Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread

    Aug 28, 2007 11:28:47 AM

    Jay Offline
    Pilot
    Jay
    Loc: Earth , Eritrea
    Posts: 346, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 6, 2002

    PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    So a dealer (sales) told me PASM is 'almost' just as good as the other suspension options above? Doesn't quite sound right. Comments from those that know please!

    -------------

    Whilst on topic of suspension, I drove a Cayenne Turbo on the track with PDCC - quite amazing the way it handled over the old Cayenne.

    Aug 28, 2007 12:19:07 PM

    AUM
    Veteran
    AUM
    Loc: Germany
    Posts: 1203, Gallery
    Registered on: May 2, 2006
    Reply to: Jay

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    Motons perform significantly better than stock 997 suspension, particularly on the track. But they need correct adjustment.

    Aug 28, 2007 1:44:09 PM

    Grant
    Rennteam VIP
    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
    Posts: 12586, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 21, 2002
    Reply to: Jay

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    Quote:
    Jay said:
    So a dealer (sales) told me PASM is 'almost' just as good as the other suspension options above? Doesn't quite sound right. Comments from those that know please!


    Motons are in another universe from PASM. Probably worth at least 4 seconds per lap faster than PASM on most tracks (if setup and aligned properly)...

    Aug 30, 2007 3:56:48 PM

    frayed
    Senior
    frayed
    Loc: Austin, TX , United States
    Posts: 510, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2004
    Reply to: Grant

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    What Grant said.

    Don't confuse PASM with damper quality. PASM is still reliant (or handicapped by) Bilstein dampers. That is, PASM = active bilsteins. Bilsteins are great dampers *in their price range* but cannot remotely compare to a quality damper like a Moton/Ohlin/JRZ etc.

    Motons are in a whole different league, and offer incredible wheel control and stunning high speed damping characterstics. I have them on my track car, and even with absurdly stiff springs (for street use), it's amazing how they handle the weight of the car and make things that much more tractable/predictable.

    911's, with their inherently difficult-to-tame engine layout benefit even more than your typical front engine car.

    Aug 31, 2007 8:03:45 AM

    sergini
    Veteran
    sergini
    Loc: Italy -Bologna , Italy
    Posts: 1163, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 12, 2003
    Reply to: frayed

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    moton in italy costs 11000 Euro ...but seems they are the best .

    Aug 31, 2007 11:26:36 AM

    Porker
    Rennteam VIP
    Porker
    Loc: SZ , Switzerland
    Posts: 7062, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 17, 2005
    Reply to: sergini

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    Is it correct that Motons aren't user friendly for someone who has them on his daily?
    In the sense that they require a lot of maintenance?
    In that case are there more "daily car"-alternatives for these superior dampers?

    Aug 31, 2007 6:44:37 PM

    sergini
    Veteran
    sergini
    Loc: Italy -Bologna , Italy
    Posts: 1163, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 12, 2003
    Reply to: Porker

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    with that Adsorbers you can low the car like a race car and you havn't problems wih spacers buring the braking .
    For daily cars I think that are better Bilstein PSS with PASM sensor inside .

    Aug 31, 2007 8:48:56 PM

    Grant
    Rennteam VIP
    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
    Posts: 12586, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 21, 2002
    Reply to: sergini

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    Quote:
    sergini said:
    moton in italy costs 11000 Euro ...but seems they are the best .


    There is a Clubsport range of Moton products too that cost much less.

    Aug 31, 2007 8:49:51 PM

    Grant
    Rennteam VIP
    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
    Posts: 12586, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 21, 2002
    Reply to: Porker

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    Quote:
    Porker said:
    Is it correct that Motons aren't user friendly for someone who has them on his daily?
    In the sense that they require a lot of maintenance?
    In that case are there more "daily car"-alternatives for these superior dampers?


    Yes, Motons require periodic rebuilding and you need to tend to the Nitrogen pressure. Not really a good choice for a daily driver.

    There really is nothing that will give you Moton (or JRZ/Penske/etc.) performance without the hassle. Bilstein PSS9 is very good for a street car, but they are not close to Moton quality. It is usually more than enough for a street car though...

    Sep 1, 2007 8:52:15 AM

    Porker
    Rennteam VIP
    Porker
    Loc: SZ , Switzerland
    Posts: 7062, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 17, 2005
    Reply to: Grant

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    Porker said:
    Is it correct that Motons aren't user friendly for someone who has them on his daily?
    In the sense that they require a lot of maintenance?
    In that case are there more "daily car"-alternatives for these superior dampers?


    Yes, Motons require periodic rebuilding and you need to tend to the Nitrogen pressure. Not really a good choice for a daily driver.

    There really is nothing that will give you Moton (or JRZ/Penske/etc.) performance without the hassle. Bilstein PSS9 is very good for a street car, but they are not close to Moton quality. It is usually more than enough for a street car though...



    Someone familiar with Intrax?

    I hear good things about them too, they also seem to play in that league above Bilstein and the other big hitters..
    http://www.intraxsuspension.com/

    Sep 1, 2007 8:53:54 AM

    Porker
    Rennteam VIP
    Porker
    Loc: SZ , Switzerland
    Posts: 7062, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 17, 2005
    Reply to: sergini

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    Quote:
    sergini said:
    with that Adsorbers you can low the car like a race car and you havn't problems wih spacers buring the braking .
    For daily cars I think that are better Bilstein PSS with PASM sensor inside .



    Isn't that what you had on your 997S? Why didn't you opt for the -20mm/LSD? Is a 997S with PSS9 a better compromise for regular trackdays than the -20mm?

    Sep 1, 2007 9:55:39 AM

    sergini
    Veteran
    sergini
    Loc: Italy -Bologna , Italy
    Posts: 1163, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 12, 2003
    Reply to: Porker

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    My car had -20/lsd .

    I put Pss9 on my former 997S but the car was slower on the track .
    The car in turns was softer and not easy to use at high speed.

    consider that I was the first customer in eurore for theese adsorbers ,I send back to bilstein and I put the original adsorbers (with new hard frequences made in Bilstein ) and H&R lower springs ...the car was wonderful and faster than pss9 and -20 .
    Finally they saw to me that my pss9 had problems ,but i prefered my new compromize. .

    I think for a Pasm daily user that the pss9 with pasm is the best conpromize for fun and daily citiy use .
    If I'll buy a 997 Turbo theese are the first item to put ......te car is too "tall" ...

    Sep 1, 2007 11:21:41 AM

    Porker
    Rennteam VIP
    Porker
    Loc: SZ , Switzerland
    Posts: 7062, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 17, 2005
    Reply to: sergini

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    Quote:
    sergini said:
    My car had -20/lsd .

    I put Pss9 on my former 997S but the car was slower on the track .
    The car in turns was softer and not easy to use at high speed.

    consider that I was the first customer in eurore for theese adsorbers ,I send back to bilstein and I put the original adsorbers (with new hard frequences made in Bilstein ) and H&R lower springs ...the car was wonderful and faster than pss9 and -20 .
    Finally they saw to me that my pss9 had problems ,but i prefered my new compromize. .

    I think for a Pasm daily user that the pss9 with pasm is the best conpromize for fun and daily citiy use .
    If I'll buy a 997 Turbo theese are the first item to put ......te car is too "tall" ...



    So if I get it right, you had two 997S's one with LSD, one with PASM (and H&R springs).

    Is a 997S -20mm/LSD stiffer than a 997S PASM/PSS9?

    Thx for your answers
     
    Edit

    Forum

    1. All 

    Boards

     
    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 4/17/24 7:16 AM
    GnilM     		776736 1798
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 4/7/24 11:48 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS     		441521 565
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 5/12/23 12:11 PM
    W8MM     		262683 288
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 3/12/24 8:28 AM
    DJM48     		260821 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA     		85097 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 3/15/24 1:23 PM
    CGX car nut     		5500 50
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/1/24 7:01 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    		 880529 1364
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant     		815663 3868
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry     		390834 1526
    Porsche GT4RS 4/21/24 11:50 AM
    mcdelaug     		389832 1454
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/13/23 2:48 PM
    CGX car nut     		372070 2401
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/3/23 12:30 PM
    Porker     		368836 797
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 4/11/24 12:32 PM
    Ferdie     		289042 668
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    		 261181 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug     		240040 346
    Lotus Lotus Emira 6/25/23 2:53 PM
    Enmanuel     		230179 101
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel     		221125 488
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug     		169101 387
    Porsche Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS 6/11/23 5:13 PM
    CGX car nut     		140920 144
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA     		117375 303
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM     		108514 685
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 3/7/24 4:22 PM
    WhoopsyM     		84086 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/23/24 10:03 PM
    blueflame     		75026 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 3/3/24 7:22 PM
    WhoopsyM     		53575 314
    Motor Sp. Porsche 963 3/16/24 9:27 PM
    WhoopsyM     		24957 237
    Ferrari Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6) 1/21/24 4:29 PM
    GT-Boy     		21162 103
    BMW M 2022 BMW M5 CS 4/8/24 1:43 PM
    Ferdie     		19482 140
    AMG G63 sold out 9/15/23 7:38 PM
    Nico997     		16579 120
    AMG [2022] Mercedes-AMG SL 4/23/24 1:24 PM
    RCA     		13667 225
    Motor Sp. 24-Hour race Nürburgring 2018 5/25/23 10:42 PM
    Grant     		11244 55
    126 items found, displaying 1 to 30.