Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True - Page1

Jun 17, 2008 4:50:57 PM

Jean: Veteran; Loc: Seoul , South Korea; Posts: 1033, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 14, 2002

GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Just watched GT-R's 7:29 video on the latest Best Motoring video. They make it absolutely clear that this IS the same spec as the normal GT-R Export model not the Japanese market spec. Best Motoring was invited to video the lap as an evidence.

Fantastic achievement for Nissan and now watch out Porsche.
Technically, GT-R is the 911 Turbo that should have been built. Too much marketing and too little engineering nowadays at Porsche.

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Jun 17, 2008 5:04:10 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Jean

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

I've never read a bad review of a Porsche car from Boxster/Cayman (even Clarkson likes the new RS60 now!)to Cayenne to GT3 to Carrera GT.
Also I've never driven a Porsche that didn't make me feel good!
So it must be more than marketing i.e. lots of substance.
Now Nissan made a very fast and technologically advanced car which might not be to everyone's taste both visually and conceptually, but nevertheless may I say bravo and good luck to them.
That's all nothing more nothing less. Whoever wants a fast Nissan can go and get one and be happy and impress his friends in the pub about the 7.29 time and feel proud!

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Jun 17, 2008 5:22:17 PM

Jean: Veteran; Loc: Seoul , South Korea; Posts: 1033, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 14, 2002; Reply to: reginos

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

The best part of it all is that Nissan has beaten Porsche in its own N-ring lap time game. Also because, nobody really takes it more seriously other than Porsche fans.

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Jun 17, 2008 5:22:17 PM

thuggy: Veteran; Loc: PA & CA , United States; Posts: 834, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 22, 2006; Reply to: reginos

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

The original press release for Ghosn said it was a base specification car with standard japanese tires. This now says an export spec car. A member on this board went to a GTR event in Portugal and had an engineer confirm to him that it was a tweaked car.

Sounds like Porsche isn't the only marketing company here.

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Jun 17, 2008 5:25:08 PM

Jean: Veteran; Loc: Seoul , South Korea; Posts: 1033, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 14, 2002; Reply to: thuggy

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Quote:
thuggy said:
The original press release for Ghosn said it was a base specification car with standard japanese tires. This now says an export spec car. A member on this board went to a GTR event in Portugal and had an engineer confirm to him that it was a tweaked car.

Sounds like Porsche isn't the only marketing company here.

In the video, it said, the only difference to the Japanese spec model was minor tweaks, such as GPS antenna, different wiper blades, suspension set-ups. I don't think they are cheating. All manufacturers change these items from country to country, including Porsche, if you remember warts and jacked-up suspensions on the US 996 Turbos. Fundamentally different from cheating that Mercedes did with its SL years ago.

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Jun 17, 2008 5:31:20 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Jean

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Quote:
Jean said:
Just watched GT-R's 7:29 video on the latest Best Motoring video. They make it absolutely clear that this IS the same spec as the normal GT-R Export model not the Japanese market spec. Best Motoring was invited to video the lap as an evidence.

Fantastic achievement for Nissan and now watch out Porsche.
Technically, GT-R is the 911 Turbo that should have been built. Too much marketing and too little engineering nowadays at Porsche.

It is no news that Nissan still *claims* a 7.29 time. However, claiming and proving are two different things. Who can verify whether the test car was not tuned? Why don't they send a test car to Sportauto (or any other magazine willing to do a NBR test)? Nissan claims are (most likely) marketing BS

What we need are figures comparable to the existing Porsche lap times. Such figures could be provided by Sportauto only (same test conditions...).

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Jun 17, 2008 5:38:53 PM

Jean: Veteran; Loc: Seoul , South Korea; Posts: 1033, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 14, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Guilty until proven otherwise then?

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Jun 17, 2008 5:44:25 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Jean

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Quote:
Jean said:
The best part of it all is that Nissan has beaten Porsche in its own N-ring lap time game. Also because, nobody really takes it more seriously other than Porsche fans.

I am a Porsche fan and what is more important I've been a repeat customer for many years now, and the 7.29 is the last criterion for me and the vast majority in choosing a car.
Anyway, for mere mortals these NBR times are an irrelevance and they don't indicate the pleasure from owning a car day in day out and using it in a variety of conditions and for many different uses.
I don't know what cars you own or drive or how competent driver you are but if you fancy the Nissan put your money where your mouth is and go and buy it. Then go to the NBR and send me a message with your time. Perhaps 15 mins? So what does the 7.29 do for you?

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Jun 17, 2008 5:55:32 PM

Jean: Veteran; Loc: Seoul , South Korea; Posts: 1033, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 14, 2002; Reply to: reginos

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Quote:
reginos said:
Quote:
Jean said:
The best part of it all is that Nissan has beaten Porsche in its own N-ring lap time game. Also because, nobody really takes it more seriously other than Porsche fans.

I am a Porsche fan and what is more important I've been a repeat customer for many years now, and the 7.29 is the last criterion for me and the vast majority in choosing a car.
Anyway, for mere mortals these NBR times are an irrelevance and they don't indicate the pleasure from owning a car day in day out and using it in a variety of conditions and for many different uses.
I don't know what cars you own or drive or how competent driver you are but if you fancy the Nissan put your money where your mouth is and go and buy it. Then go to the NBR and send me a message with your time. Perhaps 15 mins? So what does the 7.29 do for you?

Dear Reginos,

There is no need to be hostile and attack me personally. This is supposed to be a place for friendly discussion. I understand that you can get emotionally involved with Porsche as a brand as I am also a long-time Porsche customer and Porschephile as well. I hope that this GT-R can give Porsche an awakening, so that they start to produce a better product. I do believe their development in engineering has been delayed over the past years and I'm tired of this 'perceived quality' sh*t.

Cheers,
J

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Jun 17, 2008 5:57:24 PM

PinKchampagnE: Pilot; Loc: Fr , France; Posts: 310, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 10, 2007; Reply to: Jean

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

I've stopped reading after 'Best Motoring'...

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Jun 17, 2008 6:02:57 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21156, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Jean

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Oh mo, here we go again

whats this, the third or fourth thread about the same thing?!

Quote:
Jean said:
Just watched GT-R's 7:29 video on the latest Best Motoring video. They make it absolutely clear that this IS the same spec as the normal GT-R Export model not the Japanese market spec. Best Motoring was invited to video the lap as an evidence.

Best Motoring as witness??? are you kidding me?

... people will just believe anything without even questioning or contrasting it if they realy want to be believe it.

Why don't people want to wait until HvS does the supertest before coming to premarture conclusions on ring lap times based on manufacturer claims is something I cannot understand. So if Rorhl comes out and says the new GT2 laps the ring under 7:10 and provides a video without independant control of the car's specs and driver and invites a few friends to witness we are all suppposed to believe it?

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Jun 17, 2008 6:33:32 PM

Jean: Veteran; Loc: Seoul , South Korea; Posts: 1033, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 14, 2002; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

All discussions aside whether Nissan is lying or not. Why hasn't Porsche developed a 911 Turbo with PDK, 480hp at the wheels, high-tech 20 inch tires, highly tuned suspensions and brakes, with smart torque distribution at each wheels that is faster than the Carrera GT, NOW? Brand hierarchy perhaps?

Isn't this the ultimate 911 Turbo and 959 successor that everyone wants?

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Jun 17, 2008 6:35:59 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Jean

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Quote:
Jean said:
Quote:
reginos said:
Quote:
Jean said:
The best part of it all is that Nissan has beaten Porsche in its own N-ring lap time game. Also because, nobody really takes it more seriously other than Porsche fans.

I am a Porsche fan and what is more important I've been a repeat customer for many years now, and the 7.29 is the last criterion for me and the vast majority in choosing a car.
Anyway, for mere mortals these NBR times are an irrelevance and they don't indicate the pleasure from owning a car day in day out and using it in a variety of conditions and for many different uses.
I don't know what cars you own or drive or how competent driver you are but if you fancy the Nissan put your money where your mouth is and go and buy it. Then go to the NBR and send me a message with your time. Perhaps 15 mins? So what does the 7.29 do for you?

Dear Reginos,

There is no need to be hostile and attack me personally. This is supposed to be a place for friendly discussion. I understand that you can get emotionally involved with Porsche as a brand as I am also a long-time Porsche customer and Porschephile as well. I hope that this GT-R can give Porsche an awakening, so that they start to produce a better product. I do believe their development in engineering has been delayed over the past years and I'm tired of this 'perceived quality' sh*t.

Cheers,
J

Nothing like it at all! I am not attacking you personally I am just in disagreement with your ideas. Moreover, I am not emotionally involved or committed to any brand and I like many other cars besides Porsche. It is just that I find this 7.29 issue and its ramifications on rennteam amd elsewhere very over-stretched and somewhat childish to be honest.
I would hold the same view if the new GT2 say, does 7.22 and lots of Rohrl wannabes who could do a 20 min lap rave about it!
Anyway enjoy your evening

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Jun 17, 2008 6:56:16 PM

thuggy: Veteran; Loc: PA & CA , United States; Posts: 834, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 22, 2006; Reply to: Jean

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Quote:
Jean said:
All discussions aside whether Nissan is lying or not. Why hasn't Porsche developed a 911 Turbo with PDK, 480hp at the wheels, high-tech 20 inch tires, highly tuned suspensions and brakes, with smart torque distribution at each wheels that is faster than the Carrera GT, NOW? Brand hierarchy perhaps?

Isn't this the ultimate 911 Turbo and 959 successor that everyone wants?

The ultimate 911, the GT2 did the Ring in 7:33 according to Sport Auto with 530hp and 227kg less weight than a GTR. This is why most are skeptical. But again, this was all covered before.

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Jun 17, 2008 7:13:10 PM

gangajas: Senior; Loc: Spain , Spain; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 8, 2004; Reply to: thuggy

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

The thing is, if HvS was given that same unit that Suzuki san used for the time attack, would he be able to go round the Nordschleife in a similar time to that achieved by the Japanese tester?

Maybe in this case the key factor is the drive?

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Jun 18, 2008 6:16:05 AM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: thuggy

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Quote:
thuggy said:
Quote:
Jean said:
All discussions aside whether Nissan is lying or not. Why hasn't Porsche developed a 911 Turbo with PDK, 480hp at the wheels, high-tech 20 inch tires, highly tuned suspensions and brakes, with smart torque distribution at each wheels that is faster than the Carrera GT, NOW? Brand hierarchy perhaps?

Isn't this the ultimate 911 Turbo and 959 successor that everyone wants?

The ultimate 911, the GT2 did the Ring in 7:33 according to Sport Auto with 530hp and 227kg less weight than a GTR. This is why most are skeptical. But again, this was all covered before.

Must I remind you that the CGT weights less than the GT2 by about 100lbs has about 85 more hp and did the Ring according to SportAuto in the same time as GT2. Please explain that.

Funny how Ring times become less important when the car you own does not have a good time.

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Jun 18, 2008 9:25:29 AM

Gauss: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Luxembourg , Luxembourg; Posts: 5822, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 3, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
thuggy said:
Quote:
Jean said:
All discussions aside whether Nissan is lying or not. Why hasn't Porsche developed a 911 Turbo with PDK, 480hp at the wheels, high-tech 20 inch tires, highly tuned suspensions and brakes, with smart torque distribution at each wheels that is faster than the Carrera GT, NOW? Brand hierarchy perhaps?

Isn't this the ultimate 911 Turbo and 959 successor that everyone wants?

The ultimate 911, the GT2 did the Ring in 7:33 according to Sport Auto with 530hp and 227kg less weight than a GTR. This is why most are skeptical. But again, this was all covered before.

Must I remind you that the CGT weights less than the GT2 by about 100lbs has about 85 more hp and did the Ring according to SportAuto in the same time as GT2. Please explain that.

Funny how Ring times become less important when the car you own does not have a good time.

The CGT is harder to drive at the limit. The GT2&GTR aren't.

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Jun 18, 2008 10:36:43 AM

thuggy: Veteran; Loc: PA & CA , United States; Posts: 834, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 22, 2006; Reply to: Gauss

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Quote:
Gauss said:
Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
thuggy said:
Quote:
Jean said:
All discussions aside whether Nissan is lying or not. Why hasn't Porsche developed a 911 Turbo with PDK, 480hp at the wheels, high-tech 20 inch tires, highly tuned suspensions and brakes, with smart torque distribution at each wheels that is faster than the Carrera GT, NOW? Brand hierarchy perhaps?

Isn't this the ultimate 911 Turbo and 959 successor that everyone wants?

The ultimate 911, the GT2 did the Ring in 7:33 according to Sport Auto with 530hp and 227kg less weight than a GTR. This is why most are skeptical. But again, this was all covered before.

Must I remind you that the CGT weights less than the GT2 by about 100lbs has about 85 more hp and did the Ring according to SportAuto in the same time as GT2. Please explain that.

Funny how Ring times become less important when the car you own does not have a good time.

The CGT is harder to drive at the limit. The GT2&GTR aren't.

And again nick you were told this way before... about the CGT versus the GT2. This comes directly from Walter himself, confirmed by HvS as both their runs in both cars are close. No such confirm on the GTR.

But again the was all covered before...

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Jun 18, 2008 10:55:31 AM

Porsche-Jeck: Rennteam Master; Loc: Rheinland , Germany; Posts: 4856, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2005; Reply to: thuggy

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Quote:
thuggy said:
But again the was all covered before...

I wonder what's the point of this thread is

I can't spot any new facts or opinions - all this had been discussed before ad nauseam

Reminds me of this movie

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Jun 18, 2008 12:11:42 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Quote:
Porsche-Jeck said:

I wonder what's the point of this thread is I can't spot any new facts or opinions - all this had been discussed before ad nauseam

+1... put it to bed already.

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Jun 18, 2008 1:23:10 PM

Jean: Veteran; Loc: Seoul , South Korea; Posts: 1033, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 14, 2002; Reply to: JoeRockhead

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Quote:
JoeRockhead said:
Quote:
Porsche-Jeck said:

I wonder what's the point of this thread is I can't spot any new facts or opinions - all this had been discussed before ad nauseam

+1... put it to bed already.

The new informaiton is that Nissan is CLEARLY stating that 7:29 was achieved on a 'NORMAL EXPORT SPEC' GT-R, not on a N-ring specific tune, or with moster engine that some people was accusing Nissan of cheating.

Of course we will have to wait for the independent verification, but HvS is known to be clumsy with non-german cars.

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Jun 18, 2008 1:31:04 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: Jean

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Quote:
Jean said:
Quote:
JoeRockhead said:
Quote:
Porsche-Jeck said:

I wonder what's the point of this thread is I can't spot any new facts or opinions - all this had been discussed before ad nauseam

+1... put it to bed already.

The new informaiton is that Nissan is CLEARLY stating that 7:29 was achieved on a 'NORMAL export spec' GT-R, not on a N-ring specific tune, or with moster engine that some people was accusing Nissan of cheating.

Of course we will have to wait for the independent verification, but HvS is known to be clumsy with non-german cars.

I would have been completely shocked if Nissan officially said they achieved 7:29 with a tuned engine and a tweaked suspension. The fact that they have been camped at the 'ring doing R&D for 5 years pretty much makes the GT-R an N'ring specific tune.

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Jun 18, 2008 1:33:58 PM

Jean: Veteran; Loc: Seoul , South Korea; Posts: 1033, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 14, 2002; Reply to: JoeRockhead

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Quote:
JoeRockhead said:
Quote:
Jean said:
Quote:
JoeRockhead said:
Quote:
Porsche-Jeck said:

I wonder what's the point of this thread is I can't spot any new facts or opinions - all this had been discussed before ad nauseam

+1... put it to bed already.

The new informaiton is that Nissan is CLEARLY stating that 7:29 was achieved on a 'NORMAL export spec' GT-R, not on a N-ring specific tune, or with moster engine that some people was accusing Nissan of cheating.

Of course we will have to wait for the independent verification, but HvS is known to be clumsy with non-german cars.

I would have been completely shocked if Nissan officially said they achieved 7:29 with a tuned engine and a tweaked suspension. The fact that they have been camped at the 'ring doing R&D for 5 years pretty much makes the GT-R an N'ring specific tune.

All Porsches are N-Ring specific then?

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Jun 18, 2008 1:46:42 PM

shin: Senior; Loc: no , Singapore; Posts: 671, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 19, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
thuggy said:
Quote:
Jean said:
All discussions aside whether Nissan is lying or not. Why hasn't Porsche developed a 911 Turbo with PDK, 480hp at the wheels, high-tech 20 inch tires, highly tuned suspensions and brakes, with smart torque distribution at each wheels that is faster than the Carrera GT, NOW? Brand hierarchy perhaps?

Isn't this the ultimate 911 Turbo and 959 successor that everyone wants?

The ultimate 911, the GT2 did the Ring in 7:33 according to Sport Auto with 530hp and 227kg less weight than a GTR. This is why most are skeptical. But again, this was all covered before.

Must I remind you that the CGT weights less than the GT2 by about 100lbs has about 85 more hp and did the Ring according to SportAuto in the same time as GT2. Please explain that.

Funny how Ring times become less important when the car you own does not have a good time.

LOL, How TRUE. Hypocrites.

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Jun 18, 2008 4:01:29 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: Jean

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Quote:
Jean said:

All Porsches are N-Ring specific then?

If Porsche set up an R&D facility at Suzuka and worked for 5 years on creating a car that was faster than a Nissan around that track, would everyone be so fascinated about it? Or would they say 'well they spent millions and 5 years trying to do it'. Porsche to my knowledge has never said that the sole goal of the TT was to be fast around the Nurburgring. Nissan designed the GT-R to be faster than the TT and they have accomplished the goal, but at too much of a sacrifice IMHO. It's far from being the all around car that the TT is, and I would venture that the GT-R won't hold the title for long.

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Jun 18, 2008 5:23:35 PM

xandi911: Senior; Loc: brasil; Posts: 688, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 14, 2006; Reply to: JoeRockhead

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

well again, and again...

A EVO with few mods can beat a 911 in the track... and??

this never mind me at all. it will be ever an EVO.

tell a guy that loves ferrari that his car is slower than a porsche and expensive.. he will not give a sh!t!

because why? he loves ferrari.

im very happy with porsche and its philosophy. And i know they are working to be better and better.

And in the real world it will be a nissan, and ill still OWN a PORSCHE, and thats the difference.

for who is worried about track times, buy an ARIEL ATOM.

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Jun 18, 2008 6:17:06 PM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Quote:
nberry said:
Must I remind you that the CGT weights less than the GT2 by about 100lbs has about 85 more hp and did the Ring according to SportAuto in the same time as GT2. Please explain that.

Customer CGTs weigh around 20kg(44lbs) less than the GT2, have less area under their torque curves, have downforce drag inducing (ie slow it down at high speed) body and are much harder to drive at the limit

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Jun 18, 2008 8:32:06 PM

Atzporsche: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Vancouver , Canada; Posts: 9118, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 7, 2005; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

All Nissans suck

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Jun 19, 2008 10:15:01 AM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8235, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Quote:
nberry said:
Must I remind you that the CGT weights less than the GT2 by about 100lbs has about 85 more hp and did the Ring according to SportAuto in the same time as GT2. Please explain that.

How oblivious are you? Take a look at the bottom of your posts. The one about tires...

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Jun 19, 2008 10:18:34 AM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8235, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Quote:
Porsche-Jeck said:
I wonder what's the point of this thread is I can't spot any new facts or opinions - all this had been discussed before ad nauseam [...]

Wholeheartedly agree. Would love to welcome you guys at the N'ring and take your times. Choose a car of your taste...

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Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

Re: GT-R 7:29 Nordschleife is True

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