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    Dec 13, 2007 9:39:32 PM

    John H Offline
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    John H
    Loc: Cheshire, UK , United Kingdom
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    Battery died this morning...

    Garaged the 997S last night as normal. Tried to start it this morning and got a series of flashing lights and clicking noises together with a series of warning messages.

    Rang Porsche assistance. They sent a guy with jump leads who managed to start it, but it wouldn't hold the charge. So low-loader to OPC it was... Courtesy car arrived this afternoon - Merc S Class - very nice if you want to be chauffeured .

    Why is it there's no warning that a battery is going to fail? It was turning over fine yesterday and dead today.

    One thing I have noticed over the past few weeks is that I get an occassional beep from the horn for no apparent reason - usually when I've opened the door or after locking it? Enough to think a bit strange but not overly concerning - until now maybe??

    Do you think the car was trying to warn me in some way? You know - looking after it's mate...

    The OPC have confirmed the battery is dead! That must have been difficult for them. Now they are keeping it to investigate the voltage loss.

    You guys got any ideas...

    Dec 13, 2007 9:43:26 PM

    Ed J
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    Ed J
    Loc: London
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    Reply to: John H

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    This happened to mine and the recovery chap said it was pretty common for the battery to fail after a couple of years. When I said that they lasted a lot longer in the old days, he said that in the old days they didn't have to worry about trackers, alarms, sat navs etc. I suppose he's right, but you'd think they would make better batteries to cope with it all.

    What made mine particularly nerve wracking was that I was parked in a dodgy underground car park and the recovery truck couldn't get to the car to tow it out.

    Dec 13, 2007 10:05:47 PM

    fritz
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    Reply to: John H

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    Quote:
    John H said:
    One thing I have noticed over the past few weeks is that I get an occassional beep from the horn for no apparent reason - usually when I've opened the door or after locking it?



    In my experience, that beep on remotely locking the door usually means that you've left the trunk-lid or center-console bin lid open, or one of the car doors isn't correctly closed.

    Dec 13, 2007 10:11:43 PM

    MMD
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    Reply to: Ed J

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    I'd say the PCM is the problem from my experience. My battery was ruined and replaced because of it. PCM was defective and was eventually replaced.

    Normal current draw is shown below. When you get car back "fixed" have them show you this with a meter before you drive away.

    Make sure you are convinced of your draw rate. My suspicion was my car was never fixed, I just kept it on a battery maintainer "all" the time to be safe.

    Dec 13, 2007 11:23:40 PM

    Greentree
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    Greentree
    Loc: Texas, USA , United States
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    I suspect the battery incurred some kind of damage as you were driving. An internal part (e.g., one of the buss bars) probably cracked. It could have been a manufacturing defect or just metal fatigue due to vibration. Of course, there's no way to verify this without breaking open the battery. Yet its failure was so sudden that it must have involved some kind of internal mechanical damage rather than just sulfating up.

    Dec 14, 2007 12:11:12 AM

    ewi
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    ewi
    Loc: Germany
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    In my experience, that beep on remotely locking the door usually means that you've left the trunk-lid or center-console bin lid open, or one of the car doors isn't correctly closed.



    Center console lid doesn't give a honk. There is the socket for e.g. the battery maintainer in there and you need to keep the lid open to use it. But open glove box might give a honk, too.

    Quote:
    John H said:
    One thing I have noticed over the past few weeks is that I get an occassional beep from the horn for no apparent reason - usually when I've opened the door or after locking it?



    In general, if the car gives a honk it indicates that locking failed partially or completely. That is why it honks again when you are trying to open it. It was never locked and tries to lock again. If it wasn't locked the car's control units were not powered down and drained the battery.
    If you frequently get a honk although the doors and lids are closed there might be a problem with one of the door locks or the locking mechanism of the lids.

    Dec 14, 2007 12:19:20 AM

    Leawood911
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    Leawood911
    Loc: Kansas, USA , United States
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    Reply to: Ed J

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    Quote:
    Ed J said:
    This happened to mine and the recovery chap said it was pretty common for the battery to fail after a couple of years. When I said that they lasted a lot longer in the old days, he said that in the old days they didn't have to worry about trackers, alarms, sat navs etc. I suppose he's right, but you'd think they would make better batteries to cope with it all.

    What made mine particularly nerve wracking was that I was parked in a dodgy underground car park and the recovery truck couldn't get to the car to tow it out.



    Towing a car to install a battery. I love that. A guy on a scooter could deliver and install a battery in 5 minutes. I can see just abonding the car in the garage because it coulde not be towed out to get the battery.

    On a related note - I am one of the rare owners to get a warranty battery replacement after 3.5 years and 40K miles of constant use. If the car is not driven frequently you must attach a battery maintainer because of all the electronics constantly draining the battery - which kills batteries quickly. In my case I was able to prove that I drove the minimum number of miles required (by far) and the battery had just been exhausted.
    Radar detectors, cell phone chargers etc. are also a problem since most of the outlets are constantly hot rather than switched with the ignition - They should change that.
    A beep from the horn when you lock the car usually means that one of the doors is not closed, including the hoods, glovebox, center console etc. - if all those are closed and it persists then disconnect the negative battery terminal cable for 10 seconds and reconnect. If you still hear a beep when you lock the car you may have a failing battery (or any number of electronic failures).

    Dec 14, 2007 1:40:36 AM

    Heist
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    Heist
    Loc: Washington, DC , United States
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    Reply to: Leawood911

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    I heard Porsche uses Gel batteries and these, while safer, don't have the lifespan of the lead/acid plate kind.

    Dec 14, 2007 4:08:40 AM

    MMD
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    MMD
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    Reply to: Heist

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    Quote:
    Heist said:
    I heard Porsche uses Gel batteries and these, while safer, don't have the lifespan of the lead/acid plate kind.



    I had three new Porsches since 2003 and they all were conventional "wet" lead/acid batteries.

    Dec 14, 2007 5:11:39 PM

    John H Offline
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    John H
    Loc: Cheshire, UK , United Kingdom
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    Got the car back today.

    To answer a few comments:-

    The invoice showed - Battery (80AH)- Pounds121.85 and Battery Acid - Pounds12.86. (so no Gel then!) Apparently 80AH is the largest capacity battery available.

    They ran tests to discover the reason for the horn beeping without success. As soon as I got it home and opened the door it beeped at me again...

    After some thought, I'm pretty sure this beeping started when I had a faulty key replaced but I'm not 100% sure.

    So I'm going to use my spare for a while just to see....

    The massive up-side is that the car is so much livelier - just wish I'd replaced the ailing battery earlier. It now turns over so much quicker, I should have noticed the problem arising. I'll replace it promptly next time it slows down.

    Pounds130 is small change for peace of mind.

    Dec 14, 2007 5:34:19 PM

    MMD
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    Reply to: John H

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    I'd get to the auto supply store and buy a hydrometer and check the charge level of battery over the next few days/weeks.

    What did they claimn to have fixed? Did you get any proof that the current draw was within spec?

    BTW: be extremely careful with drawing out the acid: can perm. cripple your eyes.

    Dec 14, 2007 10:37:27 PM

    John H Offline
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    John H
    Loc: Cheshire, UK , United Kingdom
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    The explanation given was that my battery had dropped a cell and wouldn't hold a charge - therefore it was useless!

    My alternator was fine and the new battery was tested for loss of voltage. That was the 'fix'.

    With respect, I won't be risking my eyesight but many thanks for your input.

    Dec 14, 2007 11:17:03 PM

    MMD
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    MMD
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    Reply to: John H

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    Quote:
    John H said:
    The explanation given was that my battery had dropped a cell and wouldn't hold a charge - therefore it was useless!

    My alternator was fine and the new battery was tested for loss of voltage. That was the 'fix'.

    With respect, I won't be risking my eyesight but many thanks for your input.



    I _believe_ when cells short out ("drops a cell"(?)) it's because the battery was deeply discharged and insoluble sulfation occurs bridging the gap between plates in one or more cells.

    IOW, the battery was damaged by some problem in the car that caused deep discharge.

    FWIW, you may still have a problem that's causing battery to be discharged. Just something to keep in mind; I'm no expert by anymeans.

    Good luck John.

    Dec 15, 2007 10:13:38 AM

    John H Offline
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    John H
    Loc: Cheshire, UK , United Kingdom
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    John H said:
    The explanation given was that my battery had dropped a cell and wouldn't hold a charge - therefore it was useless!

    My alternator was fine and the new battery was tested for loss of voltage. That was the 'fix'.

    With respect, I won't be risking my eyesight but many thanks for your input.



    I _believe_ when cells short out ("drops a cell"(?)) it's because the battery was deeply discharged and insoluble sulfation occurs bridging the gap between plates in one or more cells.

    IOW, the battery was damaged by some problem in the car that caused deep discharge.

    FWIW, you may still have a problem that's causing battery to be discharged. Just something to keep in mind; I'm no expert by anymeans.

    Good luck John.





    Thank you MMD .

    I'll certainly be keeping a close watch on anything that could cause an apparent drop in battery performance. Particularly the horn beeping symptom which the OPC couldn't fathom. So far the change of key seems to have stopped it... but it's early days.

    I did quiz them about a possible 'problem' which could have killed the battery on the premise that, if there was one, I could have claimed the whole cost on warranty.

    They reckon not - but we'll see.... I'm very grateful for your time and help.

    Dec 15, 2007 4:28:22 PM

    MMD
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    Reply to: John H

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    Quote:
    John H said:


    They reckon not - but we'll see.... I'm very grateful for your time and help.



    It's my pleasure to be helpful. Got my fingers crossed yours is _fixed_. If not, hopefully you might avoid extra time spent getting yours sorted.

    When I had problems (mentioned above) it took me three (maybe four!?) long trips to dealer as they slowly figured out what was wrong: not kidding. Was summer so drive was kinda fun BUT still a PITA.

    Dec 16, 2007 2:11:54 PM

    fritz
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    Reply to: ewi

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    Quote:
    ewi said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    In my experience, that beep on remotely locking the door usually means that you've left the trunk-lid or center-console bin lid open, or one of the car doors isn't correctly closed.



    Center console lid doesn't give a honk. There is the socket for e.g. the battery maintainer in there and you need to keep the lid open to use it. But open glove box might give a honk, too.




    You're right.
    I was thinking back to my 996, whose center console lid had a lock and was covered by the alarm. That car used to talk to me often if I didn't shut the lid fully after using the garage door remote control. Was one of the reasons I got the Home Link on my 997.

    Dec 16, 2007 10:46:43 PM

    John H Offline
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    John H
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    Update.... car hasn't honked since using the spare key.

    MMD - I'm hoping against hope that I don't have a PCM problem as it's not covered by my extended warranty.

    Dec 16, 2007 11:09:10 PM

    MMD
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    MMD
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    Reply to: John H

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    Quote:
    John H said:
    Update.... car hasn't honked since using the spare key.

    MMD - I'm hoping against hope that I don't have a PCM problem as it's not covered by my extended warranty.



    Awwwwwwww..., sh*************t. Not sure if I should tell you but mine would have cost us$2500.00. Sorry to hear and tell you.

    Dec 19, 2007 12:28:32 AM

    ewi
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    ewi
    Loc: Germany
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    Reply to: John H

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    Quote:
    John H said:
    After some thought, I'm pretty sure this beeping started when I had a faulty key replaced but I'm not 100% sure.
    ...
    Update.... car hasn't honked since using the spare key.




    Hmm, maybe the new key was not correctly learned by the immobilizer system?
    Or another thought, did you program any comfort options like auto lock, auto unlock or seat memory with the old key? Maybe these functions were not cleared before learning the new key. Try reprogramming these options with the new key.

    BTW, do you get two honks when using the replacement key or just one?
    According to the manual, if you get two honks there is a failure in the immobilizer system.

    Dec 22, 2007 11:42:17 AM

    John H Offline
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    John H
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    Reply to: ewi

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    EWI - Thanks for the advice. I haven't had any honks since using the spare key. I'm pretty sure the other key must be faulty...will check with OPC after the holidays.

    One thing I have noticed, since the battery/key change, is that the interior light doesn't stay on when locking/unlocking. It used to stay on for minutes or until the car was locked. Now it goes out within a second of coming on.

    Dec 22, 2007 6:06:32 PM

    MMD
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    MMD
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    Reply to: John H

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    Quote:
    John H said:

    One thing I have noticed, since the battery/key change, is that the interior light doesn't stay on when locking/unlocking. It used to stay on for minutes or until the car was locked. Now it goes out within a second of coming on.



    Just a guess on my part but if you have Sport Chrono you might be able to change that to match your preference. (SC allows several pref changes).



    Dec 22, 2007 6:14:07 PM

    John H Offline
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    John H
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    John H said:

    One thing I have noticed, since the battery/key change, is that the interior light doesn't stay on when locking/unlocking. It used to stay on for minutes or until the car was locked. Now it goes out within a second of coming on.



    Just a guess on my part but if you have Sport Chrono you might be able to change that to match your preference. (SC allows several pref changes).





    I don't have Sports Chrono, but thanks anyway...

    Dec 22, 2007 7:48:34 PM

    MMD
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    MMD
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    Reply to: John H

    Re: Battery died this morning...

    Quote:
    John H said:


    I don't have Sports Chrono, but thanks anyway...



    Yeah..., don't worry about not having it. I think the dahs looks better w/o it.

    Looks like you have to go to dealer and get them to change things back if you miss them.

    Hey! Sounds the subject of a new thread...!

     
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