Crown

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Carlos from Spain said:

Quote:
nberry said:
Seriously, your comments only confirm how clueless manual drivers are regarding the use of paddles. It is an art in performance driving.

sure sure and the playstation is just like the real thing!

"flipping" "a" "paddle" up or down vs throttle-off->cluth->helltoe-matchrev->engage gear->decluth->squezze throttle... nick, why do you think paddle shift allows for faster lap times especially in the more novice drivers? because its so easy it takes less concentration away from the driver and allows the driver to focus more cognitive resources to the other aspects of driving like steering and braking.

I love to see al the excuses you make up in your mind in order for things to fit how you would like things to be, HvS can't drive because I know so, paddles are so dificult its above a guy who can lap the CGT in 7:32 and who is tired of driving paddle shifts, the ring is worthless please don't look at lap times, bang-for-the-buck is great except with Ferrari then its the other way around, etc. what next? don't dissapoint me now

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nberry said:

Carlos let me help you out here. Obviously, new car technology eludes you because you have been driving Porsche's for a long time.

Paddles help the amateur because most are not very good with manual, even though they believe otherwise. As you stated, with paddles they can devote their attention to track conditions and do better times. However, they never get near maximum performance of the car.

The problem is no the same for professional drivers. They are good at manual shifting but nevertheless a tad slower than a F1 type drive train. Recently, car manufacturers who have a history of F1 trannies have begun to coordinate the technology with not only the suspension, but throttle and braking. Their cars are designed for maximum performance through use of a F1 drive train and not manual.

Thus, it must driven with a sensitivity to the car as much as to the road. It take practice and regular use to get in tune with the car to maximize its performance. It is a learning experience using the paddles to keep the RPM's at optimal range while coordinating with the suspension/braking in keeping the car in balance.

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nberry said:
Carlos let me help you out here. Obviously, new car technology eludes you because you have been driving Porsche's for a long time.

Paddles help the amateur because most are not very good with manual, even though they believe otherwise. As you stated, with paddles they can devote their attention to track conditions and do better times. However, they never get near maximum performance of the car.

The problem is no the same for professional drivers. They are good at manual shifting but nevertheless a tad slower than a F1 type drive train. Recently, car manufacturers who have a history of F1 trannies have begun to coordinate the technology with not only the suspension, but throttle and braking. Their cars are designed for maximum performance through use of a F1 drive train and not manual.

Thus, it must driven with a sensitivity to the car as much as to the road. It take practice and regular use to get in tune with the car to maximize its performance. It is a learning experience using the paddles to keep the RPM's at optimal range while coordinating with the suspension/braking in keeping the car in balance. Only then can a professional driver maximize its performance. In a word, it is not done just by making a few runs around the Ring.

Capice?

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SadoTorque said:
There was probably a guy playing with the steering wheel behind the camera. I have finally settled it.

possible video of the real driver.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAXTbDy197o

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Jeff (in SF) said:

Quote:
nberry said:

Carlos let me help you out here. Obviously, new car technology eludes you because you have been driving Porsche's for a long time.

Paddles help the amateur because most are not very good with manual, even though they believe otherwise. As you stated, with paddles they can devote their attention to track conditions and do better times. However, they never get near maximum performance of the car.

The problem is no the same for professional drivers. They are good at manual shifting but nevertheless a tad slower than a F1 type drive train. Recently, car manufacturers who have a history of F1 trannies have begun to coordinate the technology with not only the suspension, but throttle and braking. Their cars are designed for maximum performance through use of a F1 drive train and not manual.

Thus, it must driven with a sensitivity to the car as much as to the road. It take practice and regular use to get in tune with the car to maximize its performance. It is a learning experience using the paddles to keep the RPM's at optimal range while coordinating with the suspension/braking in keeping the car in balance.

uhhh, what? Nick, doesn't your Ferrari, like all other auto-manuals (flappy paddles) that I'm familiar with, PREVENT you from downshifting in situations where the revs would exceed the engine's maximum? If so, then clearly the driver's skill at "maintaining RPM's" doesn't mean anything because the engine computer is going to doublecheck the driver's transmission choice and if it's within an allowed RPM range, the gear change will happen; but if it would over-rev the engine, then you have to BRAKE and/or let off the gas to let the engine speed drop to a point where a downshift would not overrev the engine. <--Again, all of this is managed by the car, not the driver.

I'm sure I'm missing your relevent point so please, I'm on a 12 month sabbatical and have plenty of time to be your pupil. Please educate me further.

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nberry said:

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Jeff (in SF) said:

Quote:
nberry said:

Carlos let me help you out here. Obviously, new car technology eludes you because you have been driving Porsche's for a long time.

Paddles help the amateur because most are not very good with manual, even though they believe otherwise. As you stated, with paddles they can devote their attention to track conditions and do better times. However, they never get near maximum performance of the car.

The problem is no the same for professional drivers. They are good at manual shifting but nevertheless a tad slower than a F1 type drive train. Recently, car manufacturers who have a history of F1 trannies have begun to coordinate the technology with not only the suspension, but throttle and braking. Their cars are designed for maximum performance through use of a F1 drive train and not manual.

Thus, it must driven with a sensitivity to the car as much as to the road. It take practice and regular use to get in tune with the car to maximize its performance. It is a learning experience using the paddles to keep the RPM's at optimal range while coordinating with the suspension/braking in keeping the car in balance.

uhhh, what? Nick, doesn't your Ferrari, like all other auto-manuals (flappy paddles) that I'm familiar with, PREVENT you from downshifting in situations where the revs would exceed the engine's maximum? If so, then clearly the driver's skill at "maintaining RPM's" doesn't mean anything because the engine computer is going to doublecheck the driver's transmission choice and if it's within an allowed RPM range, the gear change will happen; but if it would over-rev the engine, then you have to BRAKE and/or let off the gas to let the engine speed drop to a point where a downshift would not overrev the engine. <--Again, all of this is managed by the car, not the driver.

I'm sure I'm missing your relevent point so please, I'm on a 12 month sabbatical and have plenty of time to be your pupil. Please educate me further.

Jeff, downshifting into the wrong RPM is adjusted by the computer but is also an indication that you were not at optimal rpm's. The same applies to upshifting. While entering and existing corners it is absolutely critical to be at the appropriate rpm's. The scenario you described is a clear indication you are not. Like many you are making the erroneous assumption that maximum RPM (redline) is always the best.

FWIW, now that Porsche has come out with its version of the F1 drive train, many of you will suddenly have an epiphany and recognize that paddle shifting can be an art form.

Quote:
Jeff (in SF) said:

Quote:
nberry said:

Carlos let me help you out here. Obviously, new car technology eludes you because you have been driving Porsche's for a long time.

Paddles help the amateur because most are not very good with manual, even though they believe otherwise. As you stated, with paddles they can devote their attention to track conditions and do better times. However, they never get near maximum performance of the car.

The problem is no the same for professional drivers. They are good at manual shifting but nevertheless a tad slower than a F1 type drive train. Recently, car manufacturers who have a history of F1 trannies have begun to coordinate the technology with not only the suspension, but throttle and braking. Their cars are designed for maximum performance through use of a F1 drive train and not manual.

Thus, it must driven with a sensitivity to the car as much as to the road. It take practice and regular use to get in tune with the car to maximize its performance. It is a learning experience using the paddles to keep the RPM's at optimal range while coordinating with the suspension/braking in keeping the car in balance.

uhhh, what? Nick, doesn't your Ferrari, like all other auto-manuals (flappy paddles) that I'm familiar with, PREVENT you from downshifting in situations where the revs would exceed the engine's maximum? If so, then clearly the driver's skill at "maintaining RPM's" doesn't mean anything because the engine computer is going to doublecheck the driver's transmission choice and if it's within an allowed RPM range, the gear change will happen; but if it would over-rev the engine, then you have to BRAKE and/or let off the gas to let the engine speed drop to a point where a downshift would not overrev the engine. <--Again, all of this is managed by the car, not the driver.

I'm sure I'm missing your relevent point so please, I'm on a 12 month sabbatical and have plenty of time to be your pupil. Please educate me further.

Quote:
nberry said:

Thus, it must driven with a sensitivity to the car as much as to the road. It take practice and regular use to get in tune with the car to maximize its performance. It is a learning experience using the paddles to keep the RPM's at optimal range while coordinating with the suspension/braking in keeping the car in balance. Only then can a professional driver maximize its performance. In a word, it is not done just by making a few runs around the Ring.

Capice?

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MKSGR said:

Quote:
nberry said:

Thus, it must driven with a sensitivity to the car as much as to the road. It take practice and regular use to get in tune with the car to maximize its performance. It is a learning experience using the paddles to keep the RPM's at optimal range while coordinating with the suspension/braking in keeping the car in balance. Only then can a professional driver maximize its performance. In a word, it is not done just by making a few runs around the Ring.

Capice?

Frankly, I don't understand your point. I cannot see any difficulties in handling the paddle system in modern sports cars

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KresoF1 said:

Quote:
MKSGR said:

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nberry said:

Thus, it must driven with a sensitivity to the car as much as to the road. It take practice and regular use to get in tune with the car to maximize its performance. It is a learning experience using the paddles to keep the RPM's at optimal range while coordinating with the suspension/braking in keeping the car in balance. Only then can a professional driver maximize its performance. In a word, it is not done just by making a few runs around the Ring.

Capice?

Frankly, I don't understand your point. I cannot see any difficulties in handling the paddle system in modern sports cars

Problem is that Nick do not understand that sequential manuals a la F1 work completely different then DCT systems.

Also sequential manuals are becoming obsolete... Even Ferrari is admiting that with new California. You can bet with me that 599M will feature DCT and DFI V12...

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nberry said:

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KresoF1 said:

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MKSGR said:

Quote:
nberry said:

Thus, it must driven with a sensitivity to the car as much as to the road. It take practice and regular use to get in tune with the car to maximize its performance. It is a learning experience using the paddles to keep the RPM's at optimal range while coordinating with the suspension/braking in keeping the car in balance. Only then can a professional driver maximize its performance. In a word, it is not done just by making a few runs around the Ring.

Capice?

Frankly, I don't understand your point. I cannot see any difficulties in handling the paddle system in modern sports cars

Problem is that Nick do not understand that sequential manuals a la F1 work completely different then DCT systems.

Also sequential manuals are becoming obsolete... Even Ferrari is admiting that with new California. You can bet with me that 599M will feature DCT and DFI V12...

Your right I am only speaking from my experience with sequential.

MSRK, I do not dispute that paddles make it easier to drive madern sport cars. My point is in high performance driving the use of paddles in extracting optimum performance from the car is more than a video game as most here have stated. As I wrote earlier, when PDK is in 90% of of all Porsche's ordered (make no mistake that will be the case) all these attacked against the paddles will fade.

Quote:
thuggy said:

Quote:
nberry said:
Jeff, downshifting into the wrong RPM is adjusted by the computer but is also an indication that you were not at optimal rpm's. The same applies to upshifting. While entering and existing corners it is absolutely critical to be at the appropriate rpm's. The scenario you described is a clear indication you are not. Like many you are making the erroneous assumption that maximum RPM (redline) is always the best.

FWIW, now that Porsche has come out with its version of the F1 drive train, many of you will suddenly have an epiphany and recognize that paddle shifting can be an art form.

Ever watch the movie Swingers? When the Jon Favreau character just kept calling back over and over again leaving more and more messages. Each more pitiful than the last. Remember how painful it was and you wished he would just stop.

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schao said:
The "controversy" the GT-R has generated is simply because it threatens the established order, in its home market, on its home venue. I wonder how much 'pressure" the European press will feel (direct or indirect) from Porsche, BMW, MB, Audi, etc. that might hinder any objective reviews of the GT-R. I'm not likely to buy a GT-R simply because of its weight/size. But I like how competition forces everyone to improve. The GT-R deserves respect for being at the cutting edge of automotive technology today, and fostering more advancements in the future.

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AUM said:
Great driving from Suzuki and all kudos to the GTR. 'The Legend is Real' starts to ring true. The GTR does have supercar performance, and even the sound isn't too bad.

Anyone who drives a lot on the Nordschleife (as I do) knows how difficult it is to carry that kind of speed through corners. A perfect lap.

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BiTurbo said:
Is this some kind of a joke ? That's like visiting the workshop every 2 ~ 4 times a month

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nberry said:

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KresoF1 said:

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MKSGR said:

Quote:
nberry said:

Thus, it must driven with a sensitivity to the car as much as to the road. It take practice and regular use to get in tune with the car to maximize its performance. It is a learning experience using the paddles to keep the RPM's at optimal range while coordinating with the suspension/braking in keeping the car in balance. Only then can a professional driver maximize its performance. In a word, it is not done just by making a few runs around the Ring.

Capice?

Frankly, I don't understand your point. I cannot see any difficulties in handling the paddle system in modern sports cars

Problem is that Nick do not understand that sequential manuals a la F1 work completely different then DCT systems.

Also sequential manuals are becoming obsolete... Even Ferrari is admiting that with new California. You can bet with me that 599M will feature DCT and DFI V12...

Your right I am only speaking from my experience with sequential.

MSRK, I do not dispute that paddles make it easier to drive madern sport cars. My point is in high performance driving the use of paddles in extracting optimum performance from the car is more than a video game as most here have stated. As I wrote earlier, when PDK is in 90% of of all Porsche's ordered (make no mistake that will be the case) all these attacked against the paddles will fade.

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shin said:

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nberry said:
Your right I am only speaking from my experience with sequential.

MSRK, I do not dispute that paddles make it easier to drive madern sport cars. My point is in high performance driving the use of paddles in extracting optimum performance from the car is more than a video game as most here have stated. As I wrote earlier, when PDK is in 90% of of all Porsche's ordered (make no mistake that will be the case) all these attacked against the paddles will fade.

I concur.

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AUM said:
Great driving from Suzuki and all kudos to the GTR. 'The Legend is Real' starts to ring true. The GTR does have supercar performance, and even the sound isn't too bad.

Anyone who drives a lot on the Nordschleife (as I do) knows how difficult it is to carry that kind of speed through corners. A perfect lap.

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nberry said:
However, I must point out that the exhaust had a totally different sound than the other videos showing the GT-R in performance mode. It makes me wonder.

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MKSGR said:

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Dock (Atlanta) said:

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Carlos from Spain said:
AFAIK HvS does flying laps and also start and stop in those same two points.

And Porsche (WR)?

The Porsche figures are the outcome of the same (i.e. SportAuto) test procedure. Thus, Porsche (WR) and SportAuto lap times are comparable.

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Dock (Atlanta) said:

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MKSGR said:

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Dock (Atlanta) said:

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Carlos from Spain said:
AFAIK HvS does flying laps and also start and stop in those same two points.

And Porsche (WR)?

The Porsche figures are the outcome of the same (i.e. SportAuto) test procedure. Thus, Porsche (WR) and SportAuto lap times are comparable.

Someone VERY knowledgeable on this forum told me otherwise...that Porsche timed from a standing start.