Crown
Board: Porsche - 911 - 996
Language: English
Region: Worldwide
Close
CloseForum - Thread
Re: Supercharged 996
Quote:
996AD said:
Thank you sir, but i want to know if it will be a daily use car.. and im afraid this power is not real!
did any one try it?
Ben's 996 cab is supercharged. It goes like hell! It certainly felt much faster than my 996 Cab.
As for reliability to my knowledge, Ben has not had any serious issues.
Jun 19, 2004 1:35:14 AM
- Martin J.S.
- Co-Pilot
-
- Loc: Germany
- Posts: 256, Gallery
- Registered on: Jan 20, 2004
- Reply to: nberry
Re: Supercharged 996
Quote:
nberry said:
Ben's 996 cab is supercharged. It goes like hell! It certainly felt much faster than my 996 Cab.
Did he get the EVOMS supercharger? I've heard quite a lot of positive feedback about them (e.g. on 6speedonline.com)... I'm still in "wait and see" position... but I seriously consider getting them. It boosts your 996 to way above 400 hp.
Jun 19, 2004 2:21:52 AM
- ben, lj
- Expert
-
- Loc:
- Posts: 1373, Gallery
- Registered on: Jul 6, 2003
- Reply to: Martin J.S.
Jun 19, 2004 9:38:01 AM
-
RC
- Rennteam Administrator
-
- Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
- Posts: 59602, Gallery
- Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
- Reply to: Martin J.S.
Re: Supercharged 996
Quote:
Martin J.S. said:Quote:
nberry said:
Ben's 996 cab is supercharged. It goes like hell! It certainly felt much faster than my 996 Cab.
Did he get the EVOMS supercharger? I've heard quite a lot of positive feedback about them (e.g. on 6speedonline.com)... I'm still in "wait and see" position... but I seriously consider getting them. It boosts your 996 to way above 400 hp.
Never wondered why Porsche didn't use the M96 engine for the GT3 and especially the turbocharged 996 Turbo and GT2?
Also never wondered why there is no supercharger kit available with TUEV in Germany, at least not one I'm aware of.
Add a supercharger kit to your 996, drive for 2 minutes at top speed on the Autobahn at 35*C and you can kiss your engine good-bye. Have fun.
Ever wondered what adding turbo chargers to the M96 engine costs in Germany if the job is done right (well, actually those kits aren't very reliable either but at least they keep you running for 20000-25000 km even if run hard)? We're talking about cost in the 30000-40000 Euro range.
Better sell your car and get a 996 Turbo instead.
Re: Supercharged 996
some don't want a porky, AWD (w/ more boosted and less communicative steering), and lots of turbo lag. this goes double for the cabs given the TT cab is a yacht. also, 99.9% of the systems being sold are being sold in the U.S. where "drive for 2 minutes at top speed" will get you a free night behind bars along with having your car impounded and license revolked. lastly, it's a blast smacking unsuspecting cars in the 996SC sleeper with TT power and 500 lbs+ reduced weight.
and those are just the non-financial reasons. the way the 996 has tanked, the cost of a used 996 after SC is 35 to 40% less than a TT despite similar performance.
and those are just the non-financial reasons. the way the 996 has tanked, the cost of a used 996 after SC is 35 to 40% less than a TT despite similar performance.
Re: Supercharged 996
Quote:
ben, lj said:
some don't want a porky, AWD (w/ more boosted and less communicative steering), and lots of turbo lag. this goes double for the cabs given the TT cab is a yacht. also, 99.9% of the systems being sold are being sold in the U.S. where "drive for 2 minutes at top speed" will get you a free night behind bars along with having your car impounded and license revolked. lastly, it's a blast smacking unsuspecting cars in the sleeper with TT power and TT on a diet weight.
and those are just the non-financial reasons. the way the 996 has tanked, the cost of a used 996 after SC is 35 to 40% less than a TT despite similar performance.
Hmm, I agree that the GT3 is more responsive and less "porky" than the 996 TT but compared to the 996 C2, the 996 TT is treat, including the 996 TT, the "yacht" as you said (probably because you never drove one?
):C'mon Ben, you're not serious about what you wrote, are you?
From all 996s I owned, the 996 TT was the best, fastest, most "communicative" and fascinating to drive. I owned a 996 C2, 996 C4 powerkit before and drove all 996 models out there, including Cab, Targa and the C4S.
You're right with the US and driving at top speed for 2 minutes but Martin is from Germany, so I thought I better "warn" him before he throws out a lot of money.
But as I said: I'm not aware of any street legal supercharger kit for the M96 engine in Germany but maybe Martin has some new info.
Re: Supercharged 996
"the "yacht" as you said (probably because you never drove one? ):"
i've driven several including RUF suspensioned. they are a BORE in the twisties, but make my eyeballs big in a straight line. my car was a BORE in a straight line, but made my eyeballs big in the twisties. Post SC, it makes my eyeballs big in the twisties and in a straight line. For $200k, after disconnecting the AWD, and undergoing massive weight reduction activity, I might be able to achieve the same thing in the turbo cab.
"C'mon Ben, you're not serious about what you wrote, are you?"
completely.
"I owned a 996 C2, 996 C4 powerkit before and drove all 996 models out there, including Cab, Targa and the C4S."
those are NOTHING compared to an SC'd C2. your comments re: the 996 SC C2 are "(probably because you never drove one? ):".
"You're right with the US and driving at top speed for 2 minutes but Martin is from Germany, so I thought I better "warn" him before he throws out a lot of money."
that definetely makes sense. however, i've never been one for sustained maximum speeds, but rather enjoy speeds between 0 to 130 ish (preferably in the corners). so, even if i lived in germany, i'd still have chosen the same path. you just cannot reproduce the rear wheel drive p-car experience in any of the AWD p-cars - in the corners.
i've driven several including RUF suspensioned. they are a BORE in the twisties, but make my eyeballs big in a straight line. my car was a BORE in a straight line, but made my eyeballs big in the twisties. Post SC, it makes my eyeballs big in the twisties and in a straight line. For $200k, after disconnecting the AWD, and undergoing massive weight reduction activity, I might be able to achieve the same thing in the turbo cab.
"C'mon Ben, you're not serious about what you wrote, are you?"
completely.
"I owned a 996 C2, 996 C4 powerkit before and drove all 996 models out there, including Cab, Targa and the C4S."
those are NOTHING compared to an SC'd C2. your comments re: the 996 SC C2 are "(probably because you never drove one? ):".
"You're right with the US and driving at top speed for 2 minutes but Martin is from Germany, so I thought I better "warn" him before he throws out a lot of money."
that definetely makes sense. however, i've never been one for sustained maximum speeds, but rather enjoy speeds between 0 to 130 ish (preferably in the corners). so, even if i lived in germany, i'd still have chosen the same path. you just cannot reproduce the rear wheel drive p-car experience in any of the AWD p-cars - in the corners.
Re: Supercharged 996
Quote:
RC said:Quote:
Martin J.S. said:Quote:
nberry said:
Ben's 996 cab is supercharged. It goes like hell! It certainly felt much faster than my 996 Cab.
Did he get the EVOMS supercharger? I've heard quite a lot of positive feedback about them (e.g. on 6speedonline.com)... I'm still in "wait and see" position... but I seriously consider getting them. It boosts your 996 to way above 400 hp.
Never wondered why Porsche didn't use the M96 engine for the GT3 and especially the turbocharged 996 Turbo and GT2?
Also never wondered why there is no supercharger kit available with TUEV in Germany, at least not one I'm aware of.
Add a supercharger kit to your 996, drive for 2 minutes at top speed on the Autobahn at 35*C and you can kiss your engine good-bye. Have fun.
Ever wondered what adding turbo chargers to the M96 engine costs in Germany if the job is done right (well, actually those kits aren't very reliable either but at least they keep you running for 20000-25000 km even if run hard)? We're talking about cost in the 30000-40000 Euro range.
Better sell your car and get a 996 Turbo instead.
RC your credibility is really at stake. Ever since Porsche invited you to the CGT test, you have become a super salesperson for Porsche. Many of your post are nothing more than commercials to sell the 997 or other Porsche's.
There was a time we could rely on your Porsche knowledge to critically evaluate their cars. That is no longer the case. You are a shill for Porsche. I hope they are rewarding you well.
Re: Supercharged 996
Quote:
nberry said:
There was a time we could rely on your Porsche knowledge to critically evaluate their cars. That is no longer the case. You are a shill for Porsche. I hope they are rewarding you well.
Nick, I report only what I believe in and there still is enough room for criticism and if you would read ALL my posts on Rennteam, you'll know that where Porsche deserves it, I criticize them. I'm just not that kind of fellow who does sensational journalism just for the sake of getting general audience approval or a hot story.
If ben says the 996 TT is a yacht and then tells me that he drove a RUF suspensioned Turbo (RUF does not have ANY respect from me, this is nothing new...he builds "showcars" for the US and Americans fall for them over and over again), I really don't know what to say.
And then he tells me something about me driving the 996 C2,C4 etc. but they don't compare in the twists but a SC charged 996 is different in twists, this is ridiculous. How can a SC improve steering and handling or did I understand something wrong?
There is no track where a 996 C2 would be superior to a 996 TT CAB (not Coupe!), so I don't get ben's claims at all.
And I won't comment on the lower speed "allegation" because I bet I could outrun 90% of the so called wannabee-track drivers in my Cayenne Turbo on most tracks.
Sometimes I really believe that people get angry or upset if I don't agree with their choices or their beliefs.
There has been a discussion about SC/turbo charged M96 engines a long time ago and no serious Tuner who wants to build high quality products uses a SC on the M96.
Even the turbo charged M96 engines have their flaws and can't be recommended for driving under extreme conditions.
And I'm sorry if I gave the impression that high speed driving is the only thing I care about but people who know me, especially those who know me personally, know that this isn't the case.
Ben still owes me an explenation how a SC improves a 996 C2's handling capabilities in twists and curves but sorry, I still can't take that seriously.
Re: Supercharged 996
"And then he tells me something about me driving the 996 C2,C4 etc. but they don't compare in the twists but a SC charged 996 is different in twists, this is ridiculous. How can a SC improve steering and handling or did I understand something wrong?"
re-read it rc. i said the 996 was already a blast in the twisties (ie: big eyeballs) but was a bore in a straight line - PRE SC, but was a blast in a straight line after. i never said anything about the SC improving the handling.
"There is no track where a 996 C2 would be superior to a 996 TT CAB (not Coupe!)"
every track would have an SC 996 C2 eating up a 996 TT Cab (or coupe). the 500 to 700 lb (coupe to cab) weight penalty given both cars are equally powered is not something the TT can recover from.
re-read it rc. i said the 996 was already a blast in the twisties (ie: big eyeballs) but was a bore in a straight line - PRE SC, but was a blast in a straight line after. i never said anything about the SC improving the handling.
"There is no track where a 996 C2 would be superior to a 996 TT CAB (not Coupe!)"
every track would have an SC 996 C2 eating up a 996 TT Cab (or coupe). the 500 to 700 lb (coupe to cab) weight penalty given both cars are equally powered is not something the TT can recover from.
Re: Supercharged 996
Quote:
ben, lj said:
every track would have an SC 996 C2 eating up a 996 TT Cab (or coupe). the 500 to 700 lb (coupe to cab) weight penalty given both cars are equally powered is not something the TT can recover from.
ben, I'm sorry but you try to ignore reality.
Maybe the 996 TT/TT Cabs you saw competing against a 996 C2 had drivers who didn't know how to drive?
We're talking about stock TT Cabs and stock C2s, right?
Let's take this simple comparison on the Hockenheim Ring, Kleiner Kurs. This is a track where not speed or power but the overall setup counts, including lower weight. This is why some high powered sports cars fail here miserably but do a pretty good job on the Nuerburgring Nordschleife where power and torque gives you a certain advantage.
996 C2 (Facelift with 320 HP):
1 min. 17,1 sec.
Curve speeds:
1. Nordkurve 116 kph
2. Exit Querspange 81 kph
3. Sachskurve 82 kph
4. Süd-/Opelkurve 101 kph
5. Zielgerade 191 kph
Handling (Slalom 36 m): 128 kph
Avoiding obstacle test (110 m): 139 kph
996 Turbo (420 HP):
1 min. 14,6 sec.
Curve speeds:
1. 122 kph
2. 85 kph
3. 88 kph
4. 107 kph
5. 195 kph
Handling (Slalom 36 m): 128 kph
Obstacle avoiding test (110 m): 139 kph
Now look at the handling test and obstacle avoiding test and you see the same speed for both cars but the Turbo is much heavier. This is actually where your "theory" falls apart, ben.
As a comparison:
the 996 Turbo Cab (also 420 HP) does Hockenheim Kleiner Kurs in 1 min. 15,2 sec.
To make it short: the 996 C2 is not superior to the 996 TT or even the 996 TT Cab in twists and turns and due to the higher power and more torque, not to forget the AWD, both Turbo models outrun the 996 C2 on most tracks. Of course we're talking about non-modified stock cars. And if you argue with a modified suspension and your SC, I can take a 996 TT with X50 engine and the nice X73 sport suspension and there you go again.
Or I just let master Schmirler get me 560 HP in a Turbo, keep the X73 and drive the hell out of any stock GT3 or GT2 out there.
And if you think my numbers are too theoretical, I saw a lot of Turbos and C2s compete against each other but I never saw a C2 to be faster...unless the Turbo driver didn't know how to drive.
But of course my arguments won't change anything, right?!
I agree, SC 996 C2s are the best buy and RUF is the best Porsche Tuner worldwide. Oh, and Nick owns a F360 because a Porsche wouldn't be challenging enough for his driving skills and show-off ego.
Boys, you hear from me whatever you want to hear. Peace.
Re: Supercharged 996
"We're talking about stock TT Cabs and stock C2s, right?"
with "Superchared 996" being THE subject of this thread, no that is not right.
"And if you argue with a modified suspension and your SC, I can take a 996 TT with X50 engine and the nice X73 sport suspension and there you go again."
and even though this is not the topic of the thead, no you can't. me in my SC cab with PSS9s and GT3 sways will cook you every time in a 996TT X50 cab with X73. i would put a similar hurting on you if we were both driving the coupe versions. repeat after me, "same power + pork = pork dies".
with "Superchared 996" being THE subject of this thread, no that is not right.
"And if you argue with a modified suspension and your SC, I can take a 996 TT with X50 engine and the nice X73 sport suspension and there you go again."
and even though this is not the topic of the thead, no you can't. me in my SC cab with PSS9s and GT3 sways will cook you every time in a 996TT X50 cab with X73. i would put a similar hurting on you if we were both driving the coupe versions. repeat after me, "same power + pork = pork dies".
Re: Supercharged 996
Quote:
ben, lj said:
"We're talking about stock TT Cabs and stock C2s, right?"
with "Superchared 996" being THE subject of this thread, no that is not right.
Aha, so you claim again that the SC improves handling?
PSS9 and GT3 sway bars? Wow, I'm impressed.
ben, whenever you're in Germany, give me a call.
I don't know how to make you take your SC Cab with you but I can show you some 996 TT with X50 and X73 which make stock GT3s look pretty bad.
And you don't want to tell me that you can outrun a stock GT3 MK2 on a track with lots of twists?
Maybe we should start to narrow down your mods: are you using stock tires or semi-slicks?
ben, you can modify a lot of cars to be able to outrun a stock 996 TT or 996 TT Cab but this is not the point.
I'm also curious: did you ever race your SC Cab for let's say 10 or 12 consecutive(!) rounds on a track with let's say a length of 2 miles or slightly more?
I really give it up, I say whatever you want.
Re: Supercharged 996
Quote:
RC said:Quote:
nberry said:
There was a time we could rely on your Porsche knowledge to critically evaluate their cars. That is no longer the case. You are a shill for Porsche. I hope they are rewarding you well.
Nick, I report only what I believe in and there still is enough room for criticism and if you would read ALL my posts on Rennteam, you'll know that where Porsche deserves it, I criticize them. I'm just not that kind of fellow who does sensational journalism just for the sake of getting general audience approval or a hot story.
If ben says the 996 TT is a yacht and then tells me that he drove a RUF suspensioned Turbo (RUF does not have ANY respect from me, this is nothing new...he builds "showcars" for the US and Americans fall for them over and over again), I really don't know what to say.
And then he tells me something about me driving the 996 C2,C4 etc. but they don't compare in the twists but a SC charged 996 is different in twists, this is ridiculous. How can a SC improve steering and handling or did I understand something wrong?
There is no track where a 996 C2 would be superior to a 996 TT CAB (not Coupe!), so I don't get ben's claims at all.
And I won't comment on the lower speed "allegation" because I bet I could outrun 90% of the so called wannabee-track drivers in my Cayenne Turbo on most tracks.
Sometimes I really believe that people get angry or upset if I don't agree with their choices or their beliefs.
There has been a discussion about SC/turbo charged M96 engines a long time ago and no serious Tuner who wants to build high quality products uses a SC on the M96.
Even the turbo charged M96 engines have their flaws and can't be recommended for driving under extreme conditions.
And I'm sorry if I gave the impression that high speed driving is the only thing I care about but people who know me, especially those who know me personally, know that this isn't the case.
Ben still owes me an explenation how a SC improves a 996 C2's handling capabilities in twists and curves but sorry, I still can't take that seriously.
RC your missing the point. Ben has a SC 996 Cab. He knows what it can do. He is a hell of a driver and is knowledgeable about cars. He has no reason to misrepresent what he knows to others interested in SC.
Your comments without benefit of any personal knowledge sound as though you know what a SC can do. Yours is opinion without facts nothing more. I know you would love to see people buy new Porsche's instead of modifying their present one. Let Porsche do the marketing and protect your reputation.
Re: Supercharged 996
Nick...you're enjoying this, right? Your luck is that my mother language isn't English and you're also lucky that I believe in freedom of speech and free opinion, otherwise my shifting hand would press a button here and there and the only forum you could see and post to would be the Ferrari forum.
Now let me see, ben and I are Porsche nuts and we're discussing a controversial issue. Now where do YOU fit in, Nick? Are you a Porsche nut? I doubt it. The Cayenne S is probably just a good addition to a Ferrari but nothing you really love.
So wouldn't you agree that you let the Porsche boys play with their Porsche toys and stay out of a discussion in which you not only don't have a clue what it is all about but where you also annoy...at least my person.
One thing is for sure regarding Ben's SC 996 Cab: he can outrun your F360 anytime on any track.
Oh and if I don't know what I'm talking about, why loose your precious time reading our forums? Are you a masochist? Isn't the F360 fun to drive, just fun to show off?
Your comments remind me of somebody who talks about sex but never had any. Do yourself a favor and think. I don't help running this forum because I don't know what I'm talking about. Ever privately had lunch with Alois Ruf and his wife or exclusively testdriving his first 996 Turbo R prototype?
Ever been to Weissach on one of those days where the public isn't welcomed? Every sat in a 996 Turbo test mule, 8 months before it was available at dealers? Every owned one of the first 996 C2, months before most US customers ever knew how one looked alike? I could continue but I have to bring the kids to bed and then I watch a nice movie with my wife. Enough said, I'm just loosing my time justifying myself.
When we "met" for the first time on the internet two or three years ago, it was you who eMailed me and asked me various questions about Porsche cars, remember? Interesting, you seemed to have asked the wrong person.
Now let me see, ben and I are Porsche nuts and we're discussing a controversial issue. Now where do YOU fit in, Nick? Are you a Porsche nut? I doubt it. The Cayenne S is probably just a good addition to a Ferrari but nothing you really love.
So wouldn't you agree that you let the Porsche boys play with their Porsche toys and stay out of a discussion in which you not only don't have a clue what it is all about but where you also annoy...at least my person.
One thing is for sure regarding Ben's SC 996 Cab: he can outrun your F360 anytime on any track.
Oh and if I don't know what I'm talking about, why loose your precious time reading our forums? Are you a masochist?
Isn't the F360 fun to drive, just fun to show off?
Your comments remind me of somebody who talks about sex but never had any. Do yourself a favor and think. I don't help running this forum because I don't know what I'm talking about. Ever privately had lunch with Alois Ruf and his wife or exclusively testdriving his first 996 Turbo R prototype?
Ever been to Weissach on one of those days where the public isn't welcomed? Every sat in a 996 Turbo test mule, 8 months before it was available at dealers? Every owned one of the first 996 C2, months before most US customers ever knew how one looked alike? I could continue but I have to bring the kids to bed and then I watch a nice movie with my wife. Enough said, I'm just loosing my time justifying myself.
When we "met" for the first time on the internet two or three years ago, it was you who eMailed me and asked me various questions about Porsche cars, remember? Interesting, you seemed to have asked the wrong person.
Re: Supercharged 996
"Aha, so you claim again that the SC improves handling?"
rc, please show me specifically where i made this claim.
"And you don't want to tell me that you can outrun a stock GT3 MK2 on a track with lots of twists?"
color me skeptical that an X50 with X73 can take a GT3 MK2.
"I'm also curious: did you ever race your SC Cab for let's say 10 or 12 consecutive(!) rounds on a track with let's say a length of 2 miles or slightly more?"
probably about as often as you've done it with an X50 w/X73.
"One thing is for sure regarding Ben's SC 996 Cab: he can outrun your F360 anytime on any track."
that is very true. on a very tight "track" (er: mountain roads) for a couple hours, my NON modified cab kept up with a 360 coupe. and, the driver has much more track experience than i do. he said he was driving the car as hard as he thought he could while keeping it on the road. my SC'd 996 cab with it's current suspension would annilate a 360 spyder.
rc, please show me specifically where i made this claim.
"And you don't want to tell me that you can outrun a stock GT3 MK2 on a track with lots of twists?"
color me skeptical that an X50 with X73 can take a GT3 MK2.
"I'm also curious: did you ever race your SC Cab for let's say 10 or 12 consecutive(!) rounds on a track with let's say a length of 2 miles or slightly more?"
probably about as often as you've done it with an X50 w/X73.
"One thing is for sure regarding Ben's SC 996 Cab: he can outrun your F360 anytime on any track."
that is very true. on a very tight "track" (er: mountain roads) for a couple hours, my NON modified cab kept up with a 360 coupe. and, the driver has much more track experience than i do. he said he was driving the car as hard as he thought he could while keeping it on the road. my SC'd 996 cab with it's current suspension would annilate a 360 spyder.
Re: Supercharged 996
@ Nick:
The day you start writing critical posts on Ferraris you might critize RC for being "biased", which he arguably is not!
.......
Honestly I don't understand the whole confusion here. RC just tried to warn the original poster that installing a supercharger might be detrimental to the reliability of the engine. I think that's a valid advice. Or do you think that such a "profit- greedy" company as Porsche wouldn't use the cheaper M96 engine if it would be possible?
Regarding the handling abilities of the C2 vs TT, let's just compare the results of the C2 and C4S.
According to Carlos sources the C4S did the Nürburgring in 8,16 whereas the new 997 C2 also achieved 8,16.
I doubt that the new 997 is slower than the 996 and with more weight and less power, the setup of the C4S should be better to achieve the same time.
Considering the aspects mentioned above it should be clear that a Turbo shouldn't be inferior to a supercharged 996. In addition you won't void the warranty and probably have a more reliable car.
In the end it's all a matter of choice, but prior to making the decisions one should bear in mind the pros and cons both possibilities have.
RG TL
The day you start writing critical posts on Ferraris you might critize RC for being "biased", which he arguably is not!
.......
Honestly I don't understand the whole confusion here. RC just tried to warn the original poster that installing a supercharger might be detrimental to the reliability of the engine. I think that's a valid advice. Or do you think that such a "profit- greedy" company as Porsche wouldn't use the cheaper M96 engine if it would be possible?
Regarding the handling abilities of the C2 vs TT, let's just compare the results of the C2 and C4S.
According to Carlos sources the C4S did the Nürburgring in 8,16 whereas the new 997 C2 also achieved 8,16.
I doubt that the new 997 is slower than the 996 and with more weight and less power, the setup of the C4S should be better to achieve the same time.
Considering the aspects mentioned above it should be clear that a Turbo shouldn't be inferior to a supercharged 996. In addition you won't void the warranty and probably have a more reliable car.
In the end it's all a matter of choice, but prior to making the decisions one should bear in mind the pros and cons both possibilities have.
RG TL
Re: Supercharged 996
"Considering the aspects mentioned above it should be clear that a Turbo shouldn't be inferior to a supercharged 996"
if a C2 and C4S with a 200 lb difference run the same times, an SC'd C2 with the same power as a 996 TT would cream it as the weight diff swells to 500 lbs. note the RWD GT2 w/ power similar to the 996 TT (and more weight than a C2) creams the 996 TT with only a 300 to 400 lb weight advantage.
if you want the best porsche has to offer in a coupe, pass on the TTs and get a GT3. if you have to have a cab, SC a C2.
"Considering the aspects mentioned above it should be clear that a Turbo shouldn't be inferior to a supercharged 996. In addition you won't void the warranty and probably have a more reliable car."
PS. you can replace several 996s motors for cash before you use up the price difference between an SC'd 996 and a TT. however, no one has yet proved or cited any real world examples of blown 996s as a result of the Evo SC.
if a C2 and C4S with a 200 lb difference run the same times, an SC'd C2 with the same power as a 996 TT would cream it as the weight diff swells to 500 lbs. note the RWD GT2 w/ power similar to the 996 TT (and more weight than a C2) creams the 996 TT with only a 300 to 400 lb weight advantage.
if you want the best porsche has to offer in a coupe, pass on the TTs and get a GT3. if you have to have a cab, SC a C2.
"Considering the aspects mentioned above it should be clear that a Turbo shouldn't be inferior to a supercharged 996. In addition you won't void the warranty and probably have a more reliable car."
PS. you can replace several 996s motors for cash before you use up the price difference between an SC'd 996 and a TT. however, no one has yet proved or cited any real world examples of blown 996s as a result of the Evo SC.
Re: Supercharged 996
Quote:
RC said:
Nick...you're enjoying this, right? Your luck is that my mother language isn't English and you're also lucky that I believe in freedom of speech and free opinion, otherwise my shifting hand would press a button here and there and the only forum you could see and post to would be the Ferrari forum.
Now let me see, ben and I are Porsche nuts and we're discussing a controversial issue. Now where do YOU fit in, Nick? Are you a Porsche nut? I doubt it. The Cayenne S is probably just a good addition to a Ferrari but nothing you really love.
So wouldn't you agree that you let the Porsche boys play with their Porsche toys and stay out of a discussion in which you not only don't have a clue what it is all about but where you also annoy...at least my person.
One thing is for sure regarding Ben's SC 996 Cab: he can outrun your F360 anytime on any track.
Oh and if I don't know what I'm talking about, why loose your precious time reading our forums? Are you a masochist?
Your comments remind me of somebody who talks about sex but never had any. Do yourself a favor and think. I don't help running this forum because I don't know what I'm talking about. Ever privately had lunch with Alois Ruf and his wife or exclusively testdriving his first 996 Turbo R prototype?
Ever been to Weissach on one of those days where the public isn't welcomed? Every sat in a 996 Turbo test mule, 8 months before it was available at dealers? Every owned one of the first 996 C2, months before most US customers ever knew how one looked alike? I could continue but I have to bring the kids to bed and then I watch a nice movie with my wife. Enough said, I'm just loosing my time justifying myself.
When we "met" for the first time on the internet two or three years ago, it was you who eMailed me and asked me various questions about Porsche cars, remember? Interesting, you seemed to have asked the wrong person.
Reread my post. My point is you have not driven nor know anyone that has a SC 996. Yet you claim people should not have a SC in their 996.You argue with someone that has a SC 996, is knowledgeable about cars and describes to you what it can do. On that I will question your superior knowledge.
The rest of your post is petty and I will not dignify it with a response. Use the button whenever you like. Its your forum.
Re: Supercharged 996
Quote:
ben, lj said:
color me skeptical that an X50 with X73 can take a GT3 MK2.
"I'm also curious: did you ever race your SC Cab for let's say 10 or 12 consecutive(!) rounds on a track with let's say a length of 2 miles or slightly more?"
probably about as often as you've done it with an X50 w/X73.
Well, it is impressive to see your SC C2 Cab is still running if you did so many consecutive track rounds.
Regarding the GT3 MK2: if both are stock (incl. stock tires), the 996 TT X50/X73 is slightly faster but practically the same thing in twists and turns. The GT3 is lighter but the X50/X73 has the torque, the AWD and the power.
Weight isn't everything as power isn't everything. Your Cayenne Turbo should be the best example to you.
Re: Supercharged 996
Quote:
nberry said:
Reread my post. My point is you have not driven nor know anyone that has a SC 996. Yet you claim people should not have a SC in their 996.You argue with someone that has a SC 996, is knowledgeable about cars and describes to you what it can do. On that I will question your superior knowledge.
The rest of your post is petty and I will not dignify it with a response. Use the button whenever you like. Its your forum.
1. this is not my forum.
2. are we relatives or do you know me personally? I wonder where you know from what I drove and what not and I also wonder how you know my car background.
3. Porsche not only tests their own cars, they also test certain tuner products, including engine kits. They even have a F360 in their garage...
4. why doesn't the most respected Porsche engine guru in the world, Mr. Reinhold Schmirler, install superchargers to the M96 engine?
5. why did several bi-turbo equipped and tuned 996 C2 never even come close to 996 TT X50 performance figures with claimed 500 HP power figures when tested in car magazines?
Does Ben's SC provide a 200 HP power increase?
And last but not least: You can see from this picture that I really drove them all, Nick. Not as easy to drive as your F360 I'm afraid.
And now I go to bed, I have to get some sleep to be able to continue our dispute tomorrow.
Re: Supercharged 996
Ben, regarding the C2 vs C4S comparison, I only wanted to highlight that the C4S/Turbo has a better setup and hence better handling than the normal C2. I wasn't talking about staightline performance.
Anyway it's a matter of choice and quite frankly I don't understand what this entire fight is about.
RG TL
P.S. What does the evo kit cost? Just curious...
Anyway it's a matter of choice and quite frankly I don't understand what this entire fight is about.
RG TL
P.S. What does the evo kit cost? Just curious...
Re: Supercharged 996
Quote:
RC said:Quote:
nberry said:
Reread my post. My point is you have not driven nor know anyone that has a SC 996. Yet you claim people should not have a SC in their 996.You argue with someone that has a SC 996, is knowledgeable about cars and describes to you what it can do. On that I will question your superior knowledge.
The rest of your post is petty and I will not dignify it with a response. Use the button whenever you like. Its your forum.
1. this is not my forum.
2. are we relatives or do you know me personally? I wonder where you know from what I drove and what not and I also wonder how you know my car background.
3. Porsche not only tests their own cars, they also test certain tuner products, including engine kits. They even have a F360 in their garage...
4. why doesn't the most respected Porsche engine guru in the world, Mr. Reinhold Schmirler, install superchargers to the M96 engine?
5. why did several bi-turbo equipped and tuned 996 C2 never even come close to 996 TT X50 performance figures with claimed 500 HP power figures when tested in car magazines?
Does Ben's SC provide a 200 HP power increase?
And last but not least: You can see from this picture that I really drove them all, Nick. Not as easy to drive as your F360 I'm afraid.
And now I go to bed, I have to get some sleep to be able to continue our dispute tomorrow.
That picture is worth a thousand words and it will be the last word.
Re: Supercharged 996
Quote:
RC said:
Weight isn't everything as power isn't everything.
Let me try to convey the general point of this thread in terms of philosophy. Could it be that the 911 Turbo weight is getting a bit out of hand for a sports car? You know a station wagon weighs less? Perhaps that doesn't matter. However, it does seem that the importance of weight has been continually downplayed.
As weight increases, companies compensate with more power, better brakes, stiffer and better executed suspensions, wider tires, and awd. On a mountain road, going downhill, you might never make up for the weight.
I think Ben would also contend that the lower weight allows a sports car to have 1) a softer, more comfortable suspension 2) more communicative steering 3) less power with similar performance 4) a higher fun to drive aspect
Why is it that Porsche's more driver oriented vehicles (e.g. GT3), are marketed and engineered for lighter weight?
But RC, I can completely understand where you are coming from. Performance around Hockenheim has less in common with performance around a California mountain road that Nick, Ben, et al enjoy their vehicles. Nurburgring Nordschleife? Much much less I'm affraid. As far as track driving goes, doesn't Nurburgring have one of the longest straights in the world? That a car is 7 seconds faster to 180 mph has virtually zero relevance to on road driving in the U.S. unfortunately. Save for Mr. Watt of course. Sign me up for the state with an unrestricted autobahn, California mountain roads, and road courses.
Anyway, in this regard, a rwd "lightweight" turbo (or sc'ed) 911 cab can be superior to a 911 Turbo cab, even if it's not any faster using your objective measurements. Especially Moogle's Turbo S with $20k in options. Must be 3600+ .lbs!
Re: Supercharged 996
Quote:
Justin said:
But RC, I can completely understand where you are coming from. Performance around Hockenheim has less in common with performance around a California mountain road that Nick, Ben, et al enjoy their vehicles. Nurburgring Nordschleife? Much much less I'm affraid. As far as track driving goes, doesn't Nurburgring have one of the longest straights in the world? That a car is 7 seconds faster to 180 mph has virtually zero relevance to on road driving in the U.S. unfortunately. Save for Mr. Watt of course. Sign me up for the state with an unrestricted autobahn, California mountain roads, and road courses.
Well, I don't know how much you know about european race tracks or, if you like mountain roads, mountain roads in Bavaria, Austria or Italy (where some roads are from before WW2 and you're lucky if two cars can pass each other at the same time and most curves are that narrow that two cars can't pass at the same time
).I've been to California several times, so I might know more about Ca mountain roads than others about Hockenheim or the Nordschleife.
And don't forget where I come from, Rallye sports. You know, that stuff where you drive the hell out of a car in twists and turns at crazy speeds through woods, gravel, sand and pretty bad roads. Including some pretty nasty mountain roads.
The Nuerburgring Nordschleife is one of, if not THE, most challenging race tracks in the world. Car manufacturers around the world, including the US, testdrive their cars over there because it is a combination of twists, turns, straights, compression, etc., very nasty track if you don't know what you're doing. So if you think that driving the hell out of a car on a public mountain road impresses me, think again.
The 996 TT has the weight of a station wagon? The new Audi RS6 Plus weights almost 2 tons and even a BMW 5-series Diesel station wagon (the new 5-series is considered to be "lightweight") weights at least 150 kg more.
Weight is important for TRUE racing, where numbers are important to win. And some people might enjoy a lighter car because of the more or less responsive steering, suspension, etc. But it needs a real pro to take advantage of the lower weight, unless of course you compare a Caterham to a Cayenne Turbo.
I'm sorry but I have a different experience in my around 21 years of driving. If you have a different experience, it might be due to the fact that people owning expensive super cars usually don't always have the skills to drive that fast or they don't want to wreck an expensive car and are mature/experienced enough to know their limits. OR...the younger ones in the lighter cars don't have the brains/experience to know their limit. You take your pick.
Forum
About Rennteam | Help | Terms of use | Privacy Policy | Support | Contact | Imprint | Archive
Powered by
Community
and
