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    May 5, 2007 7:58:34 PM

    nberry Offline
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    I just attended a very private preview showing of

    a new high performance sport car to be built by MB with likely introduction 2010-11. It was a proto-type.

    It looked like a smaller version of the SLR powered with 563hp engine and paddle shifters. The also show pictures of the same car as a roadster. It will have 480feet of torque and 0-60mph in 3.8sec.

    They had the car in the same room as the 430, 997TT, Gallardo, AM and their own SL55. I was interviewed for almost three hours with a live microphone comparing the cars. They paid me for my time and thoughts.

    They had a few other Ferrari owners also being interviewed and we were videotaped together giving our thoughts.

    Great experience but based on my comments and what I heard other say, I am not sure the car will be built. By 2010 it will be underpowered and still looked unmistakenly MB.

    May 5, 2007 8:16:29 PM

    JimFlat6
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    "I was interviewed for almost three hours with a live microphone comparing the cars"

    I bet they got more information than they could process.

    May 5, 2007 8:31:07 PM

    mv
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    So it was a front-engined car ?

    May 5, 2007 9:29:51 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: mv

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    THe engine was behind the front axle but in front of the passenger cabin and the transmission on the rear axle. Sadly the face of the car had the appearance of a Ram charger or Dodge SRT. The backend looked like the SLR.

    I suspect the price point will be close to 150,000 if not more. Neither Ferrari, Lambo or Porsche have anything to fear. But I must tell you of all the cars shown, the Porsche looked pretty stale and uninspiring compared to the rest.

    Jim, they received some "strong opinions" from me. Example; the proto-type looked a like a chrysler from the front and its side view definitely like a gym shoe.

    May 5, 2007 9:51:36 PM

    fritz
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Example; the proto-type looked a like a chrysler from the front and its side view definitely like a gym shoe.



    Sounds like nobody told Mercedes-Benz yet that Daimler is trying to dump Chrysler.

    Could have been worse. Could have looked like a Chrysler and stunk like a gym shoe.

    May 6, 2007 12:21:51 AM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Example; the proto-type looked a like a chrysler from the front and its side view definitely like a gym shoe.



    Sounds like nobody told Mercedes-Benz yet that Daimler is trying to dump Chrysler.

    Could have been worse. Could have looked like a Chrysler and stunk like a gym shoe.



    Fritz, Daimler cannot avoid the stench of Chrysler. They have an uphill fight even after selling Chrysler.

    May 6, 2007 5:41:10 AM

    JimFlat6
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    Nick, did it look kinda like this?

    May 6, 2007 5:46:11 AM

    JimFlat6
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    The Mercedes Chrysler deal was supposed to have been a merger.

    It turned into a German takeover by Mercedes.

    The Germans had their chance and failed.

    End of story.

    May 6, 2007 5:49:06 AM

    Grant
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Nick, did it look kinda like this?




    Are they still planning on using the Twin Turbo V12 from the SL65 in the Viper?

    May 6, 2007 5:54:00 AM

    JimFlat6
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    Grant the new Viper has a improved engine.

    8.4 liter OHV V10, 600hp/560ft lbs of torque.

    The engine is so big I had to delete the picture of it!

    May 8, 2007 4:36:33 PM

    dsts6
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    So was this the New "Mclaren Mercedes SLS"?
    According to what i red however, they were planning a mid engine car....is this the same thing or are they doing both.
    http://www.topspeed.com/cars/mercedes/mercedes-sls-mclaren-ar33027.html

    May 8, 2007 5:16:11 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: dsts6

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    Quote:
    dsts6 said:
    So was this the New "Mclaren Mercedes SLS"?
    According to what i red however, they were planning a mid engine car....is this the same thing or are they doing both.
    http://www.topspeed.com/cars/mercedes/mercedes-sls-mclaren-ar33027.html



    Interesting. The car I saw had a front engine set up and based on the information provided weighed 3560lbs, 563hp and was a two seater. The front nose of the car was elongated almost cone like. The hood looked very long. There was no doubt in my mind that it was a fit between the SLP and the SL65.

    Also, it had gullwing doors at least for the coupe. The Roadster had standard doors. It also had a sequential transmission with the paddles attached to the steering wheel. The car looked very substantial (heavy) and much bigger than the rest of the cars on display.

    May 8, 2007 6:04:49 PM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: dsts6

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    Quote:
    dsts6 said:
    So was this the New "Mclaren Mercedes SLS"?
    According to what i red however, they were planning a mid engine car....is this the same thing or are they doing both.
    http://www.topspeed.com/cars/mercedes/mercedes-sls-mclaren-ar33027.html



    AFAIK Mercedes is planning both, a "small" frontengined SLR as well as a midengined sports car. Which of them finally will be realised is another story.

    May 8, 2007 6:13:49 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    dsts6 said:
    So was this the New "Mclaren Mercedes SLS"?
    According to what i red however, they were planning a mid engine car....is this the same thing or are they doing both.
    http://www.topspeed.com/cars/mercedes/mercedes-sls-mclaren-ar33027.html



    AFAIK Mercedes is planning both, a "small" frontengined SLR as well as a midengined sports car. Which of them finally will be realised is another story.



    I told them a mid-engine sport car is the way to go. It would eliminate the taint of Chrysler and provide a much needed change in the ubiquitous styling of the 400 different MB models.

    In speaking with a few of the other attendees (a total of 50 were invited from the entire US) most were not impressed with the front engine proto-type.

    May 8, 2007 8:19:06 PM

    dsts6
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    Why is everyone trying to go front engine......MB, Acura(NSX replacement) BMW Z9/10, Lexus LFA.

    May 8, 2007 9:19:39 PM

    MKW
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    Reply to: dsts6

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    Quote:
    dsts6 said:
    Why is everyone trying to go front engine......MB, Acura(NSX replacement) BMW Z9/10, Lexus LFA.



    Parts sharing, greater number units sold --i.e., a better business case when you don't HAVE to sell a possibly money losing " halo " car like a mid-engined one , which MBZ and BMW don't have to do in reaction to Audi , since the latter needed that to TRY to get some entry into the " top tier " in the US lux market.

    May 9, 2007 2:22:53 AM

    shin
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    Reply to: MKW

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    Very interesting! I might have some more info about this car. It will not be mid-engined as it is Mercedes' revival of the Gullwing (hence the doors). It may be built by AMG, and the engine is a mild turbocharged version of the new 6.2L V8. A twin turbo version is also on cards, developing more than 700 bhp.
    It will be the SLR successor, but with a lower price (and it will cost less to build).

    Mercedes and BMW can not afford developing their own mid engine platform for only one new model so they're going the mid-front engine route : Mercedes with this new Gullwing and BMW with a Z8 successor, to be called Z10 for the roadster and Z9 for the coupe version (based on the CS concept. It will be a 4-door coupe)

    May 9, 2007 6:47:53 AM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: MKW

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    Quote:
    MKW said:
    Quote:
    dsts6 said:
    Why is everyone trying to go front engine......MB, Acura(NSX replacement) BMW Z9/10, Lexus LFA.



    Parts sharing, greater number units sold --i.e., a better business case when you don't HAVE to sell a possibly money losing " halo " car like a mid-engined one , which MBZ and BMW don't have to do in reaction to Audi , since the latter needed that to TRY to get some entry into the " top tier " in the US lux market.



    Unfortunately even Ferrari goes that way: first 550/575, now Dino. We can only hope that the 430/successor stays the same for the midengined enthusiasts.

    May 9, 2007 6:54:00 AM

    shin
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    Nick, how much different was the prototype compared to this rendition? Thanks in advance...

    May 9, 2007 7:14:36 AM

    shin
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    One of Aston Martin new owners confirmed that Aston will be working on a mid-engined model for its future lineup. Also, they will have more powerful engines which are all naturally aspirated. Looks like the sale was a very good thing for AM indeed.

    May 9, 2007 4:02:03 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: shin

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    The lower picture is close. It had a very similar front but with a bigger MB decal. Also, there was more open space in the mouth of the car.

    Actually the picture you show looks a lot better than the proto-type. The one thing that bother me about the car and it is not evident in the lower picture was the elongated front 3/4 of the car. From the side it really look like a gym shoe.

    They showed as the specifications along with the specifications for the other cars and as a result we had a lot of numbers to look at. However, I don't recall it indicating the proto-type being aspirated. All I remember was the 563hp o-60 in 3.8 but no number for the 1/4 mile. Based on those numbers, I offered the opinion that the car may be underpowered (compared to the competition) when introduced in 2010-11.

    May 10, 2007 2:33:59 AM

    shin
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    Thanks, Nick. Appreciate it!

    May 10, 2007 5:25:29 AM

    WBH
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    Was invited to this preview as well....declined, as thought of spending time in SD was rather unappealing...MB should have done this viewing/focus group in more entertaining/relevant BevHills/LV to get better attendance from CA MB/F buyers (actually, would suspect even a few NYC guys would fly out if it were held in BH/LV)....

    IMO, SLR/Maybach were glaring marketing/engineering flops even pre-launch....MB should just move on.....dump Chrysler and shutter the embarrassing SLR/Maybach brands....

    Know several frequent-repeat customers in SF/LA/NYC/Lond who algorithmically get a new CL/SL and new F every 6-12 mos.....a brilliantly complementary pair of commuter/wkend cars....suspect frequent-repeat customer bases of both MB and F have fair amt of overlap in many major mkts....MB needs to do a better job of knowing who are these <<50yo guys who will each buy dozens of their CL/SLs over next 5-10 yrs; where/how they drive their cars, etc etc; and choose more attractive settings where buyers might like spending a few mins w/senior MB marketing/product guys to discuss their preferences/views....

    F seems to do a great job of knowing their best customers in US....and eliciting (and responding) to feedback re: cars . AMG in US has recently improved greatly in knowing its best customers, but F sets the benchmark. But PCNA seems fairly clueless re: its most frequent buyers...perhaps helping to explain why P's repeat customer base seems notably weaker than MB/F's in US....

    May 10, 2007 6:05:35 AM

    JimFlat6
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    Reply to: WBH

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    "choose more attractive settings where buyers might like spending a few mins w/senior MB marketing/product guys to discuss their preferences/views...."

    Just how awful is SD/LaJolla? Its not exactly a slum. The local super luxury automobile owner demographics there are a perfect pool to draw from to create a focus group to gauge acceptance of this new models looks and its positioning against competitors.

    MB has some of the most detailed buyer profiles imaginable on their past, current and targeted customers. They know their market and customers.

    MB has used one of the worlds most expert market research consultants who correctly predicted several of their most notable failures to crunch the numbers for potential sales of new models.

    For new models, it is very difficult for Daimler execs to accept any analysis or sales forecasts from experts if the Daimler senior managment team has already bought into wishful future sales glory. If they don't like the news they change the messenger until they hear what they want.

    What Nick saw might look hideous and perhaps MB thinks the styling is ahead of current sensibilities/taste but would be accepted in two years at launch. It is probable they have already committed to building it.

    May 10, 2007 2:48:12 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    All I know they spent a lot of money for feedback. Some of the out of towners I am told, were feted very well at our better restuarants. The security alone was something to behold. Think getting on an airplane and multiply it by a factor of five.

    Also, keep in mind often proto-types receive an initial negative reaction because of the newness. I suppose the car could grow on many buyers. However, I do not believe the car will attract the Ferrari or Gallard crowd.The proto-type was not sexy enough. It may get some Porsche buyers if they price it right.

    I was impressed with how MB handled the entire experience.

    May 10, 2007 8:01:14 PM

    Dr. Phil Offline
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    So Nick..they interviewed you for three hours.
    I'm guessing you didn't miss the opportunity to give them a few of your classics: "Yeah, your new MB prototype is ugly - but Porsche owners will love it", or "It's a tough market with a lot of competition. By the way, did you know that Porsche sucks?"

    I am wondering: Did they by any chance give you a nickname after the session?

    May 10, 2007 10:29:32 PM

    assman!!!
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    All I know they spent a lot of money for feedback. Some of the out of towners I am told, were feted very well at our better restuarants. The security alone was something to behold. Think getting on an airplane and multiply it by a factor of five.

    Also, keep in mind often proto-types receive an initial negative reaction because of the newness. I suppose the car could grow on many buyers. However, I do not believe the car will attract the Ferrari or Gallard crowd.The proto-type was not sexy enough. It may get some Porsche buyers if they price it right.

    I was impressed with how MB handled the entire experience.



    So what car did you drive with to this meeting? The F430?

    May 10, 2007 10:48:13 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: Dr. Phil

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    So Nick..they interviewed you for three hours.
    I'm guessing you didn't miss the opportunity to give them a few of your classics: "Yeah, your new MB prototype is ugly - but Porsche owners will love it", or "It's a tough market with a lot of competition. By the way, did you know that Porsche sucks?"

    I am wondering: Did they by any chance give you a nickname after the session?



    Actually they presented us with six cars one being the proto-type and asked me to list which car I would chose from 1-6. The 997TT came in fifth ahead of the SL65. I choose the proto-type third behind the Gallardo and my first choice the 430.

    My knock against the Turbo was very similar to my criticism of the MB. All models look alike regardless of cost which in my view is a no no.

    I drove my Mini to the meeting while a couple of others left in the SL55.

    Aug 16, 2007 3:23:20 PM

    Porsche-Jeck
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing of

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    a new high performance sport car to be built by MB with likely introduction 2010-11. It was a proto-type.

    It looked like a smaller version of the SLR powered with 563hp engine and paddle shifters.



    There is a report in the latest issue of AMS about a "cross-over" of SLR and SL:

    http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/news/auto_-_produkte/hxcms_article_506137_15056.hbs

    I guess the pics in the article are just some "guess-sketches" (no official pics)

    The article says the car (internal code W197) will be launched in 2010 @ a price range of 140-200 k Euro in Germany.
    The car will have a front-engine/transaxle configuration and will be equipped with the gullwing doors á la 300 SL.
    Powerplant: 6.2 L 620 HP 8-Cyl.
    Planned production units: 3,000 - 5,000 cars p.a.
    The article does not mention a roadster version.

    Aug 16, 2007 5:14:19 PM

    Atzporsche
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    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: I just attended a very private preview showing

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    The Mercedes Chrysler deal was supposed to have been a merger.

    It turned into a German takeover by Mercedes.

    The Germans had their chance and failed.

    End of story.



    hahahha, the germans gave up cause the brand is too [beep].. it just wasnt going to work for MB when chrysler is 10 years behind in making cars.
     
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