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    Mayor of London/UK calls Cayenne owners "complete Idiots"

    "Red Ken" said that SUV drivers are complete idiots, somebody who brings the kids to school in a SUV is a complete idiot, SUVs are only status symbols and they don't belong in the city.

    And now the French want to ban SUVs and heavier cars with higher fuel consumption from Paris and other cities by asking a special tax for them.
    Now the interesting part: only bigger SUVs or cars especially with 8-cyl. engines and bigger are affected, including those with Diesel engines. Interesting: french car manufacturers don't have any real SUVs in their model line and especially none with more than 6-cyl. engines.
    At the same time, buyers of little compact cars with a special Diesel filter should get a financial help from the state.
    Interesting: only french car manufacturers offer those little Diesel cars with that filter.

    Now this is what I call clever, supporting the own car industry by making the public believe the state is doing something for the environment.

    I don't get it: the state is earning so much money from fuel tax, so if a SUV uses more fuel, the driver pays more taxes.
    I think this is the best way to make people "pay" for environmental damages.
    And to be serious: the whole environmental discussion is actually only a kind of "excuse" for hidden envy. Yes, I know a lot of people who do something for keeping the environment clean and I have all my respect for them, especially when they go to work by bycicle every day for a total of 20 km and more. But I never understand how somebody who is smoking, can care about a clean environment.

    I can't hide the feeling that, especially in Europe, the whole rich-poor discussion started all over again, maybe because the economy isn't going too well and politicians fear more and more the "masses".
    It is funny: I pay a pretty huge amount of taxes every year, not to speak about fuel taxes for supporting people who probably don't pay even 10% of the taxes I pay, who might not even work at all or work illegally and then those people have the right to "tell" me what to do and what not?

    Oh boy, honestly, Europe sucks more and more.

    Re: Mayor of London/UK calls Cayenne owners "complete Idiots

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/06/10/france.suvs/index.html

    Re: Mayor of London/UK calls Cayenne owners "complete Idiots

    Quote:
    carlos fromspain said:
    http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/06/10/france.suvs/index.html



    Oh boy, check this link:
    http://www.cnn.com/POLLSERVER/results/11408.content.html

    I bet 90% of the people they asked never drove (in) a SUV.

    I suggest banning mob support seeking idiot politicians and sensation hungry journalists from their jobs.

    But I have to admit that the anti-SUV movement seems to have started in Europe too. Judging from the comments of various interest groups, press reports and people I spoke to (friends, family, business, etc.), I'd say that the main reason for the "hate" against SUVs is not related to the environment.
    First they start the "SUVs are unsafe" bla bla talking and then, after I prove them wrong, they start with high fuel consumption. Finally we end up talking about how expensive those SUVs are, that wealthy people just use them as a status symbol to drive in it alone and that they are sooooooo expensive and a Minivan would do it to for family purposes.
    In a few years, people start to ban Rolex watches, expensive laptops, Cartier jewels, phones with too many features and hopefully...STUPIDITY and ENVY.

    I didn't "escape" a communist totalitarian regime to find myself back to where I started from.
    This is why Europe will be in serious trouble sooner or later regarding the economy: people care way too much what the neighbor is earning but they don't care about their own jobs and what they could do to improve their financial situation.

    Sorry for the slightly "off-topic" post but I'm really mad.

    Re: Mayor of London/UK calls Cayenne owners "complete Idiots

    I totally agree with you RC. It all comes from jealousy and low self esteem that causes that. I shall say that we're more fortunate in the states compare to Europe in a sense that you rarely see any obvious blow-to-the-head jealousy from others, or at least this is my observation.

    You guys need to move here

    Re: Mayor of London/UK calls Cayenne owners "complete Idiots

    Quote:
    RC said:
    I suggest banning mob support seeking idiot politicians and sensation hungry journalists from their jobs.



    but don't complain though, seems you guys will get a goverment change pretty soon that will also have the balls to initiate the necesary economic reforms germany needs right now... we have 4 years to go here, and that "envyous crowd" is exactly the one that these european populist polititians cater to

    After the SUVs, they will go for those "sportcars" with arguments like "why should they be able to reach such high speeds and HP's if the street limit is only 120km/h?... let put speed limiters on all cars!!!"

    Re: Mayor of London/UK calls Cayenne owners "complete Idiots

    Carlos, I hope you're right but I wouldn't be too sure.
    The current leftist government almost lost the last elections but thanks to George Bush, the Afghanistan war and the war threats against Iraq, they surprisingly won again.
    We Germans seem to forget that we already had a couple of dozend of victims (WTC, Afghanistan, Tunisia, Iraq) thanks to terror attacks. But of course as long as we sleep well in our own four walls, what do we care about the rest of the world?!

    The media is always to blame for "controlling" the people and their opinions and sometimes it is shocking to see a change in public opinion over night. This worries me a lot, to be at the "mercy" of the mob and the media. Sad but maybe the price one has to pay for democracy and freedom.
    But funny enough, it is always the mob who asks for less freedom but more democracy...if you understand what I mean. Enough politics, we deviated too far again.

    Re: Mayor of London/UK calls Cayenne owners "complete Idiots

    But why DO you need SUVs in a city?:)
    I'm serious, a smaller car would be much easier to throw around in a city..
    The 'interior space' argument is somehow wrong, you need space to change the diapers while driving to a pub? :d

    Re: Mayor of London/UK calls Cayenne owners "complete Idiots

    You are right, back to the subject of Paris and banning SUV's... did you know that in France motorbikes with more than 100HP are banned? if you want an 160HP GSX-R1000 or R1, it needs to be limited to 100HP first
    I'm all for limiting HP on novice riders in their first years after getting their dirvers licence but this is another ridiculous example, aparently those same french polititians think their citizens are not intelligent, mature or skilled enough to drive 160HP bikes at their own risk

    But I don't think the inner city SUV ban can happen at all, they can push makers to design more pedestrian-impact and car-impact friendly SUVs, or stricter emission regulation, or special taxes for extreme sized civilian vehicles, etc. which are not bad ideas IMO, but just banning them is imposible.

    You know that the lack of speed limits on the autobahn will evnetually come next, especially the more unified europe and their laws get

    Re: Mayor of London/UK calls Cayenne owners "complete Idiots

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    But why DO you need SUVs in a city?:)
    I'm serious, a smaller car would be much easier to throw around in a city..
    The 'interior space' argument is somehow wrong, you need space to change the diapers while driving to a pub? :d



    Do you have kids? I doubt it.
    A smaller car is easier to throw around the city? I doubt it.
    Most small cars don't have power steering, a Dacia or little Renault definetely feels worse to "throw" around a city than my Cayenne.
    Parking space? Well, there isn't much difference bettwen a small car and the Cayenne since one whole parking lot is gone anyway, no matter if I drive a Cayenne or a Smart.
    And a last thing: what about people who have only ONE car? Do they need to buy a second one because they need a small one for the city?
    What about sports cars? Do you need 500 HP in the city?
    What about four wheels? Do you need four wheels or would two be sufficient?
    How about forcing all people to drive in the city by bycicle only? Or using the public transportation only, no private vehicles of any kind? How would you feel?

    But to make it short: I can't afford owning a Cayenne Turbo and let's say a sports car which would be fun to drive and a little bit smaller. What do you want to do? To forbid me to drive a car I need? And who are you or anybody else to tell me what car I need or what car I should drive?
    Do I care about how you're dressed? Maybe I don't like your hairstyle? Or maybe I don't like the music you like, do I have to listen to the same music too?

    I agree only about one thing: SUVs eat too much fuel, there is no doubt about it. But let me see again: my Cayenne uses unleaded fuel and meets the most strict emissions laws worldwide. A 10 year old Dacia or even a 5 year old small compact car pollutes the environment much more.

    It will be always the same with people: why do you need such a big car? Why do you need such a fast car? Why do you need such a powerful car? Why do you need such an expensive watch? Why do you need to stay in a 5-star hotel? Why do you need to buy Beluga caviar? Why do you need to buy a Valentino dress if a H&M dress does it too? Why...
    Well, the answer is simple: because I WANT it. It is MY choice and my FREEDOM of choice. Nobody has the right to judge me what I do with my hard earned money. I don't steal it, I don't kill or harm anybody, I work hard, I have two kids and still find time to have sleepless nights on this forum and I love life because it can be so damn beautiful if you learned the ugly parts too.
    And I don't smoke...just in case. I hate those hardcore environmentalists/greens who sit around a large table judging people who drive big cars or doing some smarta.. talking about pollution and cancer rates and at the same time they're smoking 20 cigarettes in three hours.

    So whenver somebody asks me WHY, I answer with one short sentence: because I want to.

    Re: Mayor of London/UK calls Cayenne owners "complete Idiots

    Quote:
    carlos fromspain said:
    You know that the lack of speed limits on the autobahn will evnetually come next, especially the more unified europe and their laws get



    I'm afraid this is gonna happen sooner or later, even if the conservatives win the elections over here.
    A speed limit would be a pure political decision in Germany.
    The german car industry apparently keeps the pressure high to avoid such a speed limit but sooner or later, it'll come.
    And you want me to tell you when it'll come? Simple. When fuel prices will be rocket high to justify the speed limit with environmental issues. But the truth will be: they don't want wealthy people to drive around at 200 kph while other people have to leave their car home or drive at 100-120 kph to keep the fuel consumption low.
    C'mon, this is how life is. Some have more, some have less. There is no need to make all people equal, this would be very boring. And if so, I want a Yacht, a bigger house and maybe a private plane too. If Bill Gates has it, why not me?

    Re: Mayor of London/UK calls Cayenne owners "complete Idiots

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    brunner said:
    But why DO you need SUVs in a city?:)
    I'm serious, a smaller car would be much easier to throw around in a city..
    The 'interior space' argument is somehow wrong, you need space to change the diapers while driving to a pub?

    RC said
    Do you have kids? I doubt it.





    I'm with you RC. You cannot introduce rationality in to car buying, particularly high performance vehicles. I do have a child, and I'm a Porsche fan, so the Cayenne is a natural choice. As for the Mayor of London he himself is a headline grabbing idiot. He doesn't just hate SUV's, he is waging a war on all car driver's. I now have to pay Pounds5 a day just to go to work thanks to his congestion charge. Don't believe the propaganda, there has been very little reduction in traffic in central London. My journey time is now actually longer as I get stuck on the periphery of the congestion charge zone amongst all the people trying to avoid paying the Pounds5. BTW in town I get pretty much the same fuel consumption from the Cayenne as I to from my 996.

    Re: Mayor of London/UK calls Cayenne owners "complete Idiots

    I was in London last week and noticed all the 2-3 ton Bentleys and Rolls Royces. Then there were the 2.5-3 ton Aston Martins, Jags, Merc Benz, Audi, BMW. Why does the Mayor stop with SUV's and not ban the rest? Maybe because some of the old buddies drive these?! I wonder if his friends know that he is calling them "Complete idiots". I saw a few SUV, but nothing compared to the US. We have way too many here and now the safety issue is making the evening news all the time. The biggest problem we have is the housewife that thinks she can drive this like a regular car. I am always being passed by them while they are talking on the phone doing 80-95 mph. I live in South Florida where we have drivers from all over the world, all with different driving styles. It gets crazy here from time to time. I have noticed in the last 5 years that we are getting more accidents on the highway that happens when a SUV has to swerve into another lane then tries to turn back and we all know what happens next. Most of the large SUV cannot handle a move like this, I know the Cayenne and BMW can, but most cannot. Sales of SUV are starting to fall off lately, not because of safety issues but because the price of gas has risen close to 50%.

    Re: Mayor of London/UK calls Cayenne owners "complete Idiots

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    brunner said:

    It will be always the same with people: why do you need such a big car? Why do you need such a fast car? Why do you need such a powerful car? Why do you need such an expensive watch? Why do you need to stay in a 5-star hotel? Why do you need to buy Beluga caviar? Why do you need to buy a Valentino dress if a H&M dress does it too? Why...



    Why not ?
    Do you have any idea to how many people all these luxury products give a job ? It's makes the economy go around. It's a good thing.

    Other remark : there are already people in my city in Belgium who have voluntarily placed a speed limiter in their car. You can't go faster than 50 in the city.

    So, I think the future for sportscars won't be bright :-(

    Best wishes,
    Rufie

    Re: Mayor of London/UK calls Cayenne owners "complete Idiots

    4 kids + nanny + children paraphanalia + transport= SUV/People carrier.

    Therefore this is a tax on the number of children that I can have, rather like China.

    An interesting article in yesterdays paper is that it is more "Green" for a family of four to travel by car from London to Glasgow than go by train.

    Red Ken is no friend of mine.

    ANd finally, don't vote. the government will get in....

    Re: Cayenne owner calls Mayor of London/UK

    "a headline grabbing idiot!"


    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    As for the Mayor of London he himself is a headline grabbing idiot.


    Re: Mayor of London/UK calls Cayenne owners "complete Idiots

    Hi everyone,

    I figured as long as we're having a multi-person rant about SUVs, government regulation and what not I should voice my opinion too.

    First, every time one uses an automobile, any automobile, we consume some non-renewable fossil fuel and create some emissions that probably contribute to global warming and definitely make the air we all inhale less palatable (although car exhaust is much less toxic now than even 20 years ago). However, cars are VERY convenient, having become almost a transportation necessity in many parts of the world. So each individual is constantly faced wiith the dilemma of convenience versus consideration of the environment. Those of us on this forum probably lean a little more toward convenience (or perhaps enjoyment), but so be it. Others may feel that the enviornment should take precedence.

    Ideally, a democratic government should work to find a way to balance these opposing interests. While many environmentalists and some politicians find it expedient to point to a particular type of vehicle as a terrible evil, the truth of the matter is that the TYPE of vehicle you drive is not an accurate measure of who damages the environment. Clearly the SUV owner that drives 2 days a week produces less emissions than the owner of a Smart car that drives 12 hours a day. I know that is an extreme example but the point is that GASOLINE CONSUMPTION is the simplest, most fair way to determine who is most harmful to the environment. And the simplest way to encourage conservation is simply to increase the price of fuel through taxation. In my opinion the government should have no say in what car I drive as long as it meets the same standards for safety and quality of emissions as other vehicles. If there is too much consumption, simply make me pay more for gasoline. As an adult I will have to decide how much I want to spend on gasoline, regardless of what car is in my garage.

    In my opinion Red Ken had a surprising success in clearing London's trafic congestion with his traffic tax, and he simply calculates that there are more political gains to be made here, this time by targeting SUV owners. As another poster said, no one seems concered about the the Bentleys, etc that one sees driving aruond.

    I will say that the situation in the US may be somewhat different, because SUVs (and trucks in general) are not required to conform to the more stringent fuel economy standards that "cars" are. This seems like a "backdoor" subsidy to the American car manufacturers to me (since the majority of such vehicles are still made by US firms). I beleive that all vehicles should confrom to the same standard, no preferences for any particular group please.

    Will the wealthy use more gas than the "average Joe?" Yes, but so what? There are no restrictions on who can buy gasoline or what they can use it for.

    I agree with RC that many individuals look for someone else to blame for situations they do not like. I think the importance having an incentive to work (like the prospect of owning exactly the car you want, not what the government allows you to have) is far more impotrant in a society than the marginal benefit of demonizing some SUV owners.

    And lets face it, in a global sense this entire argument is pointless, since automobile emisions are going to go through the roof as China and India become more prosperous. You could get rid of every SUV in Europe today, but by 2020 the number of cars in Asia will overwhelm any impact such a change would create.

    Should we stop selling hamburgers because there are obese people everywhere and forceeveryone to eat only tofu?
    Maybe Red Ken would like to take my Fendi houseshoes and make me wear economy shoes instead?
    Maybe we should all get rid of our cars and ride skateboards to work?
    Or maybe we should simply post a check in the mail to Ken's opponent in the next election and send Ken a little note explaining how he should change his position...

    I do not need some bureaucrat telling me how to live. I am willing to do my part to protect the environment, but I insist on freedom of choice in every possible aspect of my life.

    I feel much better now!

    mcdelaug

    Re: Mayor of London/UK calls Cayenne owners "complete Idiots

    Mcdeulag,

    If I may presume to add a line to your rant:

    People in positions like Red Ken's should use them to create an environment in which transport problems like London's are solved constructively by drawing up all-encompassing long-term plans for viable transport systems in their cities, and then adhering to them.

    Instead, they limit themselves to small-minded, small-scale pseudo-fixes, which generally rely on using taxes or other punitive measures to force people out of private individual transport into public mass-transport systems, which are already totally inadequate and unreliable even before they are further overloaded as a result of vote-grabbing idiots' high-publicity, low-budget, low-efficiency, and therefore short-lived measures which do nothing to increase the capacity of the systems, to reduce journey times, or to make travel more cost-efficient for the individual or for society.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that this particular vote-grabbing idiot arranged for traffic-light timing and other traffic control systems to be adjusted to suboptimal settings for the weeks leading up to the introduction of his road-pricing scheme, to "enhance" the perceived improvement resulting from his scheme!

    I'll stop now. I'm suffering from hyphen-overload.

    Re: Mayor of London/UK calls Cayenne owners "complete Idiots

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    I'm suffering from hyphen-overload.



    Know how you feel If this goes any further I'll consider moving over the pond.

    Re: Mayor of London/UK calls Cayenne owners "complete Idiots

    Quote:
    mcdelaug said:

    In my opinion Red Ken had a surprising success in clearing London's trafic congestion with his traffic tax,
    mcdelaug



    Thanks for a thoughtful piece. However, I have to disagree with this comment. Even by his own propaganda the reduction has been a maximimum of 15% after his pre-charge tinkering to make things worse. I am assuming you live in London. Have you tried Edgware Road in the morning? How about Trafalgar Square and The Strand? Awful. Is it worth the Pounds150M cost from London taxpayers to set this up? If there is to be a congestion charge it should begin at the M25 (that was the original proposal tha Livingstone didn't have the guts to implement) - now that would really reduce congestion.

     
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