Jun 28, 2004 4:12:41 AM
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Ron (Houston)
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Board: Porsche - 911 - 997
Language: English
Region: Worldwide
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Jun 28, 2004 6:31:44 AM
- brunner
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Ron (Houston)
Re: 997 speaks for itself
Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
IMO, from any angle that you look at it, the new 997 looks more like a Porsche than the 996 did. What do you guys say?
Actually, I say it looks more like a 911 than the 996
But i agree, i think it's much more beautiful than the 996, in a 911 way..
Re: 997 speaks for itself
I agree completely! 
I had reservations about the 996. In profile, I thought the 996 was an improvement, a more balanced design than the original 911 profile that had continued basically unchanged through the 993. But, from the front, the 993 was the better design I thought. The odd shaped headlight was just too much of a departure from tradition and added nothing positive.
On the Boxster, the headlights repeat the theme from the taillights, so you can kind of see the concept. Still, even there, it's hard to appreciate the effect when those design elements are on opposite ends of the car.
I had reservations about the 996. In profile, I thought the 996 was an improvement, a more balanced design than the original 911 profile that had continued basically unchanged through the 993. But, from the front, the 993 was the better design I thought. The odd shaped headlight was just too much of a departure from tradition and added nothing positive. On the Boxster, the headlights repeat the theme from the taillights, so you can kind of see the concept. Still, even there, it's hard to appreciate the effect when those design elements are on opposite ends of the car.
Jun 28, 2004 12:59:17 PM
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RC
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Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: 997 speaks for itself
Ron, I saw around 10-12 997 Carrera S one next to each other, with two or three 996 among them parked in a parking lot. Shortly before that, I saw a 997 S and I had to look twice at it to recognize it as a 997 and not as a 996.
But when I saw the few 996 next to the many 997 S, the 996 looked so outdated, incredible.
I think the 997 will have a huge success once it hits the streets and especially when people see it next to the 996.
And the 997 is WIDE in the rear...incredible, reminds me of the C4S. You have to see it yourself, I saw a C4S next to a 997 S and the 997 S looked even wider in the rear, maybe due to the "thinner" rear lights and the 20 mm suspension this car had.
And another thing which suprised me: the 997 Carrera and the 997 Carrera S have the same body. But when looking at both one next to each other, they seem to look different, especially the Carrera S looks meaner and wider.
I know this can't be but the "S" definetely looks like the perfect 911, while the Carrera looks somehow odd.
I think the round shaped double exhaust is one reason, the 19'' wheels (vs. the 18'' on the Carrera) another one.
And of course the height, the Carrera I saw had the standard suspension, the "S" the 20 mm one.
Overall I think, as I stated in an older post, that the "S" is the better buy. But some people will surely go for the Carrera because of it's more attractive price tag...well, at first look.
But when I saw the few 996 next to the many 997 S, the 996 looked so outdated, incredible.
I think the 997 will have a huge success once it hits the streets and especially when people see it next to the 996.
And the 997 is WIDE in the rear...incredible, reminds me of the C4S. You have to see it yourself, I saw a C4S next to a 997 S and the 997 S looked even wider in the rear, maybe due to the "thinner" rear lights and the 20 mm suspension this car had.
And another thing which suprised me: the 997 Carrera and the 997 Carrera S have the same body. But when looking at both one next to each other, they seem to look different, especially the Carrera S looks meaner and wider.
I know this can't be but the "S" definetely looks like the perfect 911, while the Carrera looks somehow odd.
I think the round shaped double exhaust is one reason, the 19'' wheels (vs. the 18'' on the Carrera) another one.
And of course the height, the Carrera I saw had the standard suspension, the "S" the 20 mm one.
Overall I think, as I stated in an older post, that the "S" is the better buy. But some people will surely go for the Carrera because of it's more attractive price tag...well, at first look.
Jun 28, 2004 2:21:18 PM
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nberry
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Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: 997 speaks for itself
Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
IMO, from any angle that you look at it, the new 997 looks more like a Porsche than the 996 did. Mind you that I own a 996.
What do you guys say?
Which means little or no change from the classic designed. It is going back to looking like a frog. You guys can put the best face on it but undoubtly it is one of the ugliest cars on the market. Once inside the car it get worse.
Hey it still can go like hell and that is all that matters. RIGHT?
Jun 28, 2004 2:26:42 PM
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Carrageous
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Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: 997 speaks for itself
Well, I love the pictures but I'll reserve judgement until I see the car itself. It's taken me until this year to really fall in love with the 1996, as opposed to just respecting it. I think that the 997 continues that love and adds a little more Porsche "definition" with the traditional headlights and prodigious rear quarters.
Thinking seriously about an S next year some time.
Dain
Thinking seriously about an S next year some time.
Dain
Re: 997 speaks for itself
Quote:
Which means little or no change from the classic designed. It is going back to looking like a frog. You guys can put the best face on it but undoubtly it is one of the ugliest cars on the market. Once inside the car it get worse.
Well that's rather subjective, isn't it?
Among my friends the general consensus is rather "Finally it looks like a 911 again!", which is meant positive.
Personally I also prefer the new interior and I am afraid that the 996 interior will look quite dated in a few years. Since pictures never seem to do justice to Porsches I am really looking forward to seeing one in the future.
RG TL
Re: 997 speaks for itself
Quote:
You guys can put the best face on it but undoubtly it is one of the ugliest cars on the market.
No Nick, the 360 is the ugliest. It's total crap, i wonder what the senior designer smoked
And that limey color, how did they choose the colors? playing with legos while smoking the same stuff?(hey, it's easier than i thought to come up with this kind of opinions
)ok, seriously now, if it's the ugliest car on the market, how come so MANY people just LOVE the way it looks? Are we all idiots? We aren't a bunch of stupid kids watching 2f2f and jerking off to huge spoilers and silicon boobs, so you could at least show some respect for our POV
Jun 28, 2004 3:47:17 PM
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JP66
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Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: 997 speaks for itself
Quote:
brunner said:Quote:
You guys can put the best face on it but undoubtly it is one of the ugliest cars on the market.
No Nick, the 360 is the ugliest. It's total crap, i wonder what the senior designer smoked
(hey, it's easier than i thought to come up with this kind of opinions
ok, seriously now, if it's the ugliest car on the market, how come so MANY people just LOVE the way it looks? Are we all idiots? We aren't a bunch of stupid kids watching 2f2f and jerking off to huge spoilers and silicon boobs, so you could at least show some respect for our POV
Porsche enthusiast will buy regardless of style. However, the general buying public will consider style and that is why the 996 was a success. The 997 is gong back to failed styling and the result will be substantially reduced sales.
Take that to the bank. The 360 has been hailed as one of the most beautiful cars in the world and that is why there is a long wait to buy one.
Re: 997 speaks for itself
Quote:
nberry said:
The 360 has been hailed as one of the most beautiful cars in the world and that is why there is a long wait to buy one.
The only thing long lines-to-buy signify is a restricted supply. (You have even touted this as desireable.)
There were long bread lines in the former Soviet Union. Was the bread the tastiest in the world?
Hardly an arguement for superior desirability
Jun 28, 2004 6:47:59 PM
- kfractal
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Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: 997 speaks for itself
Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
IMO, [...] the new 997 looks more like a Porsche than the 996 did. Mind you that I own a 996.
What do you guys say?
The 996 and 997 are both beautiful cars. Probably for very different reasons to me than say a Ferrari, old Alfa Romeo, etc. Italians get to do the "machismo" thing. Germans get to do the "make it work well and efficiently" thing. Somehow the understated-ness gets to me... while on say a Ferrari it would be wanting.
I gawk and stare at my 996 almost every time I walk out to it! And I'm sure the very first time I see a 997 in person I'll gawk and stare at it too!
Re: 997 speaks for itself
Quote:
nberry said:
The 997 is gong back to failed styling and the result will be substantially reduced sales.
Failed styling? I guess a car that can go 35 years (63-98) with the exterior and interior styling virtually unchanged, is quite the failure. Not to mention keep the same theme (rear engine, 2+2, everyday supercar) i.e. the 996, and then go on to 40 years and, as you mentioned, be a huge success! So this was quite a failure in design. How many other cars have been out continuosly for 40 years as the same model? The 996 has been the highest selling 911 ever, but also the most produced, and was introduced at a time (1999) when people had money they didn't know what to do with. The late 90's financial dotcom whirlwind was a better stage to launch a model than the early 90's. Also compare the length of time the 996 has been produced to the last 15 years. 964-5 yrs. 993-3-4 yrs. 996-7 yrs.
Anyway I know there are much fewer 993's than there are 996's, but the fact still remains it is a very desirable car, and in most cases a 993 C2 demands more than a pre-facelift 996. I think you are going to be very surprised at the success of the 997, and I personally beleive it will be a bigger success than the 996. As RC said, even he couldn't see a huge difference as one drove by out on the street. I think it is a good blend of mostly 996, and part 993, but in the end, all Porsche
Re: 997 speaks for itself
Quote:
brunner said:
No Nick, the 360 is the ugliest. It's total crap, i wonder what the senior designer smoked
(hey, it's easier than i thought to come up with this kind of opinions
Brunner,
You just know it would have to be easy to express dumb-assed opinions, otherwise Nick couldn't manage it with such monotonous regularity.
Re: 997 speaks for itself
I expect from all of the "doubters" an excuse (or a beer, free choice... ) when the 997 hits the road. 
Guys, I put my word for it: when you see the 997 Carrera S in person, you'll be in love. True love.
And it gets better...997 GT3, 997 Turbo...just can't wait to fall in love again and again and again...
) when the 997 hits the road. Guys, I put my word for it: when you see the 997 Carrera S in person, you'll be in love. True love.
And it gets better...997 GT3, 997 Turbo...just can't wait to fall in love again and again and again...
Re: 997 speaks for itself
Quote:
fritz said:Quote:
brunner said:
No Nick, the 360 is the ugliest. It's total crap, i wonder what the senior designer smoked
(hey, it's easier than i thought to come up with this kind of opinions
Brunner,
You just know it would have to be easy to express dumb-assed opinions, otherwise Nick couldn't manage it with such monotonous regularity.
Hmnn, your slavish positive view is fact and requires intellectual integrity; right?
The 996 was well accepted by the buying public and was an instant success. It was only the die hard Porsche fans who found the 996 an abomination.
Now it is in reverse. The die hards like the 997's but I will wager the general public will look and say " why do I want to buy a new old looking car? I can easily buy a 993 at a fraction of the price."
Mike I agree supplies are limited. But Ferrari customer focus was best illustrated recently in their quarterly/annual report. Despite the fact they sell everything they produce they still lost money. They refused to increase production because they are protecting the brand and the customer. Try to get Porsche to do that.
Re: 997 speaks for itself
Nick - I though you might find it interesting that Jeremy Clarkson whom you quote in your signature is a Ferrari enthusiast who adores the F355. When the F360 came out, he was so disgusted by its styling that he compared it unfavorably to the regurgitated dinner of a dog. This is on the video he made of the 100 greatest cars where he ranked the F355 as #3 and the F360 as #99...
Re: 997 speaks for itself
Quote:
Grant said:
Nick - I though you might find it interesting that Jeremy Clarkson whom you quote in your signature is a Ferrari enthusiast who adores the F355. When the F360 came out, he was so disgusted by its styling that he compared it unfavorably to the regurgitated dinner of a dog. This is on the video he made of the 100 greatest cars where he ranked the F355 as #3 and the F360 as #99...
Grant, Whilst I agree with JC's expressed view of the 360 as little as I do with most of his other "opinions", I still apprecaiated reading that quote!
Thanks!
PS: "Expressed" view and "opinions", because I think JC deliberately expresses off-the-wall views just to wind up his viewers / readers.
I suspect Nick might be amongst those few people who would take JC seriously, if it suits him to.
Re: 997 speaks for itself
Quote:
nberry said:
But Ferrari customer focus was best illustrated recently in their quarterly/annual report. Despite the fact they sell everything they produce they still lost money. They refused to increase production because they are protecting the brand and the customer. Try to get Porsche to do that.
Nick, So your point is: Ferrari is selling its cars at planned capacity, obviously does not have to discount them, and is still making losses!
And you put that result down to altruism, rather than bad financial planning?
You cannot be serious!
Re: 997 speaks for itself
Quote:
The die hards like the 997's but I will wager the general public will look and say " why do I want to buy a new old looking car?
I won't forget to remind you those words when the 997 will be a big commercial success, nick
Funny you think it's 'old looking'. Have you EVER saw it in real life? Everyone that saw the 997 said the 996 looks oddly OLD. How's that?
And since when must i care about the general public? The general public loves britney spears. Should i do it, too? Or is Katie Melua a looser, just because people love BS more?
Heck, i must be really bored, i'm arguing with Clarkson! err..Nick, sorry.
Jun 28, 2004 8:55:09 PM
- Porsche Maniac
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- Reply to: nberry
Re: 997 speaks for itself
Quote:
They refused to increase production because they are protecting the brand and the customer. Try to get Porsche to do that.
Did you know that Ferrari belongs to Fiat? Porsche as an independent company can't affoard to do that (i wish they could...)
Quote:
Now it is in reverse. The die hards like the 997's but I will wager the general public will look and say " why do I want to buy a new old looking car? I can easily buy a 993 at a fraction of the price."
Good... It's entusiast costumers that Porsche needs. You and the general public (is it that general?) think it's ugly? Great!! Don't buy it... Porsche cars need to be bought by people who know what to do with them. Not poseurs. Again, you don't like it? Then forget it! I'm sick and tired of your comments regarding Porsche. I some times see your point, but damn, if you don't like Porsche, make well fundamented conclusions. If not, just go away and register in another forum... Comments like these makes me sick. Don't you have anything to do besides kicking Porsche down?
Re: 997 speaks for itself
Quote:
But Ferrari customer focus was best illustrated recently in their quarterly/annual report.
Nick,
Who are the Ferrari customer you are refering to? No such thing in my opinion. May be people who want to impress everybody because of lack of confidence... Even folks with official ocupation of playboys buying porsche TTS cab those days. Just ask Moogle
Re: 997 speaks for itself
Quote:
nberry said:
Now it is in reverse. The die hards like the 997's but I will wager the general public will look and say " why do I want to buy a new old looking car? I can easily buy a 993 at a fraction of the price."
Remember my words, Nick: you'll lick your fingers about the new 997 S when you see it for the first time.
And it even comes better: the new 997 Turbo will kick a.., I can assure you that. If you don't get yourself an Enzo soon, you'll look pretty stupid in your 360 or even the F430.
Not only that it has spectacular performance, it looks absolutely fantastic.
Or to use the words of an engineer: every Porsche owner should own a Ferrari too but for Ferrari owners, owning a Porsche too is a MUST.
But to satisfy your Ego: he also said that the only super sportscar Porsche engineers take serious and actually consider a competitor to the CGT is the Enzo, not the SLR.
But the CGT is not only cheaper, it is very suitable as a daily driver. One engineer went out in a CGT to get his lunch.
Re: 997 speaks for itself
Quote:
RC said:
And it even comes better: the new 997 Turbo will kick a.., I can assure you that. If you don't get yourself an Enzo soon, you'll look pretty stupid in your 360 or even the F430.
Not only that it has spectacular performance, it looks absolutely fantastic.
That does sound very, very good... Assuming that you (as always) have some good inside knowledge behind this statement
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