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Re: Oil Change
Quote:
fritz said:Quote:
knockoff said:
I know this was talked about previously extensively but I am curious what the conclusions were.... when should the first oil change take place and how often thereafter?
Would it hurt??? to change it earlier than the 20,000 miles?
Only your pocket.
Seriously though, what's the point?
If it was beneficial to change oil more frequently, do you think the car manufacturers would continue to extend oil-change intervals?
This seems to be a peculiarly American fetishism. Maybe nostalgia for bygone days when recommended intervals were just 3000 miles, and engine oil was a few cents a quart!
Re: Oil Change
now that petroleum products are essentially an assraping in a can...
it will indeed hurt your wallet
however, with a porsche,
many people do the first oil change right after break in (2-3000 miles)
and another at the 1year/15k interval, whichever comes first
me, i did my first oil change @ 1 year / 7000 miles
and my 2nd one 6 months after that @ 15000 miles (about a month ago)
and indeed every 7000miles/year hereafter.
this 2003 boxster S is my first car and i plan on keeping it forever, even though i have a 2005 Turbo S Cabriolet On Order.
it will indeed hurt your wallet
however, with a porsche,
many people do the first oil change right after break in (2-3000 miles)
and another at the 1year/15k interval, whichever comes first
me, i did my first oil change @ 1 year / 7000 miles
and my 2nd one 6 months after that @ 15000 miles (about a month ago)
and indeed every 7000miles/year hereafter.
this 2003 boxster S is my first car and i plan on keeping it forever, even though i have a 2005 Turbo S Cabriolet On Order.
Re: Oil Change
I usually exchange oil on a new car after 3000-4000 km.
All experts say it isn't necessary but calle me nuts or whatever you want but after each oil change at 3000-4000 km (incl. oil filter!!!) I had the impression that the engine seems to run more freely. Crazy me? Maybe. But if I get a good feeling, I'm willing to spend some money to get it done. Considering the truck's price tag, an oil change isn't really expensive.
However, I "forgot" to do that on my Cayenne Turbo but I probably have it done when my car is back to the dealer sometime in the near future.
All experts say it isn't necessary but calle me nuts or whatever you want but after each oil change at 3000-4000 km (incl. oil filter!!!) I had the impression that the engine seems to run more freely. Crazy me? Maybe. But if I get a good feeling, I'm willing to spend some money to get it done. Considering the truck's price tag, an oil change isn't really expensive.
However, I "forgot" to do that on my Cayenne Turbo but I probably have it done when my car is back to the dealer sometime in the near future.
Synthetic Nuts
Quote:
RC said:
I usually exchange oil on a new car after 3000-4000 km.
All experts say it isn't necessary but calle me nuts or whatever you want but after each oil change at 3000-4000 km (incl. oil filter!!!) I had the impression that the engine seems to run more freely. Crazy me? Maybe. But if I get a good feeling, I'm willing to spend some money to get it done. Considering the truck's price tag, an oil change isn't really expensive.
So call me nuts too but my practice is to change oil every 10,000 km. in every vehicle I have.
I might not be spending as much as the rest of you to do as I change my own oil (the one job you really can do yourself on a Porsche) and sometimes even personally import the oil from the USA (avoiding all of the tax there is on engine oil in Europe).
And I also make it a practice to have an oil analysis done every oil change. This has proved useful in the past.
I have seen some longevity tests on Mobil One and I really do think that the 15,000 mile change interval in the USA (and even the 20,000 km. change interval in Europe) is really pushing it. I have also seen the insides of engines which haven't been changed frequently enough and it isn't pretty. Note also that when you change the oil in these cars you are only changing 2/3rd of the oil! 1/3rd remains. Another good reason to change the oil more frequently in a Porsche.
I'm curious if Mobil One 5W-40 SUV & TRUCK is being marketed yet in Europe? I have heard that this is a better quality oil than the other Mobil One blends.
Oh, I do think you are nuts so far as feeling that the car runs better. That's purely in your head. I think I noticed a difference in a car when going from conventional oil to a light weight synthetic in the dead of winter but just an oil change with no change of type or viscosity? No chance. In fact, if anything, the viscosity would go up making it feel worse and not better.
Stephen
Re: Synthetic Nuts
Quote:
FixedWing said:
.
Oh, I do think you are nuts so far as feeling that the car runs better. That's purely in your head. I think I noticed a difference in a car when going from conventional oil to a light weight synthetic in the dead of winter but just an oil change with no change of type or viscosity? No chance. In fact, if anything, the viscosity would go up making it feel worse and not better.
Stephen
Maybe. I just thought that some car companies might have programmed some "routine" into their engine software, so when the oil is exchanged (or maybe the filter), the software shifts to a slightly different mapping.
The funny thing is that I always had the feeling of a more "freely" running engine after the FIRST oil/oil filter exchange. But you're right, it could be in my head only, I'm only human too.
Re: Synthetic Nuts
Quote:
RC said:
The funny thing is that I always had the feeling of a more "freely" running engine after the FIRST oil/oil filter exchange. But you're right, it could be in my head only, I'm only human too.
I too have a good feeling after an oil change. So I guess we're both human. But actually, I think it is a "man" thing and not a "human" thing.
Stephen
Re: Synthetic Nuts
Quote:
RC said:
I just thought that some car companies might have programmed some "routine" into their engine software, so when the oil is exchanged (or maybe the filter), the software shifts to a slightly different mapping.
Well RC, they are not doing it yet.
But now that you have given them the idea, from next Monday some guy in a dark back-of-the-lot lab at Bosch will probably get the job of developing a) a "new-oil sensor" - acronym "NOS", and b) a "new-oil-filter sensor" - "NOFS".
If I were you, I would put in a claim for royalties right now.
Re: Synthetic Nuts
Quote:
fritz said:
If I were you, I would put in a claim for royalties right now.
Do you think this could get me enough money for my next Porsche?
I read somewhere that a supplier is working on a precise oil quality sensor to establish exactly when the engine oil has to be exchanged. But I never really understood why a car would need that, maybe to reduce oil usage and/or engine wear?
You're the engineer, you could tell us.
Re: Synthetic Nuts
Quote:
RC said:
I read somewhere that a supplier is working on a precise oil quality sensor to establish exactly when the engine oil has to be exchanged. But I never really understood why a car would need that, maybe to reduce oil usage and/or engine wear?
To optimise oil change intervals for each individual car, thereby allowing for the usage profile of each car.
A rigid mile or kilometer limit makes no allowance for a car's operating conditions. As Fireo mentioned above, this limit is reduced to 10,000 km (about 6,000 miles) in Kuwait, to allow for the effects of high ambient temperatures.
Re: Synthetic Nuts
Quote:
fritz said:
As Fireo mentioned above, this limit is reduced to 10,000 km (about 6,000 miles) in Kuwait, to allow for the effects of high ambient temperatures.
What exactly is the effect of a high ambient temperature?
So when the oil sits in the car, it is at 45C instead of 25C. That should not make a difference.
And I would be really surprised if the temperature of the oil when the vehicle is in use ever goes above the temperature of the oil in our cars. These cars are massively overcooled so as to avoid that.
But even if it did, So long as the oil doesn't go over it maximum temperature it should still be ok.
In fact, I would expect the oil to be better off and not worse because it is going to reach its normal operating temperature more frequently and that allows it to boil off the impurities.
Much worse would be cold conditions and short trips where the oil never reaches operating temperature.
Stephen
Re: Synthetic Nuts
Quote:
FixedWing said:Quote:
fritz said:
As Fireo mentioned above, this limit is reduced to 10,000 km (about 6,000 miles) in Kuwait, to allow for the effects of high ambient temperatures.
What exactly is the effect of a high ambient temperature?
So when the oil sits in the car, it is at 45C instead of 25C. That should not make a difference.
You are right. That doesn't make a difference. The difference arises when your cooling system tries to transfer heat from a water temp of, say 110*C to air at 45*C (differential of only 65*C, instead of 85*C if ambient were 25*C). Rate of heat transfer is proportional to the difference in temps of the two media. Heat transfer rate is worse by 24% under the more severe conditions specified.
So, what happens? Water temp rises above your target of maybe 110*C. Similar situation arises in oil/water heat exchanger, so oil temp goes above its top target value.
Not only does the oil become temporarily thinner due to high temp, it also starts to break down chemically, so that its lubrication properties are permanently downgraded. Sooner, rather than later, your oil needs changing.
Quote:
FixedWing said:
And I would be really surprised if the temperature of the oil when the vehicle is in use ever goes above the temperature of the oil in our cars. These cars are massively overcooled so as to avoid that.
Adequate provision for cooling in the mass markets of Europe, North America, Japan would not necessarily constitute massive overcooling when blasting along a desert road at 200 km/h plus across the vast distances of Saudi Arabia.
Quote:
FixedWing said:
But even if it did, So long as the oil doesn't go over it maximum temperature it should still be ok.
I suspect that oil will be more prone to go over its max temp in Kuwait then in more temperate zones. Resulting in the advice to change oil at shorter intervals in the countries concerned.
Quote:
FixedWing said:
In fact, I would expect the oil to be better off and not worse because it is going to reach its normal operating temperature more frequently and that allows it to boil off the impurities.
You may be right. I also wouldn't think there'll be too many problems with condensed water in the oil sumps of vehicles in the Gulf states. But that would not help if the oil has lost its viscosity due to chemical breakdown anyway.
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