Crown
Board: Porsche
Language: English
Region: Worldwide
Close
CloseForum - Thread
Jun 22, 2004 4:38:05 PM
-
Carlos from Spain
- Rennteam Moderator
-
- Loc: Spain. , Spain
- Posts: 21152, Gallery
- Registered on: Feb 9, 2003
- Reply to: nberry
Re: From a marketing standpoint what would be wrong if Porsc
Quote:
nberry said:
Carlos, none of those number would indicate the better car. It would depend on the driver; they are that close.
Back-stepping now, huh?
yeah, reaaally close, did you look at the lap times and curve speeds? 
Quote:
nberry said:
To think you guys pay an additional $50,000 for "performance". Really what you are paying for and will not admit to is you are buying the name. I love it!
We have an old saying here for this: "cree el ladrón que todos son de su condición" i.e. just because you do it doesn't mean everybody else does.
When it comes to Porsche, its the whole package of which performance is only a very important part of it. I'm sure you are knowledgeable enough to tell which are those other differences in which the 911 excels well above those cars you listed that make the whole package much superior (but I'll give you a hit, pouseur value is not one of them
)
Jun 22, 2004 7:02:46 PM
- quasi
- Newbie
-
- Loc: NC, USA
- Posts: 4, Gallery
- Registered on: Jun 15, 2004
-
Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: From a marketing standpoint what would be wrong if Porsc
I've been skulking in anonymity long enough...here are my two cents. I have the unique perspective of selling BMW, Subaru, and Porsche. The STi is a phenominal car, especially for the money. It's fast, handles great (in any weather), reliable, functional (four doors and a trunk), and has exclusivity to boot (3800 for the US market). We even had a client trade in his 02 Speed Yellow TT with roughly 8000 miles on it for a STi. However, it is not a Porsche. It does not carry with it the history, heritage, and just out and out visceral experience of driving a Porsche. Ultimately, it just comes down to personal preference. For $30K I'd rather spend $20K on an older C2 and sink the other $10K into making it right. For the time being, though, I'll just keep driving both on a daily basis and enjoy getting paid to do it.
Re: From a marketing standpoint what would be wrong if Porsc
Quote:
quasi said:
I've been skulking in anonymity long enough...here are my two cents. I have the unique perspective of selling BMW, Subaru, and Porsche.
For the time being, though, I'll just keep driving both on a daily basis and enjoy getting paid to do it.
You get paid for it too?
Hey quasi, if you are just going to make us jealous by making statements like that, maybe you should have stayed skulking in anonimity!
Just kidding, in case you should have thought otherwise.
Welcome!
Jun 22, 2004 9:34:39 PM
- Byron
- Senior
-
- Loc: Costa Brava, Spain
- Posts: 573, Gallery
- Registered on: Jan 9, 2004
-
Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: From a marketing standpoint what would be wrong if Porsc
"Next time do your homework before posting."
Nberry, it is evident we talk different languages.
And I'm not an engenieer, but, though years have pased, I think I've still and idea of what is a sport car and what is piloting. This afternoon I spent a while talking about the 997 with whom was the tecnitian of a great champion in Spain called Juan Fernandez - the man that teached me that braking and accelerating at the same time was very useful in many occasions- . A profesional with more than 30 years in top competition expirience. He absolutelly agrees that the the "newborn" is amazing. He's really excited with the figures of the 997S.
And, in any case, I did my homework during many years in the Rallyes competition,........ not expecting that someone makes himself a photo with my car, or driving through boulevards to pick up girls.....
As Carlos has very correctly said, it's not a matter of reading magazines and an easy straight line performance. I was referring to real expirience.
By the way, have you ever driven an Impreza?
A Renault 5 Tour de Corse?
A Lancia Integrale?
A Talbot Sumbeam Lotus?
....etc....
Because I did and know what I'm talking about.
I have also driven Ferraris (355 and 360), and I can tell you the same: Very good cars, but please don't try it seriously in the conditions I mentioned, unless you are a very,very skilled driver.
Do you know what a narrow twisted road is?
Please, I feel you don't have an idea of I was trying to talk about.
Moreover, when you refer to prices is even more ridicolous: Not only because the clear superior performancce and behaviour of a Carrera, but also because its overall quality (the interiors of a Subaru look very close to the cheap ones at F)
But, in any case I dont want to spend much more time in front such "sunday morning driving" weak arguments.
Nberry, it is evident we talk different languages.
And I'm not an engenieer, but, though years have pased, I think I've still and idea of what is a sport car and what is piloting. This afternoon I spent a while talking about the 997 with whom was the tecnitian of a great champion in Spain called Juan Fernandez - the man that teached me that braking and accelerating at the same time was very useful in many occasions- . A profesional with more than 30 years in top competition expirience. He absolutelly agrees that the the "newborn" is amazing. He's really excited with the figures of the 997S.
And, in any case, I did my homework during many years in the Rallyes competition,........ not expecting that someone makes himself a photo with my car, or driving through boulevards to pick up girls.....
As Carlos has very correctly said, it's not a matter of reading magazines and an easy straight line performance. I was referring to real expirience.
By the way, have you ever driven an Impreza?
A Renault 5 Tour de Corse?
A Lancia Integrale?
A Talbot Sumbeam Lotus?
....etc....
Because I did and know what I'm talking about.
I have also driven Ferraris (355 and 360), and I can tell you the same: Very good cars, but please don't try it seriously in the conditions I mentioned, unless you are a very,very skilled driver.
Do you know what a narrow twisted road is?
Please, I feel you don't have an idea of I was trying to talk about.
Moreover, when you refer to prices is even more ridicolous: Not only because the clear superior performancce and behaviour of a Carrera, but also because its overall quality (the interiors of a Subaru look very close to the cheap ones at F)
But, in any case I dont want to spend much more time in front such "sunday morning driving" weak arguments.
Jun 22, 2004 9:36:59 PM
-
RC
- Rennteam Administrator
-
- Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
- Posts: 59592, Gallery
- Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
-
Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: From a marketing standpoint what would be wrong if Porsc
Quote:
carlos fromspain said:
Power
Sti 265 PS (195 KW) @ 6000/min
996 300 PS (221 KW) @ 6800/min
Show me one Sti with "true" 265 HP only and I show you a picture of Bill Clinton kissing his wife passionately.
Add another 50 horses at you might get near the real figure.
Subaru and Mitsubishi keep the figures low because of japanese regulations and laws. It is nothing secret, owners know how well their engines run.
Re: From a marketing standpoint what would be wrong if Porsc
Quote:
RC said:Quote:
carlos fromspain said:
Power
Sti 265 PS (195 KW) @ 6000/min
996 300 PS (221 KW) @ 6800/min
Show me one Sti with "true" 265 HP only and I show you a picture of Bill Clinton kissing his wife passionately.
Add another 50 horses at you might get near the real figure.
Subaru and Mitsubishi keep the figures low because of japanese regulations and laws. It is nothing secret, owners know how well their engines run.
Yes, in the USA, the STi is conservatively rated at 300hp...
Re: From a marketing standpoint what would be wrong if Porsc
Quote:
fritz said:Quote:
RC said:
Show me one Sti with "true" 265 HP only and I show you a picture of Bill Clinton kissing his wife passionately.
Yuk, RC! We don't want to see THAT!
Unless he's smoking a cigar at the same time.
You don't want to know where that cigar may have been.
....not that there's anything wrong w/obese young interns
Re: From a marketing standpoint what would be wrong if Porsc
Quote:
Byron said:
"Next time do your homework before posting."
I did my homework during many years in the Rallyes competition,........ not expecting that someone makes himself a photo with my car, or driving through boulevards to pick up girls.....
Hey Byron,
If you had done your homework before writing that post, you would realise that Nick only drives through the "drive in" lane at McDonalds to pick up burgers!
Re: From a marketing standpoint what would be wrong if Porsc
Quote:
fritz said:
Hey Byron,
If you had done your homework before writing that post, you would realise that Nick only drives through the "drive in" lane at McDonalds to pick up burgers!
Jajajajajajajaaaaaaa
I'd love to meet with all the members in the forum in any circuit in Europe...., including our friend in San Diego...for shure we would all have a very good expirience except one....and for shure we would have a good meal......eons far from McDonalds!
Re: From a marketing standpoint what would be wrong if Porsc
Quote:
Byron said:
"Next time do your homework before posting."
Nberry, it is evident we talk different languages.
And I'm not an engenieer, but, though years have pased, I think I've still and idea of what is a sport car and what is piloting. This afternoon I spent a while talking about the 997 with whom was the tecnitian of a great champion in Spain called Juan Fernandez - the man that teached me that braking and accelerating at the same time was very useful in many occasions- . A profesional with more than 30 years in top competition expirience. He absolutelly agrees that the the "newborn" is amazing. He's really excited with the figures of the 997S.
And, in any case, I did my homework during many years in the Rallyes competition,........ not expecting that someone makes himself a photo with my car, or driving through boulevards to pick up girls.....
As Carlos has very correctly said, it's not a matter of reading magazines and an easy straight line performance. I was referring to real expirience.
By the way, have you ever driven an Impreza?
A Renault 5 Tour de Corse?
A Lancia Integrale?
A Talbot Sumbeam Lotus?
....etc....
Because I did and know what I'm talking about.
I have also driven Ferraris (355 and 360), and I can tell you the same: Very good cars, but please don't try it seriously in the conditions I mentioned, unless you are a very,very skilled driver.
Do you know what a narrow twisted road is?
Please, I feel you don't have an idea of I was trying to talk about.
Moreover, when you refer to prices is even more ridicolous: Not only because the clear superior performancce and behaviour of a Carrera, but also because its overall quality (the interiors of a Subaru look very close to the cheap ones at F)
But, in any case I dont want to spend much more time in front such "sunday morning driving" weak arguments.
Because English is not your first language I will excuse your lack of understanding as to what I am talking about.
What makes you thing you have a monoply of knowledge as to what a narrow curving road is? You think becuase I am not a Porsche fan I do not know how to drive? This is the problem when trying to reason with passionate rabid Porsche fans.
I never stated the 997 was not an excellent performing car. I am sure it is. I have stated it is in a 993 shell. That you cannot deny.
Regarding what you know about driving I will leave to your own ego.
There is no way any one of us can say who has knowledge about driving and who does not. If I was a Porsche enthusiast I am sure all of you will tell me I am a great driver like all Porsche drivers are. The STi did the slalom at speed of 68.8 mph. The 996 which is as fast as the 997 base model did it at speed of 61mph. Now Mr.J Fernandez (JR.)
what do you think of the difference? As far is handling is concerned the feminine Boxster and Boxster S are considered better than your beloved 996/997. Mr. great driver which do you want to drive on a narrow twisty road? The Boxster, STi or the 996/997?
Re: From a marketing standpoint what would be wrong if Porsc
Quote:
The STi did the slalom at speed of 68.8 mph. The 996 which is as fast as the 997 base model did it at speed of 61mph.
Don't tell me your whole point is based on some magazine numbers'..or even worse, two different magazines..
Quote:
have stated it is in a 993 shell. That you cannot deny.
I'm sorry, but it's DUMB to say it's a 993.
It's more like a 996 with round headlights. Does THAT make it a 993?
I'm not even wasting my time to prove with pictures, it's not worth it.
Re: From a marketing standpoint what would be wrong if Porsc
Nberry:
This is my last message to you. It's not a matter of ego, just a matter to respond to rude sentences.
1*.- At least I can manage in your language. Shurely your level in mine is not the same. If you prefer we can continue in spanish or catalan, and you'll show us your fantastic skills.
2*.-I don't have a monopoly knowledge, but with the years I can recognize "phantoms" talking about what they don't know and will never will.
3*.- I'm not Mr. Fernandez's son. So, please if you don't know who I am and who I'm talking about, your worthless and topic comments only add unpoliteness to your attitude.
4*.-Yor last comments about the Boxter are simply pathetic (as usual).
Bye bye "gentleman", continue with your "slaloms" and your magazines......the grown ups prefer to seriously drive and politely talk. There are too valuable people here to loose time with you...now, take the advantage that I'll never respond to you again.
I was not trying to enter a personal level, but you did. And this is not the way I want to follow. And I will not.
This is my last message to you. It's not a matter of ego, just a matter to respond to rude sentences.
1*.- At least I can manage in your language. Shurely your level in mine is not the same. If you prefer we can continue in spanish or catalan, and you'll show us your fantastic skills.
2*.-I don't have a monopoly knowledge, but with the years I can recognize "phantoms" talking about what they don't know and will never will.
3*.- I'm not Mr. Fernandez's son. So, please if you don't know who I am and who I'm talking about, your worthless and topic comments only add unpoliteness to your attitude.
4*.-Yor last comments about the Boxter are simply pathetic (as usual).
Bye bye "gentleman", continue with your "slaloms" and your magazines......the grown ups prefer to seriously drive and politely talk. There are too valuable people here to loose time with you...now, take the advantage that I'll never respond to you again.
I was not trying to enter a personal level, but you did. And this is not the way I want to follow. And I will not.
Jun 22, 2004 11:19:21 PM
-
Carlos from Spain
- Rennteam Moderator
-
- Loc: Spain. , Spain
- Posts: 21152, Gallery
- Registered on: Feb 9, 2003
-
Reply to:
RC
Re: From a marketing standpoint what would be wrong if Porsc
Quote:
RC said:Quote:
carlos fromspain said:
Power
Sti 265 PS (195 KW) @ 6000/min
996 300 PS (221 KW) @ 6800/min
Show me one Sti with "true" 265 HP only and I show you a picture of Bill Clinton kissing his wife passionately.
Add another 50 horses at you might get near the real figure.
Subaru and Mitsubishi keep the figures low because of japanese regulations and laws. It is nothing secret, owners know how well their engines run.
Absolutely true RC, I just didn't what to rub that into Nick too
Japanese allow a max HP of 280HP for most cars with few exeptions, so Japanese makers declare lower HP numbers than the actual. The Lancer Evo VIII for example also has been dynoed at OVER 300HP
Re: From a marketing standpoint what would be wrong if Porsc
Quote:
lev said:
Nberry,
What are you smoking?
FACTS
Byron, you personally attacked me. Read your post. However, I am glad you see fit not to respond because I have become weary of people like you telling people like me how much you know and how good you are. Tell it to someone who cares.
Re: From a marketing standpoint what would be wrong if Porsc
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
lev said:
Nberry,
What are you smoking?
FACTS
The only 'facts' you managed to came up with are some magazine numbers. My 14y.o. sister could do better, she could get some actual driving tests from those magazines, not only numbers.
If i remember right, those numbers come from a head to head test. Why don't you post the conclusion of that test?
Jun 22, 2004 11:46:42 PM
-
Carlos from Spain
- Rennteam Moderator
-
- Loc: Spain. , Spain
- Posts: 21152, Gallery
- Registered on: Feb 9, 2003
- Reply to: nberry
Re: From a marketing standpoint what would be wrong if Porsc
Quote:
nberry said:
The STi did the slalom at speed of 68.8 mph. The 996 which is as fast as the 997 base model did it at speed of 61mph. Now Mr.J Fernandez (JR.)
jeeez Nick, you just don't know how to drop it, you just dig a deeper whole for yourself the more you get into the data. So after all those numbers I posted for you, you pull a slalom test? you must be joking
Let me explain a little concept about slalom speeds comparisons and its relevance in true performance. There is a small detail to take into account before you take the slalom speed test into account: the 996 a RDW but the Sti is an AWD car! hence the higher slalom speeds for the AWD, yet that does not necesarily translate into greater curve speeds in the real world. Check out the curve speeds I posted of the ring and hockenheim for both cars, the 996 is superior in every one!
The slalom speed test is very artificial type of test/situation of alternating consecutive linked full turn corners of a set radious, just like the ski pad test, even changing just the radious may favor one car or the other. So you have to take many factors into account and limits in order to draw valid conclusions from it. In this case, when it comes to the slalom speed test you cannot use it to compare AWD vs RWD cars because that spoils the results in relation to its translation to real world performance. Let me give you an example: which is a faster car, the 996C2 or the 996C4? yet the C4 has higher slalom speeds than the C2... now you know why that contradition
everybody can just compare the figures in the specs and pluck one out of the buch, but not everyone knows how to interpret them all to be able to compare
Jun 23, 2004 12:53:04 AM
-
nberry
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States
- Posts: 13737, Gallery
- Registered on: Apr 11, 2002
-
Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: From a marketing standpoint what would be wrong if Porsc
Quote:
carlos fromspain said:Quote:
nberry said:
The STi did the slalom at speed of 68.8 mph. The 996 which is as fast as the 997 base model did it at speed of 61mph. Now Mr.J Fernandez (JR.)
jeeez Nick, you just don't know how to drop it, you just dig a deeper whole for yourself the more you get into the data. So after all those numbers I posted for you, you pull a slalom test? you must be joking
Let me explain a little concept about slalom speeds comparisons and its relevance in true performance. There is a small detail to take into account before you take the slalom speed test into account: the 996 a RDW but the Sti is an AWD car! hence the higher slalom speeds for the AWD, yet that does not necesarily translate into greater curve speeds in the real world. Check out the curve speeds I posted of the ring and hockenheim for both cars, the 996 is superior in every one!
The slalom speed test is very artificial type of test/situation of alternating consecutive linked full turn corners of a set radious, just like the ski pad test, even changing just the radious may favor one car or the other. So you have to take many factors into account and limits in order to draw valid conclusions from it. In this case, when it comes to the slalom speed test you cannot use it to compare AWD vs RWD cars because that spoils the results in relation to its translation to real world performance. Let me give you an example: which is a faster car, the 996C2 or the 996C4? yet the C4 has higher slalom speeds than the C2... now you know why that contradition
Thank you for the tutorial. Tell me is the Boxster an AWD vehicle?
Boxster slalom results; S 71mph; base model 68mph
The ring times of course favor the higher hp 911. We are talking about some long straights and 8 minutes of driving. On a public street driving in canyons and curved mountain roads where are you going to get 8 minutes of uninterrupted driving.
If its a twisting mountain road I prefer to be in the Boxster than the 911.
Re: From a marketing standpoint what would be wrong if Porsc
I bought an Imprezza Sti new in '99 and have done over 40,000 k's in it, almost entirely on rural, open roads, so I feel I have some idea of what the car is like. I also own F, L and P cars, Race cars, have Competition licence and been driving for over 30 years. My interest in cars is driving them rather then collecting them and I don't think twice about going to the track in any of them.
But I can assure everyone here, that the Sti would give P, L or F cars serious grief on any twisting road. Its relatively light (1240 kg), power is over 300hp and torque is also good. Plus it is compact and responsive. My car is a Japanese spec with very short gears and if you want to give it to it, its very fast. In NZ the car (new) is 1/3 the price of a C2 and 1/4 the price of a GT3. While it does not have the charisma etc of the European cars, and is inferior in some areas, in pure driving terms it is still a very, very good car.
This really cannot be disputed. The other cars are better cars, but in any absolute terms its still a very nice car. I would urge anyone with an open mind to have a run in one.
If driving pleasure is important to you, this car delivers.
PS: I can't speak for the current model as I have not driven it.
But I can assure everyone here, that the Sti would give P, L or F cars serious grief on any twisting road. Its relatively light (1240 kg), power is over 300hp and torque is also good. Plus it is compact and responsive. My car is a Japanese spec with very short gears and if you want to give it to it, its very fast. In NZ the car (new) is 1/3 the price of a C2 and 1/4 the price of a GT3. While it does not have the charisma etc of the European cars, and is inferior in some areas, in pure driving terms it is still a very, very good car.
This really cannot be disputed. The other cars are better cars, but in any absolute terms its still a very nice car. I would urge anyone with an open mind to have a run in one.
If driving pleasure is important to you, this car delivers.
PS: I can't speak for the current model as I have not driven it.
Re: From a marketing standpoint what would be wrong if Porsc
Guys, I am not sure that you are doing the right thing to shut up the Provocateur. At least stop feeding him with new numbers, he seems to have a degree from a russian uni in some serious number crushing. I have rarely seen anybody so eager to get spanked.
Why don't we collect some money and pay one of those teenage McDonald girls to spank Nick while sitting in his F car... in the drive in
Why don't we collect some money and pay one of those teenage McDonald girls to spank Nick while sitting in his F car... in the drive in
Forum
About Rennteam | Help | Terms of use | Privacy Policy | Support | Contact | Imprint | Archive
Powered by
Community
and
