alone option. I'll be getting SPASM w/LSD on my C2S.


    Yes the 030 (non PASM sports+LSD) was a ROW No Cost Option on 997.1.
    Enjoy your new car

    Jun 18, 2008 12:17:41 PM

    Adam2S Offline
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    The sport PASM (-20mm) with LSD is a cost extra now. The pre-FL no cost option of non-PASM -20mm plus LSD is not available for 2WD anymore.
    P17= Sport PASM(-20mm) and LSD.
    NO need to order 220 LSD separately.



    It looks to me from the US Order Form like the old option for LSD with non-PASM suspension is still available on 2S (code220), albeit that in the US they have to pay $950 whereas in ROW it was (not about sure now?) free.

    So it seems the "S" now has 3 options for suspension. Prices as per US.

    std = -10mm no LSD, with PASM $0 (free standard spec)
    220 = -20mm with LSD, non-PASM $950
    P17 = -20mm with LSD, with PASM $950

    ====================

    edit - ok, now Im really confused. I have just used the UK configurator and the code it quotes for the 997.1 -20mm +LSD suspension option (which we know is without PASM) as being code P17 which seems to conflict with the US Price list as P17 seems to be the new PASM -20mm with LSD???

    Jun 18, 2008 12:26:18 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: Adam2S

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    P17 997.1= -20mm/LSD

    P17 997.2= -20mm SPASM/LSD

    220 LSD is a new option


    Regarding standard suspension vs PASM vs SPASM...

    1310mm H standard 997.2 Carrera
    1300mm H PASM 997.2 Carrera and Carrera S
    1290mm H SPASM 997.2 Carrera and Carrera S

    Jun 18, 2008 12:27:51 PM

    reginos
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    Reply to: Adam2S

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Quote:
    Adam2S said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:
    The sport PASM (-20mm) with LSD is a cost extra now. The pre-FL no cost option of non-PASM -20mm plus LSD is not available for 2WD anymore.
    P17= Sport PASM(-20mm) and LSD.
    NO need to order 220 LSD separately.



    It looks to me from the US Order Form like the old option for LSD with non-PASM suspension is still available on 2S (code220), albeit that in the US they have to pay $950 whereas in ROW it was (not about sure now?) free.

    So it seems the "S" now has 3 options for suspension. Prices as per US.

    std = -10mm with PASM $0 (free standard spec)
    220 = -20mm non-PASM $950
    P17 = -20mm with PASM $950


    Option 220 is a LSD with standard suspension which in the case of 3.6lt is normal non-PASM and in 3.8lt S is the PASM -10mm.
    You can get for both 3.6 and 3.8 the P17 option which is extra at cost and you get Sport PASM -20mm plus LSD.
    In the 997.1 in Europe the sport suspension (without PASM) plus LSD was a NCO for carrera S in the sense that they took away the standard PASM and gave you a LSD.
    The option with non-PASM sport plus LSD is not available in 997.2 at least in the 2WD models so far announced.

    Jun 18, 2008 12:37:42 PM

    Adam2S Offline
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    ok I get it now... No wonder the original poster was confused!

    So its actually ("S" only) :

    997.1
    475 = -10mm no LSD, with PASM $0 (free standard spec)
    P17 = -20mm with LSD, non-PASM $???

    997.2
    475 = -10mm no LSD, with PASM $0 (free standard spec)
    220 = -10mm with LSD, with PASM $950
    P17 = -20mm with LSD, with PASM $950

    Im assuming that there isnt any other difference in SPASM and PASM other than the -20mm -v- -10mm? I havnt seen anything indicating that the 2 modes is SPASM are firmer than the 2 modes in PASM?

    Jun 18, 2008 12:50:55 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: Adam2S

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Quote:
    Adam2S said:
    ok I get it now... No wonder the original poster was confused!

    So its actually ("S" only) :

    997.1
    475 = -10mm no LSD, with PASM $0 (free standard spec)
    P17 = -20mm with LSD, non-PASM $???

    997.2
    475 = -10mm no LSD, with PASM $0 (free standard spec)
    220 = -10mm with LSD, with PASM $950
    P17 = -20mm with LSD, with PASM $950

    Im assuming that there isnt any other difference in SPASM and PASM other than the -20mm -v- -10mm? I havnt seen anything indicating that the 2 modes is SPASM are firmer than the 2 modes in PASM?



    NO.

    997.1

    475 PASM(-10mm) standard on S, upcharge on non S
    P17 -20mm/LSD(conventional non PASM sport suspension) NO upcharge option on S, upcharge option on non S

    997.2

    475 PASM(-10mm) standard on S, upcharge on non S
    P17 SPASM(sport PASM -20mm/LSD) upcharge on both versions
    220 LSD option on both versions(on standard model can be ordered with both standard suspension or PASM, only must are 19" wheels) LSD is part of P17

    Jun 18, 2008 12:52:31 PM

    reginos
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    Reply to: Adam2S

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Quote:
    Adam2S said:
    ok I get it now... No wonder the original poster was confused!

    So its actually ("S" only) :

    997.1
    475 = -10mm no LSD, with PASM $0 (free standard spec)
    P17 = -20mm with LSD, non-PASM $???

    997.2
    475 = -10mm no LSD, with PASM $0 (free standard spec)
    220 = -10mm with LSD, with PASM $950
    P17 = -20mm with LSD, with PASM $950

    Im assuming that there isnt any other difference in SPASM and PASM other than the -20mm -v- -10mm? I havnt seen anything indicating that the 2 modes is SPASM are firmer than the 2 modes in PASM?


    Correct!
    The -20mm suspension will most probably have in addition to the 10mm shorter springs, firmer spring rates and the anti-roll bars and geometry may be different too.
    The two stage switchable PASM/SPASM only affects the firmness of shock absorbers and these may be the same but the rest of the suspension components may differ.

    Jun 18, 2008 1:21:24 PM

    Adam2S Offline
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Isnt that exactly the same as I put Kreso??? I did put "S" only at the beginning of my quote as the original poster was iterested in only "S"

    Jun 18, 2008 1:34:43 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: Adam2S

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Quote:
    Adam2S said:
    Isnt that exactly the same as I put Kreso??? I did put "S" only at the beginning of my quote as the original poster was iterested in only "S"



    YES. Sorry! I did not see only S...

    Jun 18, 2008 1:42:56 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    I think a Standard Carrera 3.6 with standard suspension and LSD (220) is a nice choice for adding Moton suspension aftermarket

    Jun 18, 2008 1:52:37 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    I think a Standard Carrera 3.6 with standard suspension and LSD (220) is a nice choice for adding Moton suspension aftermarket



    Interesting option!

    Just about 0.1% of buyers will go that way...

    IMHO SPASM is good compromise since it is based on 997 GT3 suspension.

    Jun 18, 2008 2:25:28 PM

    kashmir
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Guys...I finalised my Carrera S (997-2) order last week with Porsche, meaning within their order system. I picked the PASM Sport, which costs me approx Euro 1.100k list price, since it comes with the LSD... the combination is a premise, there the sports chassis is not for free anymore.

    BTW....my car will be build and delivered by laast week of July

    Jun 18, 2008 2:31:39 PM

    reginos
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    Reply to: kashmir

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Quote:
    kashmir said:
    Guys...I finalised my Carrera S (997-2) order last week with Porsche, meaning within their order system. I picked the PASM Sport, which costs me approx Euro 1.100k list price, since it comes with the LSD... the combination is a premise, there the sports chassis is not for free anymore.

    BTW....my car will be build and delivered by laast week of July


    It wasn't free before either. They didn't charge you but you lost the PASM option in place of the LSD. Remember the previous Sports suspension (-20mm) was only available with conventional shocks now it is PASM. What you really pay for now is the cost of the LSD option.

    Jun 18, 2008 2:33:02 PM

    kashmir
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    kashmir said:
    Guys...I finalised my Carrera S (997-2) order last week with Porsche, meaning within their order system. I picked the PASM Sport, which costs me approx Euro 1.100k list price, since it comes with the LSD... the combination is a premise, there the sports chassis is not for free anymore.

    BTW....my car will be build and delivered by laast week of July


    It wasn't free before either. They didn't charge you but you lost the PASM option in place of the LSD. Remember the previous Sports suspension (-20mm) was only available with conventional shocks now it is PASM. What you really pay for now is the cost of the LSD option.



    Correct!

    Jun 18, 2008 2:34:15 PM

    reginos
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    Reply to: kashmir

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Quote:
    kashmir said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    kashmir said:
    Guys...I finalised my Carrera S (997-2) order last week with Porsche, meaning within their order system. I picked the PASM Sport, which costs me approx Euro 1.100k list price, since it comes with the LSD... the combination is a premise, there the sports chassis is not for free anymore.

    BTW....my car will be build and delivered by laast week of July


    It wasn't free before either. They didn't charge you but you lost the PASM option in place of the LSD. Remember the previous Sports suspension (-20mm) was only available with conventional shocks now it is PASM. What you really pay for now is the cost of the LSD option.



    Correct!


    Enjoy the new car

    Jun 18, 2008 2:35:52 PM

    kashmir
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Quote:
    reginos said:


    Correct!


    Enjoy the new car



    Thanks.... I am counting the days!

    Jun 18, 2008 2:51:50 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Quote:
    Grant said:
    I think a Standard Carrera 3.6 with standard suspension and LSD (220) is a nice choice for adding Moton suspension aftermarket



    Interesting option!

    Just about 0.1% of buyers will go that way...


    It's no fun being "Normal" I'd get the manual 6 speed too...

    Jun 20, 2008 11:00:31 PM

    MichaelL
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Why doesn't someone contact PCNA for an authoritative explanation of the options? Opinions are one thing and facts another.

    Jun 21, 2008 1:39:10 AM

    Laertes
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    Reply to: MichaelL

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Quote:
    MichaelL said:
    Why doesn't someone contact PCNA for an authoritative explanation of the options? Opinions are one thing and facts another.




    That was the first thing I did. I got customer service at 1-800-PORSCHE and the guy I talked to kept trying to tell me what a limited slip differential did. I think he was reading from a script. I don't know how the average person (i.e. non-dealer) gets in touch with the definitive answer at PCNA.

    Jun 21, 2008 6:37:03 AM

    GnilM
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    Reply to: MichaelL

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Quote:
    MichaelL said:
    Why doesn't someone contact PCNA for an authoritative explanation of the options? Opinions are one thing and facts another.



    All the FACTS have been posted on this thread !
    You just need to select the right ones

    Jun 22, 2008 2:33:42 AM

    Silver Bullet
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    Reply to: GnilM

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    I'm confused too. I was of the impression that North American C2Ss could now get a -20 mm suspension with LSD, but that they still came with PASM and that the -20mm sport suspension with LSD that had previously been available only outside NA on the MkI 997 was NOT available on the mkII 997.

    Can someone who understands this briefly outline the suspension options available in North America now for a C2 and a C2S?

    Jun 22, 2008 8:05:46 AM

    GnilM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Gnil
    Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland
    Posts: 14174, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 11, 2005
    Reply to: Silver Bullet

    Re: Confusing LSD options on the '09 order guide

    Quote:
    Silver Bullet said:
    I'm confused too. I was of the impression that North American C2Ss could now get a -20 mm suspension with LSD, but that they still came with PASM and that the -20mm sport suspension with LSD that had previously been available only outside NA on the MkI 997 was NOT available on the mkII 997.

    Can someone who understands this briefly outline the suspension options available in North America now for a C2 and a C2S?



    You are correct
     
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